Opioids Methadone to OXY EQUIVALENT

[AlsoTapered]

Methadone is just a trivial name. I presume it's a contraction of the IUPAC name.

6-(dimethylamino)-4,4-diphenylheptan-3-one

In the same way amphetamine was a contraction of the (pre-IUPAC but) technical name:

alphamethylphenylethylamine

I've designed medicines and the first thing that the management ask for is a convenient name that THEY can use. Of course, brand names are the result of marketing teams, focus groups and various other people who don't understand the chemistry at all.

Xanax - Exit Anxiety
Quaalude - Quiet Interlude

But just occasionally, medicinal chemists get the last laugh. Ritalin is named after the chemist's wife, Rita, who suffered from postural hypotension and so Leandro Panizzon actually designed a medicine to treat HER.

My wife is still waiting for me to make such a gesture.

 

[hwbush336]

Regular methadone is 50/50 levo-methadone and dextro-methadone.

Levo-methadone is a mu opioid receptor agonist, like morphine, oxycodone, fentanyl etc.
It has very little NMDA receptor antagonism unlike dextro-methadone which is a NMDA receptor antagonist and has very little if any mu opioid receptor agonism.
Other NMDA receptor antagonists include DXM, ketamine, PCP and nitrous oxide (N2O / laughing gas).
The dextro-methadone is why methadone is also really good for nerve / neuropathic pain unlike straight mu opioid receptor agonists which often don’t fully help.
It also helps to lower opioid tolerance too and is being developed as a long-acting antidepressant.

The problem is however that dextro-methadone can cause heart QT prolongation above certain doses of methadone (100mg+ or 150mg+) and so in certain European countries they prescribe just the levo-methadone, which is basically methadone but with the dextro-methadone removed.
They do this cause of the QT prolongation risk.
Levo-methadone is twice as potent mg for mg than mixed isomer methadone aka standard methadone.

Wow ok so why does it cause the heart issue I wonder?

 

[hwbush336]

I'm NOT arguing that it doesn't act as an analgesic for 24 hours - I'm merely stating that it was prescribed for INAPPROPRIATELY for pain to several BLers who PMed me on the issue. The BLers were complaining that it didn't work for 24 hours and asking why.

So I was wondering why doctors would dose inappropriately. Either they REALLY are that ignorant (which is a distinct possibility and why in the UK only specialists in pain management can prescribe methadone as an analgesic) OR the current crackdown on doctors prescribing opioids excludes methadone maintenance.

I make that second suggestion because I know a US lawyer who defends doctors who are prosecuted for the over-prescribing of opioids. They mentioned to me that they use a simple demographic breakdown of a doctors patient-list. If the doctors practice is in an area with a high proportion of elderly people or in a region where hard physical labour makes up a large proportion of jobs, obviously that's 2 groups who are statistically more likely to need opioid analgesia.

But I pose it as a question - why prescribe methadone for pain? Why prescribe it inappropriately?

In America they don't crack down on Any Mat lol you basically go as high as u want on methodone and as many subs u can get per day .. the tranq fyntinol problem here has made it super easy to get in the clinics EVERYTHING is basically walk in appointments only no need to call and schedule same with the local state rehab just walk in go to detox or residential same day with insurance even without I think they get u in

 

[hwbush336]

It's basically a twice as potent methadone without its nasty side effects. Half life is 36h instead of 24h and the high feels cleaner and more euphoric.

Dam I wish I was getting that instead

 

[Hexenstahl]

Dam I wish I was getting that instead

My doc just switched me over to it from morphine because I told him that I enjoy Levo way more than morph. He was like "here is your script". Got my 6ml, went home, shot 2.7ml up and am on cloud 9 since then

 

[AlsoTapered]

2.7ml is what? 27mg or 270mg?

I've only snorted raecemic methadone hydrochloride powder but the effects were both immediate and potent. Better than most opioids, in fact.

 

[Hexenstahl]

2.7ml is what? 27mg or 270mg?

I've only snorted raecemic methadone hydrochloride powder

270mg would kill me. Here in Germany our Polamidon is .5% the purity of methadone (1% solution) to make dosages match and less prone to error. So the 1ml solution equals 10mg Polamidon. Orally I need 50mg to feel good, but IVed I only need between 20 and 30mg. It's actually quite complex because depending on various factors Levomethadone has an oral bioavailability of anywhere between 40 and 100%, so calculating how much you need for IV is a bit difficult which is why I started low and slow (1ml -> waited a minute -> then another ml, rinse and repeat). I'll reserve the IVing to once or twice a week though because I wanna give my veins enough time to fully regenerate.

but the effects were both immediate and potent. Better than most opioids, in fact.

And now imagine that effect, only in a much more clearheaded way with almost none of the side effects that methadone is notorious for, and lasting longer too. Ideal if you never plan on getting sober like me. Hell though, if you wanna come off eventually because I've heard of cases where some people still had physical shit going on even after one year of being sober and they all relapsed eventually. PAWS will likely take years to subside. I understand why some people in substitution call this substance the chains of Satan, because once enough of it has accumulated into your fat tissue you won't ever be able to quit. The withdrawal is not intense as heroin is, but it takes months and months and months and nobody has that much resilience and statistically they all relapse eventually. This is for people who never plan on ever getting opioid free like me.

 

[AlsoTapered]

Ah ok. I ask because their exists 1mg/mL,10mg/mL and 100mg/mL oral methadone so obviously it IS physically possible for 2.7mL to mean 270mg.

Sensible induction method - you can always take more.

Levomethadone does seem a MUCH safer option all round.

 

[Gaz_hmmmm]

270mg would kill me. Here in Germany our Polamidon is .5% the purity of methadone (1% solution) to make dosages match and less prone to error. So the 1ml solution equals 10mg Polamidon. Orally I need 50mg to feel good, but IVed I only need between 20 and 30mg. It's actually quite complex because depending on various factors Levomethadone has an oral bioavailability of anywhere between 40 and 100%, so calculating how much you need for IV is a bit difficult which is why I started low and slow (1ml -> waited a minute -> then another ml, rinse and repeat). I'll reserve the IVing to once or twice a week though because I wanna give my veins enough time to fully regenerate.


And now imagine that effect, only in a much more clearheaded way with almost none of the side effects that methadone is notorious for, and lasting longer too. Ideal if you never plan on getting sober like me. Hell though, if you wanna come off eventually because I've heard of cases where some people still had physical shit going on even after one year of being sober and they all relapsed eventually. PAWS will likely take years to subside. I understand why some people in substitution call this substance the chains of Satan, because once enough of it has accumulated into your fat tissue you won't ever be able to quit. The withdrawal is not intense as heroin is, but it takes months and months and months and nobody has that much resilience and statistically they all relapse eventually. This is for people who never plan on ever getting opioid free like me.

Are you injecting oral polamidon liquid or is it pharmaceutical grade injectable polamidon liquid?

 

[Hexenstahl]

Are you injecting oral polamidon liquid or is it pharmaceutical grade injectable polamidon liquid?

Unfortunately the IV solution isn't legal for substitution, so we addicts have to use the oral solution for injection. This however is no problem since the oral solution is packaged in a sterile condition just like the injectable solution, so there is no real danger here, except for the parabens that one injects with it. This too can be avoided though by using 0.2µm wheel filters (which I always do), leading to a sterile oral solution free of any additives

 

[AlsoTapered]

Be careful with IV methadone - It appears to produce compulsive redosing in some people. I mean, ALL opioids can do that if IVed but most people who have taken oral methadone don't appreciate how different it's IV effects are.

 

[Hexenstahl]

Be careful with IV methadone - It appears to produce compulsive redosing in some people. I mean, ALL opioids can do that if IVed but most people who have taken oral methadone don't appreciate how different it's IV effects are.

I fully agree on the incredible addictiveness of Levomethadone (can't speak for methadone). I have written an experience report on IVed Levo and I found it waaay better than IV heroin.

 

[hwbush336]

2.7ml is what? 27mg or 270mg?

I've only snorted raecemic methadone hydrochloride powder but the effects were both immediate and potent. Better than most opioids, in fact.

Damm where u get something like that ? And I remember snorting MALINKRODT m box methadone pills and the BURNED LIKE HELL not good at all lol

 

[AlsoTapered]

Damm where u get something like that ? And I remember snorting MALINKRODT m box methadone pills and the BURNED LIKE HELL not good at all lol

Extracted from methadone 1mg/mL linctus. I had 1l and recovered 940mg which is pretty good but took a few attempts to perfect.

The 40mg Methadose formulation isn't used in the UK but it's obvious that they make them bulky so people cannot smoke/shoot them. But I'm almost certain basing out methadone freebase and then salting it back to the hydrochloride is simple.

 

[hwbush336]

Extracted from methadone 1mg/mL linctus. I had 1l and recovered 940mg which is pretty good but took a few attempts to perfect.

The 40mg Methadose formulation isn't used in the UK but it's obvious that they make them bulky so people cannot smoke/shoot them. But I'm almost certain basing out methadone freebase and then salting it back to the hydrochloride is simple.

Hold up u extracted What now and got 940 mg ?????????

 

[Hexenstahl]

Hold up u extracted What now and got 940 mg ?????????

He had 1 liter worth of Methadone, containing 1000mg of the active agent, since 1mg = 1ml. He then extracted it and due to an immaterial loss of 6% was able to get 940mg Methadone.

 

[Hexenstahl]

Btw @AlsoTapered is there a way to purify the L-Polamidon I get from any of the additives without expensive lab equipment?

• Methyl-4-hydroxybenzoat (no idea what that crap actually does and how toxic it is and whether or not the 0.1µm wheel filters I got filter this shit out)
• Betain hydrochlorid (should I be worried about the acidic nature of this chemical?)
• Glycerol 85% (non-toxic as far as I know)
• Wasser, gereinigtes (purified water)

If these things are filtered out by my wheel filter, then thank god, but in case they remain in my sucked up solution: just how bad is it injecting these chemicals? Would it be possible to remove these additives at home without blowing up the whole town, or is a professional lab required? Oh well, I guess all I can do at the end of the day is practice safer use...

 

[AlsoTapered]

You won't be able to physically filter out those compounds but none of them are notably toxic.

I simply searched online to see if injectable drugs contain these excipients and ALL are used so it's most unlikely that they pose a threat. IF their is a form of L-Polamidon, I would also look at what is in that - I think the only difference is that their will be no glycerol.

In order.

4-hydroxymethylbenzoate - buffering agent (to keep solution neutral (not acidic or alkali)
Betaine Hydrochloride - increases oral absorption of the active drug (but normally only important when large volumes are involved.
Glycerol - 'thickens' the liquid. Natural and found in MANY products.

Of course I only looked at English language sites but their is nothing that is by nature toxic. Their is a German-language website called 'Land der Träume' where it's more likely others will have experience and know the PRACTICAL risks (if any).

I can naver say 'this is safe' because obviously I cannot be 100% certain. What I would suggest is that you should be aware that if your current dose still gets you high, your tolerance/dependence to that IV dose is relatively lower but as with all opioids, your body will eventually adjust.

 

[Princess3sheets]

I'm on 162 mg of Methadone how much does that equal in Oxycodone?? Just curious, I have a pain doctor in Ohio that said I'd get better pain relief with equal amount of Oxy then liquid methodone. And he's willing to switch me with the new CDC rules I'm one of those been through every drug physical therapy and methodone is all there is . But i was forced to the clinic when doctors CUT everyone off Then of course I found fyntinol at the clinic because I was around it firstvtime in my life and had i never went to the clinic i would had never met those people its bullshit .

I was done for 9 years and I was on opiates for 9 years bc of illness, multiple car accident and 1 really bad motorcycle accident so when I left my primary I was prescribed for 1 month (but took more) 60/80mg OCs, 120 perc 10s for breakthrough pain and 60 somas when I went to MD. Did that, like I said, for 9 years and all I did was go up, up and up but I went to the clinic to actually get off everything. Finally I left and now I’m on BUPE and I cannot tell you how amazing for me it is bc I no longer live in pain and it doesn’t get me high. Truly it doesn’t. MD did though and didn’t help with pain.

 

[Hexenstahl]

You won't be able to physically filter out those compounds but none of them are notably toxic.

I simply searched online to see if injectable drugs contain these excipients and ALL are used so it's most unlikely that they pose a threat. IF their is a form of L-Polamidon, I would also look at what is in that - I think the only difference is that their will be no glycerol.

In order.

4-hydroxymethylbenzoate - buffering agent (to keep solution neutral (not acidic or alkali)
Betaine Hydrochloride - increases oral absorption of the active drug (but normally only important when large volumes are involved.
Glycerol - 'thickens' the liquid. Natural and found in MANY products.

Of course I only looked at English language sites but their is nothing that is by nature toxic. Their is a German-language website called 'Land der Träume' where it's more likely others will have experience and know the PRACTICAL risks (if any).

I can naver say 'this is safe' because obviously I cannot be 100% certain. What I would suggest is that you should be aware that if your current dose still gets you high, your tolerance/dependence to that IV dose is relatively lower but as with all opioids, your body will eventually adjust.

Thank you very much. I've read that 4-hydroxymethylbenzoate is a potential endocrina disruptor, but it's found naturally in that stuff that male bees make to attract the queen (I think it's some kind of pheromone). At least that is what the german wiki page says. But if it is found in that many products it can't be too bad for the health I guess. I'll just ingest a shit ton of Chlorella every day and hope it detoxes me from all those substances. I mean if those micro-algaes can get rid of PBTs in the human body, they certainly can rid the body of these additives as well...