May Recovery Thread

[Captain.Heroin]

My best friend had that same spine problem, before he died, and he had it a large part of his life. I'm sorry to hear that man.

My friend drank to deal with the pain, and died as a result of it. It's a scary prognosis. That doesn't mean you have to use. You can find a rich life without heroin, or excessive opiate abuse (you can still use it responsibly as per doc's orders if you have legit pain right?)

CJ you deal with your problems remarkably well and you're one of the stronger people I know. I wish I had half of your strength and courage. I could trade a tiny bit of will power for it and then maybe we'd both be way better off lol ?

I'm wishing you the best of luck. I still consider you an amazing friend, and I know things will work out for you IF you want them to. You have friends out here who care about you and can help, let us know if you ever need it ok?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Its one thing to know intellectually that 9/10 people relapse after rehab but its another to see it up close and personal. The house has a 100% relapse rate in the 2 months i have been here. It just makes it hard to establish friendships in a new place when there is such instability.

...

My worst fear of being an opiate addict with chronic pain seems to be materializing.Its not good.

as you know, i've experienced this recently too. its fucked. and its made me reevaluate who i want to make friends with. i'm happy enough on my own most of the time so its not an issue for me. keep trying though, someone will come good eventually, maybe just wait until you think someone is stable before making any emotional investment?

have you spoken to your doctor about your back? i had that fear as well cos i was told i'd get arthritis in my smashed up elbow by the time i was 30. i asked in rehab and they said for arthritis now, opioids are contra indicated. if you're lucky that might be the case for you too.

well. my May is going OK. got a lot of big changes coming up and i'm worried about how tired i'll be working full time and trying to keep up a decent amount of recovery activities.

got through the month so far clean even though i'd promised, since i'd lost my clean time in April, I'd do heroin for my birthday. by the time the day came i made sure i didn't have the opportunity and i didn't regret it. i've learned that clean time really is NOT a proxy for recovery.

 

[Opi_Kid_Rock]

I was worried I was going to freak out on somebody at work yesterday but it went surprisingly well...thanks to long-acting benzos. 12 step programs seem very culty for me right now after attending an intensive meeting two afternoons ago. Seeing these people attend these meetings who have attended for over 25 years for X's sake. After I'm done withdrawing, I don't see a point in tithing some of my income to this group or any other for the rest of my life if I don't want to. I wonder how the people of NA/AA at the National level exploit the funds collected just like the CEOs of any major relief organization giving themselves 6 figure salaries plus bonuses and stock options and travel percs. I don't feel anxious today; so surprised compared to Cold Turkeying it seven days and seven nights of hell last month. It's hard for me to buy into these dudes (and dudetts ) at NA/AA, I know they may mean well some of them. If I need to ask in order to get a sponsor then I'll probably never end up getting one. I'm quite the loner and hardly trust that anyone would be selfless and act without EGO or become less needy than I over time.

 

[Jabberwocky]

the point is to keep you clean. the theory of all 12 step fellowships is that you don't have a problem with drugs, you have a problem with you, and action needs to be taken to sort yourself out (which needs to be taken once you're clean), and they recommend the 12 steps.

i strongly doubt that enough is collected for anyone to make serious money. one of my support workers in rehab was treasurer for the area or something, and said for the entirety of the west midlands, the average take is £0.33 per head. most meetings i know struggle to cover rent and tea.

you need to ask to get a sponsor because that person should be someone that has something in their recovery that you admire, and that you feel like you can open up to. they can't decide that for you. if someone you're listening to sounds like they're telling your story, and they have the necessary clean time, then ask them to be your sponsor.

its impossible to tell the efficacy of NA, because you only ever see people who buy into it in the meetings. its not a statistically valid sample. there will be people who get years clean outside the rooms, but you won't know. the way i view it is that, overall the chances of relapse are huge, and i'm prepared to do anything to avoid that. it seems like getting advice from people who have suffered like i have is better than making shit up myself (i couldn't even sustain a half arsed attempt to get clean).

that said, i'm not sure about the steps right now, but i find the meetings super helpful for getting shit out, and usually hear some wise words.

 

[Opi_Kid_Rock]

the point is to keep you clean. the theory of all 12 step fellowships is that you don't have a problem with drugs, you have a problem with you, and action needs to be taken to sort yourself out (which needs to be taken once you're clean), and they recommend the 12 steps.

i strongly doubt that enough is collected for anyone to make serious money. one of my support workers in rehab was treasurer for the area or something, and said for the entirety of the west midlands, the average take is £0.33 per head. most meetings i know struggle to cover rent and tea.

you need to ask to get a sponsor because that person should be someone that has something in their recovery that you admire, and that you feel like you can open up to. they can't decide that for you. if someone you're listening to sounds like they're telling your story, and they have the necessary clean time, then ask them to be your sponsor.

its impossible to tell the efficacy of NA, because you only ever see people who buy into it in the meetings. its not a statistically valid sample. there will be people who get years clean outside the rooms, but you won't know. the way i view it is that, overall the chances of relapse are huge, and i'm prepared to do anything to avoid that. it seems like getting advice from people who have suffered like i have is better than making shit up myself (i couldn't even sustain a half arsed attempt to get clean).

that said, i'm not sure about the steps right now, but i find the meetings super helpful for getting shit out, and usually hear some wise words.

Chinup,

Thank you for expanding on the 12 step programs and correcting my misinformed ideas regarding their finances. There was one guy who really echoed compared to all the others. I'll try to approach him to talk bull for a little before committing to anything like asking him to be my sponsor.
My problem is is that in defiance of the NA philosophy and key-chain "Just for today" I received, I'm not clean according to their definition. T3s and Clonaz otherwise I wouldn't be able to hold my job. I would lose my job! I am in withdrawal in every sense of the word and my CNS had been screwed before Clonaz to the rescue so that I don't flip out on a co-worker. A sponsor at this point would be like have you used in last few days. And I'd be like "yes, every single day. Beer, T3s for diarrhea and clonaz so that I don't get fired from my job. I'm in withdrawal right NOW!" The key-chain should read "Just for sometime for a day next week or the week after after I'm done withdrawing like a crazy bastard."

 

[Captain.Heroin]

I felt terrible this morning so I took some xanax. I'm beginning to understand I really do need this medicine sometimes.

I'm feeling a little better. I have so many things to do and my mind still wants to shut down.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Opi- you don't need to be clean to get a sponsor, but you do need to make a commitment, and you need to be clean to start the steps.

also, no-one at NA should EVER tell you what medication to take/not take, that is medical advice and they are not qualified to give it. so if you are taking something as prescribed by a doctor, and not abusing it, then you count as clean, unless its maintenance therapy to prevent withdrawals, in which case you need to taper as agreed by the doctor and not abuse anything else, then once you're done you're clean. there's no point in rushing it when you need to go about your daily life as well, and anyone at NA who tells you to stop all at once is giving medical advice which is irresponsible.

 

[Stargazer]

Aarons unexpected passing has me feeling very sad I know how hard he struggled with alcohol I also know he was striving to make a better life for himself It really hurts to lose him

I'm now helping someone, who at one time, did everything in their power to ruin my life at the absolute worst time in my life I was suicidal, and this person was pushing me close to ending it Funny how life comes full circle Now that I'm in a different place, I can see how troubled and insecure and fucked up this person really is

I'm over people that make every fucking thing about themselves - day after day, month after month , year after year I don't understand how they're not embarrassed or...bored Don't you get sick of inserting yourself on every situation The only credit I can kind of give is they seem aware that people don't generally like them Just venting Tolerance is the lesson

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Stargazer I can really connect with what you're going through. Aaron was a great guy, and my best friend also struggled with alcohol quite a bit. It's so sad to have seen the latter die so young (I'm not aware of how old Aaron was).

Much love to everyone.

I've got so many things to do it's a bit overwhelming but I should be fine.

 

[cj]

Opi- you don't need to be clean to get a sponsor, but you do need to make a commitment, and you need to be clean to start the steps.

also, no-one at NA should EVER tell you what medication to take/not take, that is medical advice and they are not qualified to give it. so if you are taking something as prescribed by a doctor, and not abusing it, then you count as clean, unless its maintenance therapy to prevent withdrawals, in which case you need to taper as agreed by the doctor and not abuse anything else, then once you're done you're clean. there's no point in rushing it when you need to go about your daily life as well, and anyone at NA who tells you to stop all at once is giving medical advice which is irresponsible.

My biggest beef with NA is its stance on maintenance meds. Why a program aimed at saving lives would be against medications proven to cut relapse risk in half is beyond me. I think some people get so caught up in the identity of ''being sober'' that they lose sight of the whole purpose being to improve quality of life.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

As long as you want to be sober or not relapse/get high anymore that should be enough. Even if you're just thinking about sobriety or cutting back we welcome it here. I wish NA would be the same way.

However if they didn't have "abstinence only" rules people might be tempted to try going to NA meetings to score subs/methadone.

 

[cj]

I guess. I have never met an addict who didnt have good instincts on where to score drugs. Most cities have neighborhoods where dealing is the primary occupation

 

[Opi_Kid_Rock]

As long as you want to be sober or not relapse/get high anymore that should be enough. Even if you're just thinking about sobriety or cutting back we welcome it here. I wish NA would be the same way.

However if they didn't have "abstinence only" rules people might be tempted to try going to NA meetings to score subs/methadone.

There was a member of NA, an organizer of a small meeting that said he is currently maintaining on Methadone. So prescribed and so in accord with the NA philosophy. What's the big fing deal if I taper by taking a benzo here and there. I'm doing betting than him in my opinion. Worked 3 days straight 9 hour shifts each and I was a good employee thanks to long-acting benzos. And I intend to stop the benzos after one full week; started Friday. Ending next Friday. That's the dogmatic and Cultish aspect of NA. 25 years attending meetings some of these members...fk that! I'm going to put that money into a broadly diversified Index Fund and let it grow.

 

[Jabberwocky]

My biggest beef with NA is its stance on maintenance meds. Why a program aimed at saving lives would be against medications proven to cut relapse risk in half is beyond me. I think some people get so caught up in the identity of ''being sober'' that they lose sight of the whole purpose being to improve quality of life.

that's definitely true and i realised myself recently, that clean time and recovery really aren't the same thing.

i can kinda get why they say that the long term goal should be to come off maintenance treatment though from my experiences with anorexia. i was losing weight stupidly fast and was not eligible for treatment because, to be receptive to it, you have to have a healthy BMI because of the effects of low weight on reasoning, that is medically accepted. i could not stop losing weight, ended up in treatment anyway when my BMI was about to hit the mandatory hospitalisation limit and it became medically urgent that i get some care ASAP, so i went to rehab. it did fuck all, i came out of that treatment having gained no weight and a way larger benzo problem than i went in. it doesn't seem a stretch to suggest that maintenance therapy also affects your reasoning and therefore you can't get the most benefits from the program.

though i've not been on maintenance i've used a fair bit of subutex and tried methadone, both of them numbed me, so i wouldn't have had a chance to face my real demons while on them.

that said, it does look like there is a nascent 12 step group for people on methadone.

As long as you want to be sober or not relapse/get high anymore that should be enough. Even if you're just thinking about sobriety or cutting back we welcome it here. I wish NA would be the same way.

it is enough!! i was welcome at NA when i was still using, even in meetings, and didn't even want to get clean, just wanted my life to get better.

What's the big fing deal if I taper by taking a benzo here and there.
....
That's the dogmatic and Cultish aspect of NA.

there's no big deal.

yep it is dogmatic, but its based on their past experience. which may or may not be representative of addicts in general.

i thought complete abstinence was dogmatic and cultish til i confirmed for myself that what they say about using any drug was completely true, at least for me. i was gonna have 2 alcoholic drinks on 1 day at a festival. that day i drank for about 10 hours solid, also consumed cocaine, clonazepam and codeine. then continued (except coke) for another 2 days. then spent 5 days tapering codeine cos i'd done enough to rattle. i'd left my purse at home, so my friend was lending me money. he let me do coke one night but said he would never speak to me again if i asked the next day. if i'd have had my purse i'd have lost my best friend for 16 years, who is also the man i want to marry, cos i would have been able to score myself and literally as soon as i had any mind altering drug in me i wanted more more more and didn't give a shit about him.

that said, i intend to probably do the same thing at the same festival next year. it was super fun. and i stopped in the end, just after consuming a lot more for a lot longer than intended. so i'm not doing exactly what NA says.

edit* fuck me that was a long post sorry for the essay

 

[Captain.Heroin]

this morning is going well for me.

 

[cj]

We will have to agree to disagree on that one chinup. My demons are plenty strong on both subs and methadone. Plus i have seen that same reasoning used to justify telling people they cant work the program on ssri and other phych meds. Bill Wilson himself was a proponent of methadone and asked pharma executives to develop a maintenance drug for alcoholics.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

cj just because stuff like suboxone, methadone may not fully work for you in your addiction in an out-patient setting right now (I know you are trying something diff. at the moment than I Just described), doesn't mean it might not in the future.

I know I changed and I didn't think I could; we all have our own path, and I truly have faith you'll get there.

 

[cj]

Suboxone works fine honestly. It doesn't change the fundamental calculus but it controls my cravings for them most part. I mainly use because my life sucks not because i am having intense cravings

 

[Captain.Heroin]

it's not your fault your life sucks man but you can do things to improve it day by day. And even when things are good for me sometimes I feel like crap still for a variety of reasons.

You can have a good life too one day, maybe you won't be happy all the time but you'll find contentment one day. I know you will. You're too smart not to.

I've been a bit out of control myself because of how bad real life got for a while and I'm trying to reel myself back in now. And it's hard considering going out of control seemed to help my... I don't know... ability to cope. There's a small part of me that wants to just let go and have all hell break loose and just hang myself in the end but the rest of me is holding on.

I'm having a remarkably good day because I felt loved for the first time in a while and it wasn't real it's just nice to know I can still feel that way as if someone gives a shit even if they don't. I'm not completely mentally broken even though I often feel this way.

You know how bad my mind can get I am sure so try to remember you're not the only one hitting low points, some people out there can connect at least in part to how you feel or some of the things you are going through. Most importantly we all deeply care about you, friend.

 

[Opi_Kid_Rock]

it's not your fault your life sucks man but you can do things to improve it day by day. And even when things are good for me sometimes I feel like crap still for a variety of reasons.

You can have a good life too one day, maybe you won't be happy all the time but you'll find contentment one day. I know you will. You're too smart not to.

I've been a bit out of control myself because of how bad real life got for a while and I'm trying to reel myself back in now. And it's hard considering going out of control seemed to help my... I don't know... ability to cope. There's a small part of me that wants to just let go and have all hell break loose and just hang myself in the end but the rest of me is holding on.

I'm having a remarkably good day because I felt loved for the first time in a while and it wasn't real it's just nice to know I can still feel that way as if someone gives a shit even if they don't. I'm not completely mentally broken even though I often feel this way.

You know how bad my mind can get I am sure so try to remember you're not the only one hitting low points, some people out there can connect at least in part to how you feel or some of the things you are going through. Most importantly we all deeply care about you, friend.

CaptainH,

Over the last two months while heavy using Opioids, I also wished I was dead every single day; I envied those who were dying of terminal cancer or some other condition. I was so depressed. Today in particular, not so much. But Manic Depression type 2 is a strange beast. Sometimes my prescribed Quetiapine/Seroquel works and sometimes not so much I guess.