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[MEGA] God v.2

^ that is a great thread.

to the op, i suggest you read flatland. it won't necessarily help you find an answer but it might help you see that, maybe, you're just not wired to understand the answer.

alasdair
 
How is the existence of the universe possible in the presence of a creative force?


I wholly agree with those who have stated that we will never come close to understanding any of this -- but, it's a guilty pleasure of mine to speculate...
 
God/Creator/Architect of the Universe/Mother Earth - does exist! Thats how the universe is possible.
 
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^ I was actually a little uncertain about the issue before today -- thanks for clearing that right up. ;)
 
I use "god" as a three letter word for "it/all", and not in the religious context at all...but definately deeply and guiltily in the spiritual..and I'm definately not quite sure how at all. I definately agree with the big bang theory (although it's a VERY VERY tiny part of a MUCH BIGGER and ultimately infinite equation, as is the universe)...but seriously..how does something come from nothing? It doesn't...the universe is eternal. What we see as the big bang is either a tiny sliver of the actual universe, or as I saw below:

Some theorists speculate that big bang theory of the universe happen(S) like the death of star that goes into white dwarf mode. The star expands massively then implodes... If the same thing happened with the whole universe, the expanding part would be what we see as our universe right now and would explain for the constant expansion...the implosion part would be how we could trace back to why the universe is expanding in the first place. Why did it start imploding?....because it was expanding of course :) ...it's a circle. It's funny to think about stuff as far out as this, but then if Kristin Stewart sat on your lap you'd tremble...I know I would...but it'd be the nice kind. lol.

Creation is impossible to comprehend.. for to comprehend would be to be god. There is simply no way to even scratch the surface of this subject. Nearly every human that has ever existed has been trying to do this many many times and LONG before us. We're not going to be the magic few that figure it out.
 
not a comment by me, but by a christian, saint thomas aquinas

he believed in god. i don't
but i agree with this argument

paraphrased

"thinking of god before the universe doesn't make sense
god was born with the universe

how could you argue that an eternal god who would have already been here for an infinite time would have waited so long to decide on a whim to create the universe?"
Click to expand...

don't have the time to go on right now but i'll just add, why bother with inventing this god story then
if he appeared with the universe, there's enough with explaining how the universe appeared
no need to add a layer which doesn't resolve the problem
 
there is no god, for i have killed him.

anyways, believing a god did all this is just the easy way out in actually understanding the universe, existence, and yourself. what religious people are doing is trying to inhibit a part of their brain.

the highest power..... is HUMAN FREE WILL

but yes, with this HUMAN FREE WILL, people have the right for spiritual exploration to help
them understand their lives and the world around them, and find satisfaction in the human condition.

BUt THOU SHALL NEVER LOOK DOWN UPON AND A MAN AND SAY "I will pray for your soul"
its wrong, degrading, and judgmental, and NO GOD EVEN has the right to judge a man's soul


and im pretty sure that psychonauts created the universe.....

/just my 2 cents
 
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while i dont believe this is a question we humans will ever "figure out" it sure is a fun one to discuss/debate :)

to me, like DM, god is a word used to mean "all," god is existance. one of my favorite quotes is this...

"i want to know gods thoughts the rest are details" -einstein

god is the "laws" that make things work. by work i mean how one molecule of hydrogen and two molecules of oxygen bind together to create water. I think the term 'creative force' is not very accurate imo, there is no force behind it, it is simply the way that molecules and the processes of mind are fitted to work, in its infinite variables.

(ok after reading this i realized it doesnt make much sense but im going to post it anyway)

isnt it interesting that a universe can birth a species that even asks these questions? even if the answer can not be rationally understood.

sidenote- on one 'breakthrough' psychedelic trip, as i was coming down i came to the realization that the entire universe is simply waves of light and dark matter (or the opposite of light) interacting and finding new ways to 'play' together.
 
If "God" existed before the universe did and "He" created it.... then where did "God" live before there was a universe and where did "He" come from? That is equally as baffling as what came before the universe and how did it come into being.

If you can believe that "God" always was, then you should have no problem believing that the Universe, or some form of it, always was. Why should it be any easier to believe in God than in an infinite universe?
 
First, I don't see how God would solve any of this. If God created the Universe, who created God? If you can accept that God always has existed, why not matter? The Big Bang/Big Crunch cycle theory gives us a pretty viable framework for imagining an infinitely repeating cycle with no ultimate beginning or end (although time itself technically ceases to exist during the cycle switch - time stops and starts again, with an undefined unit of time in between because time itself can only exist relative to matter in spacial dimensions.

I also like philosopher/psychoanalyst Slavoj Zizek's reading of the theory that matter and antimatter were initially created in equal amounts to produce matter out of nothing, that existence itself represents some kind of "cosmic imbalance" in the perfect peace of the empty void that is "true reality".
 
Oh, and one more thing - you assume time is "real" and that it's really linear. Maybe applying subjective human concepts like the linear passage of time to cases like "before the universe" simply produces meaningless results, much like trying to apply 'common sense' Newtonian rules of matter's behavior at the subatomic level. To put it another way, perhaps that thing we call time is not an external dimension that reality "happens within" - perhaps instead, time itself is a subset of that reality. First there is, then there is time. So, to ask of the time before existence is, perhaps, simply to misunderstand the nature of time.
 
The big bang, then there was everything, eventually the matter cools and comes back together in a single point ( over un immagianable time) then bam it happens again - its expanding and. Contracting like a cosmic lung. What's not to get?
 
I think it's reasonable to believe the universe was created by some "creative force". But the creative force doesn't necessarily have to be a god or some other kind of sentient being. There are creative forces all around us that aren't sentient.
 
There was no moment of creation. As far as I understand it, the universe shrank until it became a point of singularity, then began expanding again, and will eventually shrink again, etc., for an infinite period of time. I don't see how the existence of the universe is possible with a creative force (god), magic is a totally ridiculous explanation, it makes far less sense then physics. Just because something isn't known, doesn't mean it can't be known.
 
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