• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet

MDPV - So how dangerous is it?

(Edit ebola got there first, tip of the hat). I was about to say: Did no on one read my post containing that article that supported my notion of 5-HT activity? Sure, 5mg will produce actions more consistent with a DNRI. But large doses (20mg-80mg) are unmistakable in their serotonergic activity, subjectively. I have abused stimulants of almost all classes, many, many variants, rare esoteric stimulants, and have come to develop a good sense of how these drugs feel, and can rather keenly conjecture as to a drugs pharmacology. Yes, it is primarily a DNRI. But, it has a unmistakable 5-HT activity at dose. If you read the articl.e i posted, their findings roughly back up my 'findings'.
 
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^ maybe thats why slamming ultra-irresponsible doses just feels so much 'better' (re: more euphoric). :D
 
Negrogesic posted a binding-screen based study of several analogues a couple of pages back in this thread. It suggested that some similar to mdpv might have very slight serotonergic activity, on the order of d-amphetamine's. I would consider this negligible, but Negrogesic argued it relevant at high doses.

ebola

The closest things are the methoxy/dimethoxy analogues in that paper with the following values:

Dimethoxypyrovalerone DAT: >10µM SERT: 7460 ± 770 (Ki) 1540 ± 220 (IC50) NET >10µM
4-MeO-pyrovalerone DAT: 329 ± 33 (Ki) 283 ± 66 (IC50) SERT:4080 ± 410 (Ki) 2430 ± 720 (IC50) NET 2600 ± 1000 (Ki) 235 ± 8.7(IC50)

I was mostly referring to the assertion of DAT inhibition activity being wrong, it probably has some SERT inhibition activity but not as much as cocaine.

Cocaine's Ki is as follows:
230nM hDAT, 480nM hNET, 740nM hSERT
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16515684
 
^^^ Thank you for that, that's the information I was "missing".

And yes negro, I didn't see that info. It adds more weight to your argument but I'm still far from convinced. The bulk of your speculation seems to come from your subjective take on things which doesn't automatically negate nor really support. On that same note I am basing my doubts on my subjective take (;)), which to me feels like MDPV's action on serotonin is negligible, even compared to amphetamine or cocaine. I get very little hyperthermia or mydriasis from MDPV, things which to me are hallmarks of a serotonergic. But thank you for the data, this at least convinces me not to discount serotonergic effects as a possibility.
 
Much of the way a stim affects someone depends on their psyche, and the way they react to anxiety and stimulation. This is especially true with MDPV, which is mainly psychological/mental in its effects and has very little body load. It's conceivable that someone *very* stable and mostly immune to anxiety would hardly feel MDPV's effects.

So it mostly appeals to flakey as fuck, balls of neurosis...


must be why I like it! =D


Dimethoxypyrovalerone DAT: >10µM SERT: 7460 ± 770 (Ki) 1540 ± 220 (IC50) NET >10µM
4-MeO-pyrovalerone DAT: 329 ± 33 (Ki) 283 ± 66 (IC50) SERT:4080 ± 410 (Ki) 2430 ± 720 (IC50) NET 2600 ± 1000 (Ki) 235 ± 8.7(IC50)



As cocaine is given at 740nM, both those derivatives are of almost an order of magnitude less potent (assuming they're nM as well - very naughty not giving units!), so I don't think mdpv's serotonogic activity is going to be noticable at anything below stupendous doses
 
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As cocaine is given at 740nM, both those derivatives are of almost an order of magnitude less potent (assuming they're nM as well - very naughty not giving units!), so I don't think mdpv's serotonogic activity is going to be noticable at anything below stupendous doses

My posts are usually missing something, yes, nanomolar of course :D Good to see you 'round these parts F&B
 
After reading this thread I feel like I have to add my personal experience.

THIS DRUG FUCKED ME UP. It has been over 10 months since I have touched ANY kind of drug, including alcohol and nicotine and I am still feeling it's long term effects, in spite of a completely healthy diet and exercise regime. MDPV scared me so much that even the thought of being on another drug freaks me out. I plan to stay firmly sober for the rest of my life, with the possible exception of alcohol or weed if I can get past what MDPV has done to me.

Before I took this drug I had never experienced panic attacks or paranoia. I was completely anxiety free and a 100% positive happy-go-lucky kind of guy. Now, although it has become less constant in the months following my MDPV usage, I am still experiencing occasional illogical anxiety attacks that occur randomly without provocation. I get vertigo, a rush of adrenaline and a feeling like I might pass out that lasts for 10-15 minutes.

I have tried mephedrone, MDMA, cocaine, weed, GHB, a few psychedelics & variety of other drugs before, occasional use only with no problems of addiction or side-effects. I'm a normally social guy and used to work as a bartender before MDPV got the best of me.

I had tried MDPV a few times in small doses with no problems & thought I could handle it, but I was wrong. I started doing it more regularly and soon the urge to binge overtook me. It was literally the most addictive thing I have ever been exposed to in my life. Within a month I had started on a 8 week binge that ended only after I had been to hospital and my concerned brother forcibly flushed my supply and threatened to tell my family and send me to rehab if I didn't stop.

During that 8 week binge it was like I was a completely different person. I would just sit at home compulsively taking it over and over again to ward off the extreme anxiety that occurs when you start to come down. Every time I managed to stay off it long enough to sleep I would wake up swearing I would never touch it again, until the urge to just do a small line would over-take me. It always started with a tiny line. I literally did nothing but take MDPV and sit in front of the computer watching porn and trying to masturbate over and over again, and occasionally force myself to eat or sleep. It sounds stupid but it was like I was stuck in a loop, all I wanted to do was take it and wank. I lost my job and didn't care one bit. I stopped talking to almost all my friends and didn't care. I was feeling like a zombie, constantly experiencing a racing heart, numb feelings in my legs and weird cognitive changes and in spite of all this I couldn't stop. It wasn't even that euphoric when I was on it.

By week 6 I was starting to get really paranoid. I would start searching my house over and over again to see if anyone was there. I would also constantly look outside to see if someone was pulling up in my driveway. No matter how many times I checked the driveway I still felt like I had to check it again as soon as I started walking away. This started to interfere with the masturbation because I kept feeling like someone was coming to the house and had to put my pants on and go check. I was stuck between masturbating and constantly checking the front door. Halfway during week 6 I had to call a dealer and get a supply of GHB because it was the only way I could sleep. When he rocked up he commented on how pale and sick I looked, and even seemed hesitant about selling to me. My voice was jittery and I felt panicky just trying to have a conversation with him even though we normally joked around and got on fine.

By week 7 I was getting super-paranoid and felt like there were people walking around the house when I tried to sleep. Please note I have no history of mental illness, my grandparents on my mums side both lived through a concentration camp and my dads parents lived to their late 90's without developing mental problems so genetically there's no way i'm predisposed. It had got to the point where I was spending more time checking the house and front door than I was masturbating. I had lost a lot of weight and was shocked at how skinny I appeared in the mirror. The rest of the week is mostly a blur.

On week 8 I don't much recollection but my brother called while I was in the middle of checking my house with a knife in my hand. He asked me what the fuck was wrong and why had I quit my job and stopped talking to everyone. I looked in the mirror and realized what a mess I was. I looked skinny as fuck and had blue knees and elbows and horrible bags under my eyes and was pale as a ghost. I said I needed help and he said he was driving down to see me straight away (He lives 2 days drive away).

I don't really remember what happened next but my brother eventually got to my house and let himself in with his key. The place was trashed and I was unconscious in the living room with white powder under my nose shaking like I was having a mild seizure and the 50 gram bag of MDPV I had brought was on the table with less than a third left. He flushed it immediately and wiped my nose, buried all my utensils in my neighbors garden and called an ambulance. He managed to wake me up before they came but I was incoherent and rambling nonsensical words. They put me on a drug to lower my heart rate and blood pressure and administered Valium and kept me in hospital for 3 days. When I was able to talk I told them I had a psychotic episode after having my drink spiked at a party. I had an MRI scan and cardiogram which thankfully both came back normal.

My ability to hold conversations normally took more than a month to come back. I have also just recently stopped shaking. The anxiety I now have has interfered with my ability to work so I started a degree at university that I was taking a gap from after finishing high-school. Thankfully I do not feel my intelligence has been affected. My immune system feels weak now and I get sick fairly easily, I also have mild kidney problems and piss a lot. I have constant spells where I start to feel crazy for no reason, it's hard to describe but I just get disconnected feelings from my body, kind of like there is a pause between me seeing myself touching things (for example) and feeling the sensation of what i'm doing. I also have a variety of other weird cognitive symptoms that I hope will go away with time, too many to list here.

MDPV made me into a completely different person, looking back on it it's almost like a dream what I went through. I feel like I had a taste of what hell must be like, the constant anxiety, paranoia and psychological compulsion to do the same thing over and over again in spite of knowing what it's doing to you. I cannot explain in words how addictive and habituating snorting likes of it is. You just know what you're doing is bad for you, but you cant stop.

Please be warned, I am in favor of drug legalization in general, but I don't even know about MDPV. It is DANGEROUS.'I would honestly advise against experimenting with this, there are far safer and more euphoric things out there to try.
 
^ happens to a lot of people. happend to me as well :(

have you tried taking quetieapine (antipsychotic)? it reverses the paranoid/anxiety feeling induced by mdpv quite rapidly. 2-3 weeks of low dose regiment should revert you back to normal (300-600mg/day)
 
shit dude.

I got a little baggy of it the cloud 9 bath salt.... active ingrediant is mdpv but its cut so i am not sure how pure it is.

i took a little bit, a key bump, but did it oral and noticed very mild effects (prob because I only orally consumed something like 2mg )... I was gonna do some this weekend (was going to snort it) but after reading this thread I am thinking that I should just throw this baggie in the trash and not even try to have some fun with the stuff. I dont want to get addicted obviously and this thread seems like nothing but bad reviews of mdpv. thoughts?
 
Extremely informative post 'one time guy'. Due to lack of data, I value these subjective reports as they (particularly, collectively) provide insight into the compound. I learned in residence to NEVER discount a patient's symptoms , even if they seem entirely perceptual in nature or paradox. The little 'symptoms' can me life or death, and I've seen many times where such symptoms are overlooked or discounted, at the cost of a patients life.

Back to the point (and I am not trying to moderate); post like this belong here (not in 'trip reports'). The above account is highly informative, and it sheds light on to the pharmacological/toxicological actions of this pharmacologically " vague" compound.

For 'one time guy', can you list the data (for better perspective). Specifically, how long did you abuse, at what dose per day (rough average), maximum single dose used, in what route of administration (snorted, smoked, IV, etc), and any withdrawal symptoms. Do you feel like you have now gotten back to your" normal state", and if so, how long after cessation did it take to return to normal or near-normal. Did you ever hear voices on the drug that were NOT your own (ie, voices teling you do do thinks, etc). All this data would be greatly appreciated.
 
^ happens to a lot of people. happend to me as well :(

have you tried taking quetieapine (antipsychotic)? it reverses the paranoid/anxiety feeling induced by mdpv quite rapidly. 2-3 weeks of low dose regiment should revert you back to normal (300-600mg/day)

Don't anti-psychotics come with their own range of side-effects and problems? I'm just really wary about ingesting any kind of drug at the moment, unless it's for life-saving purposes.

For 'one time guy', can you list the data (for better perspective). Specifically, how long did you abuse, at what dose per day (rough average), maximum single dose used, in what route of administration (snorted, smoked, IV, etc), and any withdrawal symptoms. Do you feel like you have now gotten back to your" normal state", and if so, how long after cessation did it take to return to normal or near-normal. Did you ever hear voices on the drug that were NOT your own (ie, voices teling you do do thinks, etc). All this data would be greatly appreciated.

I abused heavily for an 8 week period, having taken it 4-5 times before that in low doses without problems of anxiety or paranoia and in social situations. I never measured dosages, I would just measure out TINY lines and snort them, because I knew it was a strong drug. During the binge those lines became quickly bigger, and by the end of it I was snorting lines the same size that one might do of cocaine or speed (At least 100mg). The high would wear off extremely fast too and leave me with EXTREME anxiety unless I quickly did another line within 45-60 minutes. The anxiety would get worse and worse the longer I put off having another line. At one point I considered going to the doctor but I realized I wouldn't be able to wait in reception without at least having a line with me so I wouldn't freak out. I would say I did around 30g over those 8 weeks, although i'm unsure of the exact amount because my brother flushed the bag while I was unconscious. I didn't hear actual voices while on it, just what sounded like people walking around my house, footsteps and scratching sounds and things like that.

I snorted lines pretty much exclusively except for a couple of times when I ate it.

I got withdrawal symptoms for about 2-3 weeks, just an intense desire to find a line really, heavy insomnia, and a mental preoccupation with the drug. The withdrawal's in itself weren't horribly bad in a physical sense, it was more psychological. I think the drug causes OCD symptoms in the way it habituates you to do the same things over and over again uncontrollably and that's why I couldn't stop snorting lines/masturabating/checking the front door/etc no matter how many times I told myself what I was doing was stupid and I needed to stop.

After ceasing it my conversations with people were weird and jittery and I couldn't 'connect' with people I was talking to if that makes sense, because of how zombie-like and dissociated I felt. This became normal within a month and I can know talk and converse with people without problems.

The anxiety hasn't gone away although my panic attacks have decreased from a 5-6 times a day to 2-3 times a week. It was REALLY bad at first and these attacks occur randomly and regardless of my psychological state, they don't seem to be triggered mentally. I have however developed some mild hypochondriac type problems in relation to my heart now, I habitually check it's resting rate and become concerned if it rises and go running 3-4 times a week in an effort to keep it healthy and steady (which I guess isn't so bad). These has also decreased slightly with my prolonged abstinence from MDPV.

The cognitive problems haven't gone away, and I really hope they eventually will. It's hard to describe but I get a kind of pause between seeing myself touch things and feeling the sensation of the touch, and I often feel like i'm not looking at my own body when I look at my hands, and sometimes it feels like parts of my body are numb even though they aren't if I check them. I also get mild vertigo that the doctors say is unrelated to my middle ear. I believe these symptoms are from the MDPV.

All the symptoms except the cognitive ones have decreased somewhat since stopping MDPV, except only the social problems have disappeared completely. The cognitive problems, although they haven't decreased, have become more managable since i've had them for so long now, but I really hope one day i'll be free of them.

Hope that helps.
 
THIS DRUG FUCKED ME UP.



Sorry you fucked yourself up with pv. Sounds like a horrible experience no-one needs to go through. Hope you make a complete recovery soon and thanks for sharing your story. That being said, I'd like to point out that it's entirely you who is responsible for what happened. You were tooting at a pace of almost 4g pv per week for 8weeks...which is an insane amount. The substance itself is certainly not to blame. Not trying to be harsh but just sayin' it like it is. 1sth4monic (guy with cloud9) shouldn't be discouraged from trying it because of stories like this where somebody fucked themselves up by doing way way too much. Keep the doses small and you'll be much better off.
 
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Exceptional. One last question, did you feel as compelled to" re-dose" with methamphetamine, cocaine or any hard drug (including alcohol)?

This compounds seems to be highly" reinforcing" and particularly subjective to compulsive re-doses. Even myself, having used much cocaine and to lesser extent meth without issue (IV cocaine i lost some control, and blew almost 7 grams of very good cocaine in a 3 day binge, many years ago). I have used and abused d-MPH of and on, which also has a compulsive redose element, but with MDPV I had to end up flushing the powder down my toilet (i have never flushed a drug before).

And onetimeguy, do not worry, you will very likely return to equilibrium based on what you posted. As both a physician and past drug polyabuser (opioids and depressants were my poison) i cannot guarantee a full return, but from my experience a case like the one you described is insufficient for 'tangable' permanent damage. If it continues, post it and i will re-evaluted (hey, i might a newbie physician, but free advice....................).
 
It seems like this drug could be a great assay for people doing studies on genetic links to addiction. I have no desire to redose on this. Besides, this is a pretty shitty drug to get high off anyway. To me, its a decent short acting functional stimulant with moderate euphoria. I agree about there being a hint of 5HT action to this. Feelings of empathy do show up unlike 2DPMP for example. This is also the only stimulant I've heard voices on (3 days at 5-10mg per day) although there was no accompanying anxiety.
 
Is meth more addicting than MDPV?

Can anyone compare the two drugs in terms of MOA (quick summary) , percieved (anecdotal) effects, addiction, etc.
It seems once you're "hooked" on meth it's VERY difficult to stop it, while afaik MDPV is "easier" to halt, maybe because it's more "brutal", shorter lasting, and ultimately ends with a crash and burn. But, meth can also end with a crash and burn, yet we see more long-term users of meth.
 
I have had habits with both methamphetamine and MDPV. My habit with methamphetamine never really evolved into an addiction, and was very short. My habit with MDPV quickly and mercilessly turned into a full blown addiction, and I ended up spending the better part of a year high on it chasing shadow people.

However, after over a year of steady usage, I ran out of funds (+ zero income, staying away from illegal means as I'm on probation). I was able to call it quits easier than I was with my cannabis usage. No physical symptoms were present except for about a week of lethargy and overeating/oversleeping, which could probably be attributed to the physical exhaustion more than anything else.

I know from my short trial of methamphetamine along with the tales of many an addict that this would not be the case if the tables were turned, and it was methamphetamine that I had been abusing for over a year.

I started IV'ing the MDPV very early on and basically was exclusively injecting it the entire time. IV'ed, MDPV reminds me very much of cocaine, without the serotonergic component. Its just a pure, plain, dopamine reward, that comes in a rush. I definitely grew to savor it more as my usage progressed. The timeline is also very similar. It hits instantly, the first rush seems to fade around 5 minutes or so, but the high still lasts a few hours. The compulsiveness is insane, and most of the time I would be fixing another shot in 5 - 10 minutes after the last one.

IV methamphetamine has a greater potential of actually satisfying you for a reasonable amount of time.

So for me, MDPV was:
  • More psychologically addicting in the short term.
  • Less 'deeply' ingrained in my psyche, easier to recover / walk away from.
All in all, I find the price and availability of MDPV to be one of its most addictive qualities, if methamphetamine were priced the same I would undoubtedly be hopelessly addicted to it.
 
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Yes that seems like an accurate assessment. But ektamine, did you also experience toxic psychosis from your use?

And due to its only weak 5-HT activity at high doses, it likely does not have the" emotional" attachment seen with a drug like cocaine. Even though it never caught on for me, I still like cocaine, have memories of euphoria, mood-lift etc. MDPV does trigger that dopaminergic reward, but does not have the serotonergic mood lift seen in cocaine. So yes, while MDPV is very" addictive", I can definitely understand someone quiting after a year, not fantasying about it, etc, as is seen in coke and meth.

As to the point of this thread, i am going to make an assumption that (if the product is pure), it should technically be less neurotoxic than methamphetamine, if taken intranasally or orally. There is insufficient data to make the same assumption about the smoked and possibly IV route.

Do not take this as medical advise; consult your personal physician before consuming (not they would know what MDPV is......)
 
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