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Dissociatives [Methoxetamine Subthread] Combinations - 2nd experiment

IMPORTANT POST REGARDING DIPHENHYDRAMINE + MXE + SEROTONIN SYNDROME

Read this fully (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3ASerotonin_syndrome#Diphenhydramine.3F)

I'm not a biochemist but the article on diphenhydramine (Benadryl, Unisom, Tylenol PM, etc.) says that it inhibits serotonin reuptake similar to an SSRI. Should it be on the list of medications that can cause serotonin syndrome? I take an SSRI so now that I know about serotonin syndrome I might stop taking my Tylenol PM at night, although I haven't had any problems so far. CBRQ 18:06, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Don't change any medication you take without first discussing with your doctor. You're right the article on diphenhydramine says that, however I don't see any medical literature indicating serotonin syndrome resulting from diphenhydramine and SSRIs. Drugs affecting serotonin reuptake vary widely in their strength. It's possible diphenhydramine is a very weak reuptake inhibitor or somehow affects only specific serotonin receptors (there are many). The point you raise is logical based on the article wording, but I'd suggest discussing with your doctor. Joema 02:21, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

RE: Here's some medical literature indicating serotonin syndrome from Diphenhydramine as an SSRI with an MAOI: http://meeting.chestpubs.org/cgi/content/abstract/134/4/c4002 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Illuminateur21 (talk • contribs) 10:53, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Okay, great. Thanks a lot for the answer, I appreciate it. I should be seeing a psychiatrist again in a month or so; when I do I'll try to get an answer about that. CBRQ 01:47, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

It's not biochemist, it's pharmacist, I believe. Either way :P, most over the counter medications will not raise serotonin levels in the brain to levels at which serotonin syndrome is even moderately acquireable. The syndrome simply means youve in a way 'overdosed' on serotonin. Your brain will typically be able to work with these things if you have the help of a psychiatrist, but OTC meds will rarely cause the syndrome if taken at the recommended dosages.--Neur0X .talk 19:52, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm quite sure it's pharmacologist, not pharmacist, to which you are referring, Neur0X (I say this as someone with many friends and colleagues in the organic chemistry and pharmacology communities). As for the subject of whether or not diphenhydramine could be responsible for serotonin syndrome, I agree with you, Joema, that there is no extant research to draw upon for inclusion in this article. However, I do know that diphenhydramine was the chemical which inspired the original push to develop SSRIs, starting with fluoxetine (see the History section of the Prozac article for details). Therefore, it seems reasonable to assume that diphenhydramine (and probably other members of the ethanolamine class of antihistamines such as doxylamine) could indeed be causative agent of the syndrome. I'd also like to add that I, too, have been afflicted by severe serotonin syndrome after taking (admittedly larger than recommended) doses of diphenhydramine along with 5-HTP. Wowbobwow12 (talk) 21:40, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

DXM'm manufacturer's insert alerts about the dangers of taking it while on SSRIs. 201.95.194.203 (talk) 00:53, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
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It's not proven, but if MXE + MDMA leads to potential SS problems, then there may be a risk of it with MXE + Diphenhydramine.

--

In my own experience, 50mg of Diphenhydramine after a night of MXE has felt a little unstable, but was mostly fine. This is just a warning. Do not push it with diphenhydramine on MXE. There isn't enough research right now, but it could be potentially dangerous.
 
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ive mixed it with benadryl twice for potentiation and nothing bad happened, but it does impair you a lot more
 
^ Last night I had another MXE binge. I found that when I took 50mg of diphenhydramine to sleep, for a while I tripped extra hard before falling asleep. I noticed the same happening the night before.
 
I've been experimenting with sublingual L-Theanine combined with MXE with pretty good results. Sometimes the effects of MXE were getting a littie dry/shallow/boring & increasing the dose did nothing. The other night I got the I took about 400mg of theanine & it helped greatly- I found myself once again immersed in the effects. This might be due to the effects of theanine on the NMDA/glutamate system & the (corresponding?) increase in alpha brain wave activity. If anyone else has any experiences please share them.
 
I haven't seen any evidence that diphenhydramine has very powerful SSRI effects, I have used it to get to sleep many times on the comedown of MXE and once around the time of the peak. The doses of MXE ranging from 20-120mgs and the dosage of diphenhydramine ranging from 150-200mgs. I would be interested to see if there are concrete developments on negative effects being observed from this combo, I am toning it down on the MXE use but will likely use my usual sleep aid to help me sleep after MXE in the future. If this turns bad on me I guess we have some more data to add to this thread but I will continue as normal.

It is also worth mentioning that I have used it in conjunction with MDMA, and Tramadol, as well as a wide variety of other serotogenic drugs(I am aware that Tramadol is an SNRI). My dad also uses diphenhydramine to help him sleep and he has been on a few different SSRI's in recent years. I am going to do some research on this for myself, if anything else turns up about the dangers of combining DPH with MXE I will be great full to have access to that information.
 
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Please can someone explain why mixing two serotonin releasing agents such as MXE and MDMA is likely to be any worse than taking a double dose of just one of them? I understand the risks of serotonin syndrome, but I think this is often overly misdiagnosed by people who just feel a bit shit from taking too many drugs. From what I can gather, Serotonin Syndrome is a very serious and potentially fatal condition often caused by mixing potent MAOIs with D/N/S releasers (or even some food and drink), but I can't see why taking MXE and MDMA together would pose any greater risk than double dropping a pill - which is something i'm sure most of us have done many times with no ill effects.

I'm not trying to dismiss or underestimate the risks, just trying to understand. Cheers.
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
Please can someone explain why mixing two serotonin releasing agents such as MXE and MDMA is likely to be any worse than taking a double dose of just one of them? I understand the risks of serotonin syndrome, but I think this is often overly misdiagnosed by people who just feel a bit shit from taking too many drugs. From what I can gather, Serotonin Syndrome is a very serious and potentially fatal condition often caused by mixing potent MAOIs with D/N/S releasers (or even some food and drink), but I can't see why taking MXE and MDMA together would pose any greater risk than double dropping a pill - which is something i'm sure most of us have done many times with no ill effects.

I'm not trying to dismiss or underestimate the risks, just trying to understand. Cheers.
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MXE pharmacology seems pretty fucking complex to me. I smoked a joint while fairly fucked on MXE and it blasted me into another dimension, set my heart racing so fast, I was terrified, thought I was going to die.

But yeah I've taken MXE very shortly after MDMA and noticed no issues.

Mixing it with a fairly straight stim (MPA in my case) can lead to black outs and pissing on the wrong side of the bathroom.
 
knockando said:
MXE pharmacology seems pretty fucking complex to me.
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You're not wrong there mate.. I've never known such an unpredictable drug. Psychedelics (which I consider MXE to definitely be) are notoriously unpredictable anyway, but MXE takes this to another level..!! In fact, I have now stopped weighing my doses because even when I do, no two experiences are ever the same..
 
Please can someone explain why mixing two serotonin releasing agents such as MXE and MDMA is likely to be any worse than taking a double dose of just one of them?
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The problem is that SS is difficult to predict, and we don't exactly have studies indicating exactly what it takes to cause it in the average individual (though there is certainly variation in vulnerability to it). And these drugs are of course more pharmacologically complex than that, it's not like they have a single mechanism of action, and they may react to each other in unforeseeable ways.

As far as MXE + SRAs go, enough people have found the combo subjectively unpleasant that I feel comfortable recommending against it, not to mention the more general warning against MXE + stims 'cause we have heart rate/BP/dehydration issues (and subjective unpleasantness).
 
Right, thanks. So It's down to the potential synergy between different compounds with complex, different and largely unknown mechanisms of action, whereas higher doses of just one compound SHOULD be more predictable. Makes sense to me mate. Cheers.
 
has anyone experience with combinations of MXE with other dissociatives?

i'd especially interested in 4-meo-pcp, 3-meo-pcp and NENK combinations (not all at once, just each and everyone with MXE). dangers, suggestions, comments, ideas welcome!
 
I have combined MXE and 3-meo-pcp, my usual dose was about 10-15mgs 3-meo-pcp and 20-50mgs mxe. It made the experience much more euphoric and the dosage of mxe needed to reach a hole seemed to be almost cut in half. This was a while ago though, the trip took on a more comfortable, contented, and dreamy quality. I wish I could give you more information on it but the combo seemed to bring about some amnesia when I tried to recollect the experience afterwards, it is a very potent combo.
 
mxe + dxm synergize pretty well. combining the two seems to create more vivid CEV's. i don't remember exact dosages, but they were light dosages for me. there was a surprisingly clear headspace considering how sweet the CEV's were.
 
i'd especially interested in 4-meo-pcp, 3-meo-pcp and NENK combinations (not all at once, just each and everyone with MXE). dangers, suggestions, comments, ideas welcome!
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MXE with:

3-MeO-PCP; must tread carefully with this combo. Best and worst experiences have come from this. If you combine the two, keep the amounts of both (especially 3-MeO-PCP) low, and do not redose. 3-MeO-PCP seems to have an unpredictable timeline of effect, and as such redosing can quickly get you deeper than you wanted to go.

4-MeO-PCP; never had a good experience with this combo. Could be different for different people, but IME this and MXE do not go well together. I got bad vibes which lasted a long time. Very confusing, very distressing.

NENK; can't say there was much (if any) synergy between this and MXE. Subjective experience suggest that there's little point mixing the two.


Summary: Just my opinion, but I think only 3-MeO-PCP is worth trying in combination with MXE, but a great deal of caution must be used because it's a very powerful combination and can easily get overwhelming.
 
Obsidius said:
has anyone experience with combinations of MXE with other dissociatives?

i'd especially interested in 4-meo-pcp, 3-meo-pcp and NENK combinations (not all at once, just each and everyone with MXE). dangers, suggestions, comments, ideas welcome!
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my girlfriend and i took some MXE and then did some whippits. The cheap ones, mind you. I felt like the devil was possessing our souls and I was trapped in hell for 3 minutes. I would not recommend the combination; though I am usually a fan of getting fucked out my gourd. She called is 'dissociation cubed' or something like that. It was fucking intense. MXE doesn't seem to be the greatest for combos, or for general health for that matter.....
 
^ why not? they are great with ketamine, or any other drug I've ever tried for that matter
 
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