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[MEGA] God

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None of those things are 'real'. They are mere constructs with which to attempt to decribe the 'material reality' we experience.

I am unaware of the experiences mynameisnotDeja has had, but I know that if I recounted some of the experiences I have had during my near 54 years, you would not believe them, yet I know them to be 'real'.

This *waves hands around to indicate 'reality'* is nothing but an illusion or, as Albert Einstein said, 'Reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one'.

I define real as the quantam state that we are able to observe at any given moment. It is as real as you are ever going to get. According to your definition, nothing at all is real and everything is equally valid. I suppose philosophically there is no way to prove an absolute reality, but that is a juvenile excercise that every PHIL 101 student thinks is some big epiphany. I am not here to entertain that rather pointless philosophical notion.

I define real as those things which can be measured and verified experimentally. Theories are built around sound evidence. You have to have some reference point to gauge what is real compared to what is not. For example, psychic abilities have never been shown to exist nor has there ever been a mechanism that could explain their existence. Thus, psychics are total bullshit. Compare that to things like the speed of light, or the existence of photons, and you will see the difference between "real" and not.

I am sure your experiences were real to you, care to share what they were? I sincerely doubt they violated any of the natural laws.

I would hesitate to call everything around you an illusion. How is it an illusion if energy from an environment interacts with a steady state system of cells and produces a holographic representation of the surroundings. I don't consider that an illusion. For our immediate surroundings and universe, the only one we are capable of knowing, things are very real. There may be seperate universes, more dimensions, etc... but it is more productive to focus on those things that actually have an effect on your life.
 
Well, I accept your viewpoint. Stuff like this used to anger me, but then I realized that your experience is your own, and I can't really look down on you or get angry at you for not having experienced what I have in life. I mean, if you'd have some of my experiences you wouldn't feel the way you feel, but if I'd never had any of MY experiences I might feel the way you feel as well.

My only problem with sharing is when people try and convince me that the things that I've gone through were somehow imaginary or something like that. I don't like that at all. It usually leads to an argument. (not saying you would do this, just saying that people with your viewpoint tend to be the people who do)

I disagree with the "if you've experienced what I've experienced you would understand."

I have had a fair share of the magical/mystical experiences over the years from alien abduction, to elf contact, to connecting to "cosmic" gridworks, to communication with a overmind of sorts, to the absolute collapse of linear time, BUT i would NEVER say that I "believe" in any of these things. I believe in the absolute fallibility of human consciousness in grasping the true nature of things. I will gladly say that I think these experiences have SOME truth to them, I would hypothesize potential metaphysical claims that these experiences would hint to, but I find there to be an immense... arrogance to the assumption that such experiences are grounds for "absolute" belief. I absolutely accept that metaphysical experiences and entity contact is an accurate representation of "reality" to a certain degree, but I feel like we as human beings are FAR FAR away from deciphering what exactly that reality is in relation to us... and I can't quite understand any statements regarding belief/certainty based on experiences by limited human consciousness.

hopefully this made some sense.
 
I disagree with the "if you've experienced what I've experienced you would understand."

I think you do understand. Your grounds for disagreement are completely different from someone who has no experience with these states.

Do you just go up to anyone talking about your experiences of alien abduction, elf contact, overminds, etc...?
 
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I think you do understand. Your grounds for disagreement are completely different from someone who has no experience with these states.

Do you just go up to anyone talking about your experiences of alien abduction, elf contact, overminds, etc...?

I learned how quickly I would sound crazy even to 99% of believers if I talked about this... So most people who "believe" just take me for a cynical godless nihilist because I would rather be that to them than an absolute lunatic.
 
You can't imagine it because humans have evolved to find patterns and significance where there isn't any. My life is not cold and void of meaning though, I am perfectly happy. I just choose to believe in what is actually real.

I don't want this to turn into a debate. I'm NOT trying to debate you and I'm sorry if it seemed that way. I don't like debating matters of spirituality, I find it upsetting. I've been through a lot in my life which has led me to the viewpoints I have now, some of the things upsetting or disturbing even, so debating/arguing about it is not something I enjoy. I didnt mean to imply that YOU life was cold and empty and I'm glad you are happy with your viewpoints. I only meant that for me, that viewpoint would seem void of meaning because of who I am as a person, because we are different. And it's fine to be different! :)

Like I said, I don't like debating, there is no debating in these matters, for me.

To be fair, having your experiences wouldn't change my views at all. And are you actually saying you have psychic abilities? That might change my view about this whole issue.

I think we ALL have psychic abilities, most people just aren't connected to that power within themselves. And yeah I've had a lot of psychic experiences, if you could call them that. (I don't mean psychic like psychic hotline tarot card fortune teller sort of psychic). I truly think more people will continue to wake up to these abilities over time in the future.

Why not just call it awareness? Or response to stimuli? Or in the case of humans, sentinence? I did some research on plant response to environmental stimuli, so why not call it ACHe mediated calcium ion influx mediated by extracellular H20 concentrations?

All of these things + GOD are just semantics. Call it whatever you want. FInd whatever it means to you. It's okay that we all see it differently. I just don't like when science minded people try and convince me that God somehow isn't real, any more than I like when hardcore Christians try and convince me that Christ is the only way. If I had one wish it would be for EVERYONE to let go of some of their beliefs. Beliefs are always changing anyway, when you allow yourself to evolve mentally and spiritually.

None of those things are 'real'. They are mere constructs with which to attempt to decribe the 'material reality' we experience.

I am unaware of the experiences mynameisnotDeja has had, but I know that if I recounted some of the experiences I have had during my near 54 years, you would not believe them, yet I know them to be 'real'.

This *waves hands around to indicate 'reality'* is nothing but an illusion or, as Albert Einstein said, 'Reality is an illusion, albeit a persistent one'.

TRUE! :)

I disagree with the "if you've experienced what I've experienced you would understand."

I have had a fair share of the magical/mystical experiences over the years from alien abduction, to elf contact, to connecting to "cosmic" gridworks, to communication with a overmind of sorts, to the absolute collapse of linear time, BUT i would NEVER say that I "believe" in any of these things. I believe in the absolute fallibility of human consciousness in grasping the true nature of things. I will gladly say that I think these experiences have SOME truth to them, I would hypothesize potential metaphysical claims that these experiences would hint to, but I find there to be an immense... arrogance to the assumption that such experiences are grounds for "absolute" belief. I absolutely accept that metaphysical experiences and entity contact is an accurate representation of "reality" to a certain degree, but I feel like we as human beings are FAR FAR away from deciphering what exactly that reality is in relation to us... and I can't quite understand any statements regarding belief/certainty based on experiences by limited human consciousness.

You aren't disagreeing, because I AGREE WITH YOU! Absolutely. We just don't have any idea how big the picture is, and we can't from our perspective, it's too limited.

I think you do understand. Your grounds for disagreement are completely different from someone who has no experience with these states.

I agree, you do understand. And I don't feel you are disagreeing at all. We each have a personal view of the things that happen to us, and that's good. We should all share these different views and realize that they all are REAL and NOT real at the same time.

I learned how quickly I would sound crazy even to 99% of believers if I talked about this...

I hear you. Trust me! I haven't been able to share myself almost all of my life because I just can't emotionally deal with people not being able to accept my experiences. I've never once lied about them, and some of my experiences have been pretty serious/traumatizing, so it tends to upset me and I ended up just no longer going there for the most part.

Btw this is one for the pet peeves thread, but something that just grinds me the wrong way SOOOO much is people saying "I believe that YOU believe this happened to you."

WTF is that? It's so insulting. I'd prefer someone just call me a psycho than come at me like that.

I define real as those things which can be measured and verified experimentally. Theories are built around sound evidence. You have to have some reference point to gauge what is real compared to what is not. For example, psychic abilities have never been shown to exist nor has there ever been a mechanism that could explain their existence. Thus, psychics are total bullshit. Compare that to things like the speed of light, or the existence of photons, and you will see the difference between "real" and not.

I am sure your experiences were real to you, care to share what they were? I sincerely doubt they violated any of the natural laws.

;) LOL...

I'm not going to share them for the reason I stated above, but I just wanted to say I DO respect your view of "reality", I just don't share that viewpoint. But like I said, many parts make the whole and all viewpoints are important!
 
I think we ALL have psychic abilities, most people just aren't connected to that power within themselves. And yeah I've had a lot of psychic experiences, if you could call them that. (I don't mean psychic like psychic hotline tarot card fortune teller sort of psychic). I truly think more people will continue to wake up to these abilities over time in the future.


Hmmm, honestly, that makes me think that you will believe just about anything. I think you believe what feels good or something that comes on whim, but I don't believe you have any rational or normal beliefs. Honestly, if I met you in the streets and you talked like this, I would probably conclude you had done way too much acid and are now a burned out hippie.

I mean, I could easily say I believe all that crap you do because of dreams or feelings or weird experiences that I attach meaning to, but do you know how Christianity got started? The exact same shit you are talking about, people having weird dreams and experiences, then attributing them to a god. I just thought that in this day and age our population would grow smarter, not a lot of luck so far.
 
This might not make a lot of sense...

I believe God is what we make "him"... to some people God is the overall universe, to others a conscious being, to others nature interacting, etc. I don't think there's 1 God that is "the" God... how can you even define what a God is anyway? It means so many things to different people.

That said, I'm not much of a spiritual/religious person... I have had no expierence with a conscious God.. I have at times felt as though a higher power has guided me through things, but I don't know if it was "real" or just my mind grasping for comfort in tough situations. I'm a bit like Enlitx, I stick to the laws of science for now. But I am open to whatever possibilities are out there :)

That said, I can totally believe how someone like Deja has had expierences with the "supernatural" or whatever you want to call it... the thing is, God and angels and spirits and what have you are not SUPPOSED to follow the laws of science.. they TRANSCEND them... I think it's possible to have all the natural laws of the universe and then have a co-existing higher power that follow a different set of "laws" altogether. No, I am no scientist, but to me this makes sense and I just don't see why it has to be an "all or nothing" deal.
 
Hmmm, honestly, that makes me think that you will believe just about anything. I think you believe what feels good or something that comes on whim, but I don't believe you have any rational or normal beliefs. Honestly, if I met you in the streets and you talked like this, I would probably conclude you had done way too much acid and are now a burned out hippie.

I mean, I could easily say I believe all that crap you do because of dreams or feelings or weird experiences that I attach meaning to, but do you know how Christianity got started? The exact same shit you are talking about, people having weird dreams and experiences, then attributing them to a god. I just thought that in this day and age our population would grow smarter, not a lot of luck so far.

Well this post wasn't very nice at all. If you can't open your mind to other peoples experiences without deeming them a burnt out hippie, that's fine. You are entitled to your views, but I am going to discontinue discussing this with you since you can't seem to express your views in a kind way.

That said, I can totally believe how someone like Deja has had expierences with the "supernatural" or whatever you want to call it... the thing is, God and angels and spirits and what have you are not SUPPOSED to follow the laws of science.. they TRANSCEND them... I think it's possible to have all the natural laws of the universe and then have a co-existing higher power that follow a different set of "laws" altogether. No, I am no scientist, but to me this makes sense and I just don't see why it has to be an "all or nothing" deal.

Thanks, great post. :) <3
 
Well this post wasn't very nice at all. If you can't open your mind to other peoples experiences without deeming them a burnt out hippie, that's fine. You are entitled to your views, but I am going to discontinue discussing this with you since you can't seem to express your views in a kind way.
It's like talking to a wall. :\



I think all sorts of everyday experiences are "psychic experiences." Every time we have a conversation with someone there is a mutual recognition of each others consciousness.
 
I define real as those things which can be measured and verified experimentally. Theories are built around sound evidence.
Why is this the best way to define reality? I don't mean to come off as argumentative, but it seems like you're assuming that your idea of real is the "real" concept of reality, and the views of some others are just confused or naive.

I don't think that's the only notion of reality which allows one to distinguish between varying levels of reality.

My $0.02
The only thing I would describe as being remotely god-like, is that which is the sum of all existence, that which exists necessarily. It is inherently unknowable to our present forms of consciousness, as we are bound by certain forms of intuition. Is it conscious? I don't know if that's the sort of word that even applies. I suppose in some sense it is, in that I am conscious, but as to the whole, I don't think I could conceive of it being either conscious or non-conscious. But, this bears so very little to what the word "god" traditionally means, that I would not choose to describe it as such.
 
I define real as the quantam state that we are able to observe at any given moment. It is as real as you are ever going to get. According to your definition, nothing at all is real and everything is equally valid. I suppose philosophically there is no way to prove an absolute reality, but that is a juvenile excercise that every PHIL 101 student thinks is some big epiphany. I am not here to entertain that rather pointless philosophical notion.

I define real as those things which can be measured and verified experimentally. Theories are built around sound evidence. You have to have some reference point to gauge what is real compared to what is not. For example, psychic abilities have never been shown to exist nor has there ever been a mechanism that could explain their existence. Thus, psychics are total bullshit. Compare that to things like the speed of light, or the existence of photons, and you will see the difference between "real" and not.

I am sure your experiences were real to you, care to share what they were? I sincerely doubt they violated any of the natural laws.

I would hesitate to call everything around you an illusion. How is it an illusion if energy from an environment interacts with a steady state system of cells and produces a holographic representation of the surroundings. I don't consider that an illusion. For our immediate surroundings and universe, the only one we are capable of knowing, things are very real. There may be seperate universes, more dimensions, etc... but it is more productive to focus on those things that actually have an effect on your life.

I believe you have been entranced by mechanistic science, "I define real as those things which can be measured and verified experimentally" how about all those new ideas outside the old scientific paradigm that were eventually considered "valid" but previous to proof were merely speculative... would you call those people insane because they didn't have your definition of proof? And no map or concept is inherently real... the map is not the territory.

It was the delusion involving the combination of these three senses of avidya or

marigpa that Nagarjuna, Aryadeva and subsequent Madhyamika interpreters of the Sutras

of the Second Promulgation referred to as the illusion of self-existence of entities. As we take our thoughts to perfectly correspond to an objective

reality and/or we confuse them with the sense data they interpret, we come to experience a

plethora of phenomena as though they were self-existent, as though they inherently

possessed such and such qualities, etc. However, this is a gross delusion, for phenomena in

general, whether of the type we call “mental” or of the type that we designate as “material,”

whether subjects or objects,33 lack the self-existence that individuals possessed by the

delusion called avidya or marigpa perceive them as having, and no map in terms of

thoughts can correspond exactly to the territory of the given, for nothing that can be

asserted concerning any region of reality or entity whatsoever can exactly correspond to it

or exhaust it. Even space and time lack the objective existence we experience them as

having. All of this is what the Madhyamikas had in mind when they used the term

emptiness or voidness (Skt. shunyata; Tib. tongpanyib; Chin. k’ung; Jap. kuc) to refer to the

lack of self-existence of entities (Skt. swabhava shunyata; Tib. rangzhinggyi tongpanyid,

which Tsongkhapa preferred to call rangzhingyi madrubpae), giving rise to what Tibetans

refer to as the Rangtongpaf subschools of Madhyamaka philosophy.34

Avidya or marigpa in the second of the three senses the Dzogchen
 
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A deity is a postulated preternatural or supernatural immortal being, who may be thought of as holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, and respected by human beings. I look at them as psychic manifestations during meditation or rituals or psychedelic experiences that are merely manifestations of your own nature or represent displaced potential onto a all powerful entity because you refuse to see those qualities in yourself. I think gods or deities are the utmost potentiality of humanity and they are ideals to strive for when we become like these gods which are envisioned as the highest human potential then we perfect our own nature which is that of humanities deities and gods throughout the ages.
 
It's like talking to a wall. :\



I think all sorts of everyday experiences are "psychic experiences." Every time we have a conversation with someone there is a mutual recognition of each others consciousness.

Yes, me as well! You put it beautifully. To me everything is a psychic or spiritual experience, it just depends on to what degree. Obviously some experiences are more memorable or "out there" in whatever way than others, but you illustrated my point, that all people are capable of that sort of expanded consciousness, they just have to realize it.

I'm not sure if you were referring to me or someone else, but if so I'm sorry if I come across like talking to a wall. :\ I don't mean to. I honestly enjoy discussing these things, I just don't like that it can't be done without name calling (burnt out hippie IS name calling, IMO).

My $0.02
The only thing I would describe as being remotely god-like, is that which is the sum of all existence, that which exists necessarily. It is inherently unknowable to our present forms of consciousness, as we are bound by certain forms of intuition. Is it conscious? I don't know if that's the sort of word that even applies. I suppose in some sense it is, in that I am conscious, but as to the whole, I don't think I could conceive of it being either conscious or non-conscious.

Great post. I agree. Thank you for that. It's really cool and refreshing that other people see things sorta like I do. A lot of you guys describe what I see in a slightly different way than I see it, but you are basically saying the same thing as me. I appreciate and respect that a lot, it really helps broaden my perspective. :)
 
Is our existance an illusion ? I know this can be construde as a matrix thing but, how do we know that we physically exist ?

We seem to be able, given the right application, to be able to create a life that we feel is real.

I've read that we only utilise about 10% of of brain power, what is the rest for ?

We all dream, have aspirations, but are they real. Do we have the power to aspire to our dreams and what about those that do not ? What is the difference ?

Some people move along in their existence only to amount to nothing. Others move on to greater things. We have the same brains, but does everybody know how you use it to its full potential ?

It would appear that we are alone in the universe, we do not have the capability to go where we would like to.

Time constrains what we are able to acheive.

But we still strive to say that "We are not alone".

We might not be, but, we dont have the capability to know that.

Finding life on another planet seems real to us, but what do we know ? Life in another world could be something that we dont know about.

Life is/should/must be out there, however we do not recognise it. Everything is relative to us.

And at the end of the day, what are we able to do about it ? Absolutely nothing.............

If anybody can tell me different or give me solid proof that we do exist.

There is no proof, there is no other life that will be relavent to us out there in the universe. If there is, we cant get there, and why have they not been in contact with us?

This may be basic but can anybody prove that I am wrong ?

We expect life to be be how we can perceive it. It could be right in front of us but we would not recognise it. Prove i'm wrong, but if you do, you couldn't be sure of it could you !
__________________
 
I think that it is foolish to rely completely on the current evolved form of consciousness/logic as the definitive kind.

I think all sorts of everyday experiences are "psychic experiences." Every time we have a conversation with someone there is a mutual recognition of each others consciousness.

namaste
 
I believe in my own personal higher power, who I call God. He has always been there for me, and I feel no need to convince others to believe in what I do, unless they are interested. I believe God is everywhere and a part of everything, especially in nature, love and family. I feel very close to him and know that he is there even in my darkest times, it just doesnt always seem like it at the time. Thank you for this thread though, I find it interesting to see what people believe in :D
 
i particularly like south park's take on god

southparkgod.jpg


i think it is wise not to mistake "in his image" with "in his physical likeness". a disc image looks nothing like a burnt disc ;)
 
I believe in my own personal higher power, who I call God. He has always been there for me, and I feel no need to convince others to believe in what I do, unless they are interested. I believe God is everywhere and a part of everything, especially in nature, love and family. I feel very close to him and know that he is there even in my darkest times, it just doesnt always seem like it at the time. Thank you for this thread though, I find it interesting to see what people believe in :D

Yay! Yes! :) These posts make me so damn happy and inspired. :) This thread is beautiful, thank you guys.
 
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