Opioids Methadone Mega Thread and FAQ v 2.0

[MMT]

Question: I want to make sure I have this right...
I've been on Methadone for nearly 6yrs., for an 80mg. daily habit of OC that spanned almost a year.( I do wish I'd tried other "1st line treatments" first...or known more about treatments... My Dr. said methadone was what I needed...I just wish we'd tried /I'd gone to a rehab first/something else- as Methadone is the biggest addiction/dependency I've ever had. Nothing compared to what kind of habit I had for 1year). Anyways, frustration about that set aside....! The highest dose I was on(about 4yrs.ago) was about 140mg.(give or take 10mg.) I didn't use since I started- unless one would count surgeries... had to have 4surgeries in one year, but I did not use all the pain meds. Always had someone else hold&give me them as needed. For the past almost 2yrs. , my dose was about 45mg. I have been tapering on my own w/my take outs the last 6months- saving mgs. that I didn't take. I am now down to 7mg. (Other complications/obstacles are ahead of me, but that's a whole diff. Thread) what I'm wondering- I've been under 14 mg. for about 2months. Steadily, but what I feel isn't TOO quickly, decreasing. I really can't wait to be free. So, whether or not I take it down to 3mg/1mg./.5mg... will my "accute"/"severe" wd's. be kind of based on what's been in my body for the last month or recent weeks from which I jump off, or will it be just the same as if I'd jumped at 45mg.? I've read so many diff. answers to this. Perhaps there is no definite for sure answer. My clinic always told me slow to zero&you will be FINE. Any positive experiences going slow, down 1mg. Or even .5mg? Or am I just the same to jump at 3mg? Any input is gratefully appreciated!
(I am on all the "called for" vitamins, have "comfort meds" if needed..I've been preparing for this... Too bad I didn't do this kind of research about treatments/methadone 6yrs. ago :/ )

I'm not surprised but I am disgusted with the fact that you were steered into MMT for a first attempt at recovery. I was on MMT during the decade of oxycontin and kept noticing younger and younger kids (18 yr. olds and up) showing up and being pushed on MMT just like you. The problem isn't the drug cause it can be a lifesaver for many,myself included.But is seems that most clinics are in it for every $$ they can get and operate just like the pill mills before them that provided them with plenty of methadone fodder. As for your question, from all that I've read on the subject is that the slower you go the easier the physical WD and the headfuck symptoms manifest. But the only way to find out is to try it. But don't jump at 45.I'd keep stockpiling and going down on your own. My personal experience is slow to low and do not have ANY physical discomfort at all. The head,well that's a different story...

 

[Emme80]

Hey MMT- I completely agree with my views on methadone clinics. I was never asked if I had tried to quit ANY other way. At that time/day I was sent into that clinic, I was on day 4 of withdrawal. Close to the end of those wd's. Now, I face a bigger problem than I do today. I left my clinic a couple weeks ago. On my last Monday morning there, to pick up my take homes, I'll never forget it- it was like some slow motion swish of a moment filled with a thousand days and thoughts. I saw a girl(maybe 20 yrs. old) with her very worried looking mother ... talking to the admitting nurse. He was saying this methadone was the best thing to do. I still wish I'd stopped&talked to her...just simply to tell her to truly research this&then consider her true condition&needs. I am NOT saying that methadone isn't the way to go, as I DO believe&know the benefits if it. It DID give me the chance to see what I needed to change. I made a 180°. But by then, I was complacent & stagnant. The dosing nurses always encouraged me to increase dose- they knew me well for a long time, but never said "hey, don't increase, decrease&get back to life- you deserve it". That is why I feel a second party should help you consider where you're at. If someone realllly wants to be on Methadone, they will be. But, I would have definitely benefitted from a second opinion/if the harsh facts of Methadone were laid out for me. Since I left the clinic, I've not recv'd one call from them. Makes me feel even more like a "number" and $ to them than I was already feeling.
By the way MMT, I'm not on 45mg. At the time I left clinic, according to them I was at 24mg. I'd been reducing&stockpiling at home w/my take homes. I was truly at 14mg. When I left the clinic. I would pretend to take my window dose when I came in for my bi- weekly takehomes. Currently, I am at 7mg. I'm tapering down with all I saved(500+mg). I refuse to turn 40 this year, still on this drink.
What I DO believe, with my experience & knowledge now...seeing that young girl that last Monday Methadone Clinic Visit, is this:
There should be some kind of mediator or... non-bias, not paid by clinic therapist/addiction specialist that speaks to to the possible patient and truly lays it all out there.. what the trade off is- not sugar coating it, not discouraging it. Someone that does not benefit from the clinic...to also evaluate the person. I feel very strongly about this. An advocate for the proper treatment...I know everybody is different...a small habit can be BIG to some. But i do believe 1st line of treatments should be mandatory before you're welcomed, open arms into a methadone clinic. I wish I knew what I do now, now matter how cliche it sounds.
I just wish there was a 2nd party there when that young girl was told yes, Methadone is the way to go, on that Strangely timed Monday Morning. It was a surreal "last day" at clinic.. me walking out, roughed up from 6yrs.of this maintenance while this young girl walks in...it's stuck with me- like I said- it was like a slow motion of a strange dichotomy.
(Sorry for the repetition of my thoughts. I've never voiced my feelings on my belief for a second party upon intake of Methadone Clinic... I know I "spoke" in circles..sorry)

 

[Emme80]

FYI- I want to clarify, I DO believe methadone is an incredibly wonderful tool. It's saved so many. I just wish someone(I know you have to be your own advocate... But at the time I walked in there, I was hurting so bad- they said this would help tremendously...and it did. ( what didn't know, is that 4days into wd, I was close to things turning upside. I wish there was someone to talk to people like me- who was naïve and trusting the clinic admit. who knew me for 2minutes before I said yes. I do wish there was some type of reqd. 1st line of treatments, someone to ask by what other means, if anything, you've tried doing to get clean. It may be that they could benefit from rehab detox&therapy. Would that have done the trick for me? I don't know & no point speculating now.
Basically, Methadone is a God Send. Yes. It should be available to us addicts and it can give you that much needed chance to change- you can't change the world AROUND you but you can change the world IN you. I'd worked for me. I still firmly believe a 2nd party, not affiliated with the clinic, should also meet & asses said patient. To lay out the bare facts. And options.
Ok... I've said more than enough. Sorry. It's a subject that's been on my mind for a long time. And honestly, I don't know why there isn't such a 2nd party specialist -addiction specialist- to meet with any possible new patient to..in a most possible non-bias way, help map out treatments for each individual. As with many things, it's not a one size fits all.
Lastly, I will say that I'm glad I got help. That help was methadone. And I got to change the world in me. I'm grateful for that...

 

[Emme80]

I'm incapable if writing small posts btw.

 

[MMT]

I don't know why first timers can't get a 30,60 or 90 day OUTPATIENT methadone detox. AFAIK something like a 30 day detox has to be in-patient,which must cost the insurance co.'s a lot of money. And the methadone clinics won't do anything less than a 180 day detox which is overkill on a first attempt and most often that 180 day detox morphs into MMT. What's wrong with a shorter detox and longer after-care counseling?

 

[crzydiamond]

^^i completely agree with this. I had been on MMt, was clean for almost 9 years(off MMT/completely clean) n then relapsed. I didn't want to screw up my job n lose my house (rented) n all by going inpatient. I asked at the local clinic about detoxing outpatient which they advertise and I had insurance to cover. But they kept claiming their "detox spots were full" and they were only taking maintenance patients. I ended up going into detox, relapsing 2 months later then getting back on the clinic. Which annoys me and I know I would have been ok with a detox as I had a substantial period of clean time and just needed to get back to it.

So now I'm stuck on this MMT, waking up every day feeling like crap and other than weekends having to wait until afternoon to dose...

Which was probably what they intended all along--get another long term patient with insurance---

 

[MMT]

I'd like to know from everyone here what form of methadone you get from your clinic. Juice(Methadose) ,pills in liquid or the orange Lilly 40mg. wafers in liquid. Also,does your clinic let you choose which one you want. Call it an informal 'study',haha.

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

I'm incapable if writing small posts btw.

Your posts are awesome.

I agree with everything, though I have only taken methadone pills recreationally, never a clinic.


MMT is for hard time junkies that just can't stop shooting opioids. A methadone clinic without a taper schedule is a cash cow and should be illegal. No one should be on 100 mg of methadone for two years. You could fucking taper at like .2 mg a day or something and eventually not realize you're taking 4mg a day after two

24 mg of methadone ain't too much. Have you considered following it with a semi-rapid loperamide taper?

 

[Emme80]

@lolwhatzdrugs..Allo' to you! Well, I must congratulate you if you actually made it through my words in circles. Loooong circles. I'm always looking for that perfect string if words, like a string of pearls, that will so adequately and so precisely capture what I'm trying to say. I could blame it on the Methadone, but unfortunately, it's me&usually, I can't shut the fuck up :/
Yes, methadone us on helluva beast. I really wish there were better ways of intaking a patient. Hell, if they don't KNOW that the wd's they're facing are actually nearing the end (as was my case...I wish they'd told me I'd be coming through the mud&mire in a day or so-would've been nothing less than helpful, but I'll never know if I could've gone a different route). I'm at where I'm at. When I left my clinic, they THOUGHT I was at 24mg. In reality, I was @nearly half if that- I had takes homes -for looong time. I decided to start reducing with my take homes b/c I wanted to take the taper a bit faster than was "regulated". So, I stashed away500+mg. I'm now down to 6mg. So damn near the end. I know how good methadone can be-but indeed, I strongly believe there should be 2nd party assessments-besides the intake counselor who is more than ready to sign you up for the ride. I'm so ... ready to start a new chapter. I know this chapter will always be a part of my story, but I'm ready to walk on, leave it behind...start something new. Get back to where my car stalled in this road.(see? I'm too much...with sum of ..4 metaphors back to back!?!? Insane).
So, yes, down to 6mg. Down to the wire on it. Everybody says last 5 are hell - I'm not going into it like so. After all,
"It always seems impossible until it's done"
-Nelson Mandella
I'm ready. I hope all is well in your corner of this world!
@MMT- for your "informal study"- I've always gotten it as a clear liquid. The taste is only best described as a tiny bit of liquid that had a dissolved aspirin in it along with a penny soaking in it for days. I don't know HOW WHERE WHAT WHEN or WHY I'd ever have a run into that taste ...god help me if I did, I'd probably have some damaging flashback and end up in such a state. Let's just hope that this never happens. Yep. That's what I got-clear liquid-nasty shit. (But when I was in LA for sum weeks, I was guest dosed at a clinic there- that trickery! Just b/c it's red/"flavored"...made no difference. It was no koolaide, or anything kind. Yuk!
K. I shutz da fuck up now

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

Wow. Your post is a bit hypomanic, and your avatar fits perfectly. Dude 6mg is a perfect dose to keep tapering from, you could probably jump to 2 loperamides a day and feel fine, and taper .1 mg (tiny scrapings off the pill, from there.

 

[Lorne???]

Your posts are awesome.

I agree with everything, though I have only taken methadone pills recreationally, never a clinic.


MMT is for hard time junkies that just can't stop shooting opioids. A methadone clinic without a taper schedule is a cash cow and should be illegal. No one should be on 100 mg of methadone for two years. You could fucking taper at like .2 mg a day or something and eventually not realize you're taking 4mg a day after two

24 mg of methadone ain't too much. Have you considered following it with a semi-rapid loperamide taper?

I have to strongly disagree, man. Although I do agree that the doses given are often just fucking ridiculous, forcing patients on a taper would be even worse.

Some people don't like to hear this, but for some addicts, quitting is no longer a realistic option. After years and years of injecting morphine/diamorphine(or other hard opies) it simply gets to a point that lifetime ORT is simply the best option. I do believe people should be heir to a reasonable level, as I've said before, I've seen people at the clinic who literally we're snorting a few roxi 30's a day (and that is if they we're lucky) going to the clinic and somehow getting fucking 90mg per day. The dose is so high they run around high as hell for a few weeks, until finally they adjust, and then complain that snorting they're Roxie's doesn't touch them anymore. Ugh...

 

[MMT]

@Em80. Ya that clear stuff is the sugar-free liquid done that a few clinics use.It's pretty rare and you don't hear about it too much,prolly too expensive.It's the first time I've even seen it mentioned around here.

 

[crzydiamond]

@MMT
My clinic is liquid methadone, clear, that they mix with lemonade.

It's not that cherry methadose. I've had that. I've actually had the other forms thru the years as well.

This is the only form they offer, as far as I know.

Interesting note-- a pharmacist actually comes in and ( mixes ? Refills?) the bottles every so often. The one day I went in and they had bottles n bottles lined up behind the counter ( large brown bottles, maybe a liter or so? Not sure of amount , didn't get close look). But apparently the guy comes inand fills these bottles as needed. The nurse said he "comes
In to mix the methadone"?!? I always thought it came as is so seems odd to me.

But all I could think was wow I'd like to hijack that supply of bottles... Ah, daydreams...

What form do you prefer? Years ago I had this clear kind which is fine and that clinic switched to
Cherry methadose and it seemed weaker and a LOT of ppl complained.

I prefer liquid to pills. But I did like those diskettes (the 40 mg).

 

[MMT]

^That's a new one to me(the pharmacist thing) .Anyone else ever see this ? And ya,I loved them orange wafers too.Now it's all that Cherry piss around here but it's all the kids know so no one complains anymore.I used to love them showing me two of them babies in the cup before they'd douse em with (something resembling) Tang.

 

[Emme80]

@Lorne-It's a fact that can't be denied-Methadone is a most incredible tool...where some patients can use it as it was designed- only if that patient is truly dedicated to making all necessary changes. As well, there are many who have addiction that comes as deep & dark as the day is long. Yes, for them, methadone is very well a life medication. I do know that my clinic was pay&you get to go through the turn style. Always armed with all various reasons why I should increase. When CLEARLY, I spoke about it, signed the paperwork, I was flagged in my file as "on taper"...had gone down from 140/150mg. to (according to them, down to 24mg.) but reality was I never took my window dose-I spit out-because I didn't want 24mg. ingested when I was truly at 14mg at that point.
What is missing from Methadone Clinics? Somebody-a second party- to help asses each "new" patient. Upon both assessments, a "plan" is devised. I DO think one should be even simply asked if they've tried other means of treatment. All facts about methadone should be transparent. If somebody is truly wanting to get on Methadone-they'll know what to say. But the young lady in the clinic, with her naive worried mother, new to any form of treatment, she was told yes - this is the way-before anything was really covered. They were already talking about prices, privileges, etc.....what about a "plan"? What about a non clinic benefitting addiction specialist assessing her as well? I just think that is just as important-in "helping" the possible patient. You will never hear me say that methadone is bad...it saves lives. It allows some to HAVE a life. To others, it can end up a bigger dependency than the one I walked in with. I think we, and all methadone clinics owe this to the patient. Some implements would nothing short of gooood.
@MMT- yea, when I've talks to other about their dose, nobody ever mentioned the metallic, thousand dissolved aspirins(not the consistency of a thousand melted aspirins..) dose like mine. Usually is lemonade like(as crzydiamond mentioned)cherry liquid, pills, etc. My clinic(or shall I say former clinic-we divorced.)did offer pills if the liquid was...causing your tummy ill-effects.

 

[sinclair1984]

I'm thinking of going back to methadone from subutex does anyone have any advice. I'm an addict who is in pain management for a bad accident. I have to take Kpins with the subs to make them work so its more dangerous I believe. any advice?

 

[Emme80]

@lolwhatzdrugs- I'm down to 5mg. as of today..don't think that 2mg. of loperamide would hold me at this dose...it low-yes, but methadone is so very potent and has SUCH a long half life. I'll get there though.
Must say, my...words ...have been called a many things..that one is a first-hypomanic- me&my Owlet.

 

[Emme80]

@sinclair- I think that generally, Methadone is better for treatment of pain. Though, I've had many say the subs work well for mitigating pain. Are you needing pain management for life perhaps? That might have weight in such a decision...how did the Methadone work for you in the past? (Was it for pain management then as well?)

 

[MMT]

@lolwhatzdrugs- I'm down to 5mg. as of today..don't think that 2mg. of loperamide would hold me at this dose...it low-yes, but methadone is so very potent and has SUCH a long half life. I'll get there though.
Must say, my...words ...have been called a many things..that one is a first-hypomanic- me&my Owlet.

That's GREAT Emme,truly.I'm just so stuck at ~20mg. with NO physical WD but like I said before I'm having trouble head-wise. All the good ones; depression,anxiety and no motivation whatsoever. I know it's because of my very long 30+ year history of opiate use of which the last 10++ years have been methadone exclusively so it's not like I didn't know what to expect but it doesn't make it any easier either. HBU ? It sounds like you're doin ok in that department.Anyways,keep up the good work cause you sound like you have a real chance of beating this and moving on with your life.

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

@sinclair- I think that generally, Methadone is better for treatment of pain. Though, I've had many say the subs work well for mitigating pain. Are you needing pain management for life perhaps? That might have weight in such a decision...how did the Methadone work for you in the past? (Was it for pain management then as well?)

I have never taken it for pain or for MMT, I took methadone recreationally. I never noticed any analgesia as I didn't have pain, just dependant on opioids and liked the way methadone pills made me feel. Can't help you in the analgesia department sorry.

I have to strongly disagree, man. Although I do agree that the doses given are often just fucking ridiculous, forcing patients on a taper would be even worse.

Some people don't like to hear this, but for some addicts, quitting is no longer a realistic option. After years and years of injecting morphine/diamorphine(or other hard opies) it simply gets to a point that lifetime ORT is simply the best option. I do believe people should be heir to a reasonable level, as I've said before, I've seen people at the clinic who literally we're snorting a few roxi 30's a day (and that is if they we're lucky) going to the clinic and somehow getting fucking 90mg per day. The dose is so high they run around high as hell for a few weeks, until finally they adjust, and then complain that snorting they're Roxie's doesn't touch them anymore. Ugh...

I didn't mean to imply that there are those some people who truly need long term MMT, I'll say I mispoke. Just every MMT clinic should have available a .2mg taper schedule or an ultra low one should be available to loosen those handcuffs. Hell there should be heroin clinics that let you shoot up in sterile rooms with cheap pure product. You should get to decide how you stop and what goes into your body, I was only emphasizing it's fucked up when MMT doctors insist you must get to a 'blocking dose' when you needed less, or don't offer a taper schedule, or do any other dickish stuff.