Meth/Amphetamines: Serious Discussion Only

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What heroin did do though, better than meth did, was that it numbed me out to the rest of the world and all of my problems, issues, and anxieties. And ultimately, I think that's why I started using drugs in the first place....not for the euphoria, but so that I could tune out everything.

That's why I'll chose heroin over meth most days.
 
That's why I'll chose heroin over meth most days.

I got that feeling the first time i did heroin, and i really liked it.. The first time i did oxy though i started getting really upset about everything.. it was really weird?

I dont really want that old feeling back anymore footscrazy, i really cant describe it.. its like this switch in my head was flicked and im just over it? Usually once i have some meth, i just cant control myself and inevitably have too much of everything i can get my hands on.. but something is different now...

I think maybe a big part of it is im not trying to be someone im not anymore, so the effects of meth make me feel like im not being myself.
 
Unfortunately relapsed on adderall, hopefully just for today. I feel so unproductive and unmotivated without it, even three weeks off of it. I do my work slowly and steadily, but I keep falling behind. My studying is horrible and I am getting a bad grade in my class. I am doing okay at my internship but I could do a lot, lot better if I went back on adderall.

How are sober people productive? I have no idea! I am trying to stay sober but I want to do excellent work and please everyone who is depending on me, and I feel like I'm losing ground in that. Amphetamines are such a great fix. :(
 
To me a drug is recreational when it improves recreation and relaxtion; not when it induces a compulsion to obsess over activities, most oftenly "non-recreational" tasks.

Meth, unlike narcotics, does not to give you joy in doing various things; but feel pleasurably motivated and rewarded in doing various things. Yes it has a powerful euphoria, but this euphoria is to do things that one would not otherwise enjoy as much, or at all.

Narcotics seem to LET the user enjoy any activity one does, without inducing them to act. One is more compelled to do things that they ALREADY enjoy, and behave in a manner more consistent with natural and healthy human pleasure-seeking behavior.

Meth seems to alter the activities that normally give the user pleasure; while narcotics enhance all activities, but the user still chooses those activities that would normally be recreational.

IMO a chemical which alters the fundamentals of human behavior/psyche, in this case pleasure seeking, is a drug that is undesirable. This is of course due to its overwhelming affect on the human mind and REWARD pathways.

I say reward, because i find reward significantly different than PLEASURE. Instead of giving pleasure in doing pleasurable things, its gives a pleasurable-award for doing non-pleasurable, or obsessive things.

It is a drug that rewards the user for doing things that trigger this rewarding pleasure. Narcotics on the other hand give pleasure for the normal human pleasure triggers. I thus have arrived at the difference in PLEASURE being a result of the endemic OPIATE system, and REWARD being the result of of the DOPAMINE system.

One merely enhances a natural chemical/psychological result of human behavior, while the other alters the chemical/psychological result of human behaviour.

This is why it is no coincidence that potent dopaminergic drugs are also highly neuro-toxic. Instead of opening the doors of pleasure in the brain, it is taking the doors of their hinges.

The result of long term Meth use is a pattern visible in its users, they give off a spaced-out feeling. They look at you in a way where one's awareness of reality, and level of consciousness, is degraded. The doors of pleasure in their brain have been removed from their hinges so many times, that the hinges are broken, are the doors are gone premanently.

With narcotics the mental "damage" is not really damage, so much as it is a consequence. The doors have been wedged open so long by the drug, that the body has lost its own strength to open them. But fortunately this strength can be regained. And the atrophied muscles will regain their strength. But during this time, withdrawal, the doors will be barely open until the body regains its strength to open them fully. This is withdrawal, and unlike the brain-damage of stimulants, it is not permanent.

To me those that would choose stimulants are more often insecure, and need artificial reward/reinsurance that their behavior is good. They feel they need to accomplish more/socialize more/work more/ and are unsatisfied with themselves. The drug gives this reward, this satisfaction, and allows them to conquer their psychological problems chemically. The narcotic user simply wants pleasure for pleasures sake, their flaw is that they are the epitome of Hedonism.

Hedonism vs Insecurity, both have their flaws. But the process in satisfying hedonism is a natural process that can be done without drugs. But the process of alleviating insecurities has no natural method, other than medication. The incidence of pysycopathies and schizophrenia in stimulant users is far higher than in the normal population, as the use of these drugs both provides shelter from initial psychological problem of insecurity; and as its prolonged use results in a furthering of these problems.

In summation, a narcotic addict destroys himself by his lifestyle. A stimulant addict destroys himself with his drug.

I would be inclined to keep my consciousness unaltered and bask in the negative results of my own bad decisions. But some would rather alter their reality in order to accomplish that which they feel is important, and do so by destroying their mind.

Thanks for reading. I'll edit this later.
 
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I remember mia wanted some info on the damage done by meth. I've been searching pubmed on the possible change from adderall to desoxyn but I'm not so sure anymore i want either one...

Meth seems so much more damaging to the body than any other drug including heroin.

It seems that the heart damage is reversible upon abstinence, that is if you don't die first.
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Leave Methamphetamine to be alive - Part II.
Islam MN, Khan J, Jaafar H.

Faculty of Medicine, Universiti Tekhologi MARA, 40450 Shah Alam, Selangor, Malaysia.

Series of experiments have been completed with Methamphetamine (MA). Some were with the higher, medium or lower duration of MA administration and some were with acute or chronic doses. Whatever may be the dose or duration the ultimate result came out with the further establishment of cardio-toxic effect of this drug. Cardiovascular symptoms related to MA toxicity include chest pain, palpitations, dyspnoea, hypertension, tachycardia, atrial and ventricular arrhythmias, and myocardial ischemia. MA abusers often go through a repeated pattern of frequent drug administrations followed by a period of abstinence. Previous studies have focused largely upon the chronic effect of MA intake to major organs, such as the brains and the heart, by using animal experiments. However, there is a lack of research into the effects of acute dose of MA, especially pertaining to the heart. To clarify the effect of MA on myocardium, 22 male Wister rats aged six weeks were divided into MA, Placebo (P) and Control (C) group were examined following single intraperitoneal administration of MA at a dose of 50mg/kg body weight. Normal saline was similarly injected in P group. Light microscopic changes was seen in the myocardium of MA treated group including cellular infiltration, with clusters of macrophage-like cells having large nuclei and little cytoplasm evident in the sub-endocardium region. There were presence of few macrophages, leucocytes, and spindle-like fibroblasts. Bringing in to account of cardiac changes by a single dose of MA, slogan should be voiced out to leave methamphetamine.
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Methamphetamine toxicity and messengers of death.
Krasnova IN, Cadet JL.

Molecular Neuropsychiatry Research Branch, Intramural Research Program, NIDA/NIH/DHHS, 251 Bayview Boulevard, Baltimore, MD 21224, USA.

Methamphetamine (METH) is an illicit psychostimulant that is widely abused in the world. Several lines of evidence suggest that chronic METH abuse leads to neurodegenerative changes in the human brain. These include damage to dopamine and serotonin axons, loss of gray matter accompanied by hypertrophy of the white matter and microgliosis in different brain areas. In the present review, we summarize data on the animal models of METH neurotoxicity which include degeneration of monoaminergic terminals and neuronal apoptosis. In addition, we discuss molecular and cellular bases of METH-induced neuropathologies. The accumulated evidence indicates that multiple events, including oxidative stress, excitotoxicity, hyperthermia, neuroinflammatory responses, mitochondrial dysfunction, and endoplasmic reticulum stress converge to mediate METH-induced terminal degeneration and neuronal apoptosis. When taken together, these findings suggest that pharmacological strategies geared towards the prevention and treatment of the deleterious effects of this drug will need to attack the various pathways that form the substrates of METH toxicity.
 
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Valentine4, I agree with most of your last post. I was a heroin addict and also had my share of stimulants so can relate.

Those positive things you state about narcotics only last for a short time and eventually lead to ennui, a state that is worse than before, an almost paralyzing inability to do anything.

It seems thou that you have a more negative opinion about a meth user as opposed to a narcotic/opiate user.

In today's world, it seems that for a lot of people most of the things they do in life are things they don't enjoy doing. We have to find ways to do things we hate doing otherwise we don't survive. Whether it is the slave like repetitive jobs,education that doesn't interest us or ever day's mundane tasks we have to do. There really isn't that much pleasure in our lives. There are a few people out there who have tons of energy and like to do things like that or don't mind. But for those of us who are bored with doing the same shit everyday and have on top of that low energy why should they be thought of as less if they turn to stimulants like meth. Out current lives almost demand it. If we don't stay on the same level of task doing as others we can't survive. Most jobs are not interesting and difficult to just do. Sometimes the bod rebels and doesn't want to do it. Taking the door off and doing things we don't want to do seems almost ideal for today's world.

I got addicted at 25. When I was younger I was so full of energy and determination for my life to come. When I graduated from college and got my first job all positive in me almost died. I had a good paying job but I was almost prevented from using my brain, creativity or anything I learned in school. I tried forcing myself to go on cuz i needed money to survive and couldn't find anything better. I started to break down mentally and turned to drugs. I found heroin and it worked for a little while, it made all the repetitive tasks. I did somehow possible to handle. I sometimes wish I found meth . I probably would have still been productive today. I wish I didn't have the door you are speaking of and I could do anything that needs to be done. It seems that most things seen as good in today society are things I don't like doing. After several years of employment I have total ergophobia and I'm looking into drugs again so maybe I have a decent few years of work.
 
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i'm on d-amphetamine for ADD, LD (dyslexia), and fatigue.

i take 40mg a day but that only lasts me 5 hours then i crash..so on busy days, i take 80mg..which is my scripted daily dose. i totally relate to using just to function normally. getting out of bed without any help, staying focused and motivated..it's all pretty pointless without amphetamine or crystal. caffeine just puts me to sleep and gives me a migraine. cocaine is really euphoric, but even with high quality stuff i'm not that energized for very long. i think i have a naturally high tolerance to stimulants. i'm pretty much the opposite of hyperactive (notice the ADD, no H in there)...when i don't take anything i'll sleep anywhere from 15 to 20 hours at a time, binge on food, and use downers like pot or opiates to ease the body load and other physical pain i get from daily speed use...pre-use, tho, i was still sleeping 10+ hours a day and having horrible body load from my fatigue (adrenal insufficiency) along with unshakable depression that made me unable to function on any normal level.

overall, i'd say amphetamine has helped me...my addictive behavior is less extreme than it used to be; i don't over-eat and binge like before, my mood is more stable, and i can actually do work without feeling drained after only an hour of focusing on a task. of course it sucks to be dependent on anything....but i don't see myself as having any other options where the positive would outweigh the negative. maybe eventually the negative will outweigh the positive with the speed...but hopefully later than sooner as i really need to have the drive and energy to get through everyday life right now.
 
I can hardly even see the relation.

For me, coke was a totally different rush to what meth gives me.

So the comparison is stupid ime.


agreed.

the main difference, for me.....

cocaine = social drug
meth = work drug

with meth or even just amphetamine, i'd rather just be alone and figure out shit, get a lot of work done, obsess over things, etc...i'm not particularly social most of the time. with coke, all i want to do is have a good time.
 
I get so depressed when I think of the brain damage I probably have caused myself from smoking meth. I feel so stupid, it makes me so sad.
I don't know what to do, it makes me feel so hopeless, I try not to think about it too much, because what's the point in worrying about it if it's irreversible...but still, it's sad.
It's one of the main things keeping me off it at the moment.
 
I have terrible trouble with numbers after meth binges, I see them upside down and in different orders, which is a problem at work. It doesnt last, but when I used to be on gear every day I used to keep using so I would not have this issue.

Coming off gear totally confused the fuck out of my brain. It could not work in the same way it was all of a sudden. I misread words and numbers with patient details on request forms and Patient ID numbers on bar codes all jumbled for a few weeks after returning to work. Its all good now but having to check my work over and over was frightening.

Im considering using again, seriously. I wonder if I could use on weekends only. How? I used to buy an ounce at a time. It was always there.

If I get small amounts its limited. But yeah, thats the addiction talking.
 
oh noes! tonight I will have a come down. I will get some chills and a bit of neasua for a while.
the world is ending, its so so aweful, what do I do?

wait, its just some chills neasua and hard time sleeping. its over in a few hours. hmmm...the world isnt really ending.

really...its in all your head and what you make of it, what you choose it to be.
 
well...I use alot actaully.

still...its never too bad...it use be tho. I just sort of learned to not let my head go into sad places....it really is what you make it out to be.

or perhaps worse expierences have mad it seem not so bad to me. but I find even the end of a nice 4 day binge isnt that bad....if I dont let be.
 
i fucking reused a needle twice last night:| fucking junkie habits!:X

some good old vitamin e, and neosporin will have to help out the cause. and it didnt help being bumped accidentally while i had the needle in my arm, which incidentally make a nice blotchy red mark which is thankfully disappearing pretty well:\
 
Can you just load up on a 100 pack? All problems I had from needles were from reusing blunt ones as I was too shy to go get more. Collingwood had an after hours delivery service. Here in Bris suburbs I went To Biala needle exchange in the city. Looking at my favourite old shooting spots all healed up now brings back all sorts of memories.

Get Hiruoid cream mate.
 
well...I use alot actaully.

still...its never too bad...it use be tho. I just sort of learned to not let my head go into sad places....it really is what you make it out to be.

or perhaps worse expierences have mad it seem not so bad to me. but I find even the end of a nice 4 day binge isnt that bad....if I dont let be.

It would be nice to chat sometime. <3
 
Can you just load up on a 100 pack? All problems I had from needles were from reusing blunt ones as I was too shy to go get more. Collingwood had an after hours delivery service. Here in Bris suburbs I went To Biala needle exchange in the city. Looking at my favourite old shooting spots all healed up now brings back all sorts of memories.

Get Hiruoid cream mate.

i used to have that many laying around when i was an everyday user. i would still have them now but i've just moved in with my mum and she's well aware of my use but it would blow everything with her if she found that many syringes, or even a single one laying around. im not a huge user anymore so it's usually easy enough for me to go to the exchange or the pharmacy before it's too late at night.

i had a 5 pack on me, which these days, never gets used in one night. but it did this time.

i got some vit e cream, antisceptic cream and have been working out and now am just left with some yellowy discolouring. only someone with a "junky" eye would notice what it's from now.

it's good that it's long sleeve weather...
 
???

I hate this drug I don't even know how to articulate my thouyghts on it right now.... everytime I think OK this is going to be the week I try and figure out how to go to rehab and get clean it switches on me and everything seems OK and I can't do it... but then I have nights or afternoons where I just sit and cry because I can see how much it's fucking up my body and my mind and my life and how DEPENDENT I am on it... but then the OK days come and I can't even comprehend how I could think that because everything seems fine and things can just stay this way forever.... fuck fuck fuck methamphetamine.
 
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