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Mike Powers Article - backup of Issy's thread

Urbain said:
Again, a massively contradictory paragraph:

''The first death attributed to mephedrone in the UK was that of Gabrielle Price, a 14-year-old from Worthing, West Sussex, who became ill at a house party where she had taken the drug together with ketamine. It was widely reported that she had died as a result. However, a pathologist's report showed the cause of death was broncho-pneumonia following a streptococcal A infection, and that the drugs had played no part''.
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It's not contradictory at all. It's 100% accurate. 100% consistent anyway.
 
knock said:
It's not contradictory at all. It's 100% accurate. 100% consistent anyway.
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''The first death attributed to mephedrone in the UK was that of Gabrielle Price''.

''However, a pathologist's report showed the cause of death was broncho-pneumonia following a streptococcal A infection, and that the drugs had played no part''.

Isn't that contradictory though?
 
No!


OK I'll spell it out. The death was attributed to mephedrone. Which means someone said it was mephedrone's fault.

They were wrong, but that doesn't change the fact they said it.

Something being attributed to something just means someone said it. Or wrote it or even just thought it.
 
knock said:
No!


OK I'll spell it out. The death was attributed to mephedrone. Which means someone said it was mephedrone's fault.

They were wrong, but that doesn't change the fact they said it.

Something being attributed to something just means someone said it. Or wrote it or even just thought it.
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Ahh, righto.
 
True knock, but it is a little contradictory how he lists a series of Nbome "deaths" - then lists all the deaths of Mephedrone and says "but they were all bullshit". What's the difference in all the deaths from mephedrone and all these alleged deaths from Nbome?

I think you hear me knockin and I think I'm comin in. In fact I'm already in your house and coming up the stairs.. ;)
 
No I don't see any contradiction :) I think you're not reading it properly =D

It could be argued that most people don't read it properly, and the journalist should be aware of that, and write it differently, but fucking hell he's only human :D
 
knock said:
No I don't see any contradiction :)
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Why not knock? How can you list a series of alleged deaths from one drug, then list a series of deaths from another drug that all turned out to be bullshit without explaining why you believe one and not the other?
 
You can do it, it's not contradictory. Maybe it's not balanced, but contradiction is not the word.

A contradiction is where you say something which negates something else you've said.

Although lack of balance is probably a worse crime than contradiction! I'm going to read the article again, because I didn't notice lack of balance either...


edit: I did spot one factual error, that the name "meow meow" was invented by journalists; it was coined by some raver kid in Shropshire.

Another factual inaccuracy: "Each gram [of 25i-NBOMe] contains a minimum of 2,000 doses, making it very easy to take too much" - that implies the maximum dose is 500 µg, which is not correct; but he's in the ballpark.

Right I've read most of it again, I really don't see any major contradictions or lack of balance where it comes to mephedrone. His whole point, in fact, seems to be that the knee-jerk banning of substances like mephedrone can lead to more dangerous drugs like the NBOMes becoming popular. He makes a point of the fact that there's no evidence, or even claim, that mephedrone has caused any drugs deaths.

Read these two paragraphs, carefully!

Though newspapers reported dozens of deaths due to mephedrone, in 2010 there were just six instances where the drug was mentioned on death certificates, and it is by no means certain that the drug killed even those users. What is known is that mephedrone has a number of unpleasant side-effects – users can become anxious and paranoid, and bingeing is common – and that it has given rise to an ever-growing market for online legal highs.

After mephedrone was banned, the dealers who had got rich quick cast around for new legal drugs that might capture the nation's imagination – and money. By 2010, the underground online drug culture had gone mainstream. None of the subsequent concoctions has gained the popularity of mephedrone, but the change it effected – of people looking online for legal drugs – is now permanent. Its significance is still playing out.
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I honestly don't see why he's being vilified.
 
I don't think there was a problem with contradiction in the article. Although I can see what Issy is saying about NBOMe-related deaths not having all the facts in yet. The problem I had with the article is simply that it was weak. I also did wonder if that was perhaps due to overzealous Grauniad editorial decisions he had no real control over. The book does sound better... but only have Si's review and the blurb to go on.
 
And whereas LSD will not kill, even when taken in excess, these drugs are disturbing many expert observers, not least because most tabs sold as LSD in the UK right now contain an -NBOMe substance.
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This is quite a claim, source?
 
Ismene said:
Mike has his two-pennorth at the guardian today. He told you he would...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/apr/26/hidden-dangers-of-legal-highs

1. First thing you notice is the scare-mongering "Soaraway Sun" tabloid title - "The Hidden dangers.." not "Millions of people use these and 99.99% are fine..". As you'd expect he starts off listing alleged deaths and health scares they've caused. Then seems to contradict himself by making the point that "All the deaths attributed to mephedrone years ago were fake.." (but all the ones attributed to Nbomes nowadays arn't fake...right?)

2. Then he mentions classic MDMA-style so called "research". Example, "We injected a massive amount of cemfetamine directly into a slice of a rat brain and "it seemed to twitch". Not "We gave a live rat an oral dose of camfetamine, exactly equivalent to how a human would take it reaching similar concentrations in the brain, and...er...absolutely nothing happened and it lived a perfectly healthy life". That kind of useful research would be boring wouldn't it?

Then right at the very end, when everyone has stopped reading, he mentions a few positive things like methoxetamine curing a guys depression and that mushrooms are far safer - failing to mention that mushrooms were legal for a few years from 2004-2007.

So there you have it. Does anyone recognise anything they said to Mike in an interview?
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OK, in order
I didn't write the headline. Journalists do not do that, sub-editors do that. It's pretty unlikely that you'll see an unequivocally positive framing of any drugs story in the media under current legislative conditions.

My main aim in writing this book and this article is to generate debate: why do people take these drugs? Because they cannot, for one reason or another, get hold of decent, better understood drugs. that's why I gave Winstock, a respected expert, the final word, along with Nichols too, calling for legalisation. Those are viewpoints seldom amplified.


NBOMES/meph deaths
It's not a contradiction, it's accurate reporting of news. The NBOME deaths are taken from Erowid, so take issue with them, not me. I also accurately reported the Barker death as it stands - he died from a nasally administered RC. I'll bet it was an NBOME. 25i--NBOME to be exact.

The NBOMEs are a sketchy bunch of chemicals and are, believe it or not, being sold by acid vendors in huge bulk, and I have spoken to chemical forensics officers who have confirmed this. that is why I reported it.

It is ridiculous of you to defend this drug: sure, at measured microgramme doses its 'safe'. But this article and my book is about the way the RC underground has leaked into the overground. Is the mainstream ready for 25I-NBOME? You tell me.

I'm not new to this, trust me. Bromo-dragonfly-a-like chems on the open market are not a good idea, whether that contradicts your on narrative on drugs or not.

3. The research was pharmacokinetics, entirely different from the discredited Ricaurte monkey mdma research. The lab visit was used for colour - a journalistic term that denotes reportage/incident. There was no point being mad, just reportage from a very mad and weird place.

4. How do know how far people read? Your assumption that people do not read to the end is unfounded, and a but silly.

4.1 The mushroom craze is mentioned in detail my book; there is a word limit on the piece.

5. I was balanced and accurate in all my interviews, as you'll see from the fact that no one answered your question with criticism of my interviewing.

Bluelight is as far from mainstream media as it is possible to get. Tryptamine enemas and vaporising MDPV til the shadow people fuck with you is not the kind of material you find anywhere else online except here. That is why I praise Bluelight so hugely in my book: it's the avant garde. It's why I came here to speak to people about these drugs.

I don't blame bluelighters for not wanting to engage with the media, the journalists, etc. But I have not misrepresented anyone, in any piece I have ever written, and my main aim in this series of stories, from PMA reporting in MixMag or even this piece, is to reduce the harms caused by prohibition and to spark a wider debate about the counterproductivity of the war on (some) drugs.

I'll not quote from the text fastandbulbous sent me after reading my book last week, as it was personal, but all I will say is that it was the greatest compliment I have ever received as a writer. So make of that what you will.
 
knock said:
Another factual inaccuracy: "Each gram [of 25i-NBOMe] contains a minimum of 2,000 doses, making it very easy to take too much" - that implies the maximum dose is 500 µg, which is not correct; but he's in the ballpark.
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knock said:
I honestly don't see why he's being vilified.
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I deliberately quoted low on the NBOMEs. I know the dose range can run to 1.5mg and have spoken to someone who did 8mg after weeks caning it and they survived.

knock said:
I honestly don't see why he's being vilified.
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thanks for your words.

the reason, simply, is because i'm a journalist, QED a cunt. So it goes.
 
Mike_Power said:
OK, in order
I didn't write the headline. Journalists do not do that, sub-editors do that. It's pretty unlikely that you'll see an unequivocally positive framing of any drugs story in the media under current legislative conditions.
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I actually wrote a bit about media legislation the other day but deleted it thinking I was stating the obvious.
But yeah, people always seem to forget that the media aren't allowed to portray drugs in a positive light.

What hope do any of us have if we can't have freedom of speech.
 
Mike_Power said:
wrong, mate. I have a source, but it's off the record and anonymous, but the fact remains: the UK is awash with NBOMEs on blotter.
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Then why are none of us regular users seeing any of it? Where is all this vast wash of NBOMe blotter? Somebody started a thread on this very topic just today. So far his is the only experience of finding NBOMe blotter being sold on the street. Am sure there will be more but it doesn't seem to me to be anything like as common as "awash with NBOMes on blotter". Where is it all? Who is buying it? How does it work as NBOMes do not work orally - they need to be administered nasally or sublingually which is not how most people take acid.

That aside, would you say the article had been edited to give it a more traditional media view? Is the impression I got given your own posts here and by the review of your book by Si up there and a brief potter about online about it. Unfortunately such a complex - and bizarrely controversial - topic is always gonna be hard to address properly in a standard newspaper article. I suppose it is also true that I mostly live in a BL bubble and rarely bother with mainstream media drug stories as they are such utter arsewater. As I mentioned, I didn't think the article was shit so much as disappointing. I suspect I am just a tad bit too idealistic about such things. It really should be so much simpler. HR innit.

Oh, and thanks for returning - makes you unique amongst all journalists as far as I can tell so massive bonus points for that alone :D

Pee Ess: Please tell me the extensive use of the term "narcotics" wasn't your mistake. Such a schoolboy error :!
 
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