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Males are the problem, but...

T

twentysix

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Males are a (changed from the) the problem, but...

I was looking at some news today, and the focus was Iran. I began thinking again about how men are pretty much the reason for all of the world's problems. Men are the only ones to write down religious laws, and demand punishments for if they're broken. Men are the ones who have developed weapons to better destroy each other. Men fear. Men fear other men. Women fear men. Women don't really fear other women, quite the same as they fear men. Men are dangerous.

Many advancements in science and technology have come from men. A man most likely made the first wheel(s). Men, on levels, can be seen to play a vital role here... but we also keep this world in shit. We demand death and stoning for offenses that should never demand such a punishment. Etc. I guess I'm using the middle east as sort of an example of how ugly men are. I'm definitely not singling them out, as it exists everywhere... We are fucking crazy.

As many things as "men" have brought us, as a species, there are countless things... I don't really see any of them as good, really. I see men as a perpetual problem... however, the one truly redeeming quality of men, is that their technology and wars to force us to come up with new technology, and demands of energy (and ways to get it), through their insanity, we might have the potential to reach outer-space and colonize other rocks, or even build our own solar systems at some point or another (but at this point we might not be "human". we might not even be biological. at this point we'll be one step away form creating entire universes. we might become the "angels" there.)... through fire? I guess we have to be this way, but it sucks. But will it pay off? Will we escape extinction? That's another, simple positive that men might give humanity.. the tact to find a way to survive catastrophic events.

I'm not saying that women aren't capable of the same things, but their hormones have mostly geared them for other purposes other than manufacturing spears to pierce things, including atmospheres. Men pierce. They need to learn when it's necessary, though. But perhaps.. if they learned too quickly, or if they do.. they won't reach their potentials.

anyways... just a thought. I'm sure it's not new.
 
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Men are the more dynamic of the sexes. Whether that manifests itself in science, or religious zealotry is a matter of circumstance.

Both sexes are necessary pieces of the development of humankind in so many ways. To say that men are the problem is such ignorance it is astounding.

I really don't see this topic going anywhere good, but then again this forum is dominated by women.....
 
True, I'm not saying it's all on men. Both play roles. But men are pretty much the problem that I'm seeing. "Problem" might also go to "solver" as well, as they create problems, and (have to) solve problems.

A problem, as I detailed, aside from my frustration with "men" (fuckers keep your insane thoughts to yourself.. don't write them down asshole.. oh me. they had to. someone had to, to see it was fucked, so that someone smarter got rid of it for good, sometime in the future), can be good.


I just can't imagine a woman-dominated world with territorial borders... either. There'd be a lot of communication. I'm not saying women are so peaceful, but you don't see them starting wars. But then again stripping the male away form it all, life wouldn't exist, of course. I just prefer more balance than what is currently. Hopefully we'll get there.



I didn't see it going anywhere either. Twas a thought I had in anger of seeing men impose their views on others, in general. Of course, not new. I'm a hypocrite though, as I wish I had ultimate power to just kill off any problem I saw. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Good thing I don't have that power, I guess, or we'll never make our own universe. (Then again, with ultimate power... hehhe... blahblahblahblahblah)

But.. that's the unbalanced male in me. Ideally, I'd use that ultimate power to transform them.. make them see light.
 
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Women do start wars, depending on which side of the fence you sit on. Margaret Thatcher for one thing, among others, without wanting to get too political.

I work in a female oriented occupation and have moved to the corporate sector in recent years ... the manipulative, backstabbing, ruthless, arrogant behaviour I've seen from female managers and directors (women in roles with power) is astounding. Put it this way, I've had equally good and bad female and male managers but have never had a male manager stab me in the back the way I had a female team leader do to me once - taking credit for a proposal I put forward after ignoring all my emails and discussions about it, just as an example.

To be honest, I don't see any gender dominance as being healthy - men and women working together is the ideal but we come from such different mind-sets it often doesn't work unfortunately.
 
Both are necessary and irreplaceable pieces of the puzzle. The whole conversation is based on the premise that there is something inherently bad about the mentality of men in the first place. Sure men can be bad people, maybe more-so than women but men are also the leaders of society and are generally the shape the thoughts of humans, which leads to advancement. You have to take the good with the bad.
 
Hmm...Have you ever heard of a comic called Y:The Last man?

Its a very interesting graphic novel about a the last man alive on earth after something mysteriously causes all the males of every kind to die. Its a very well thought out and wonderfully written story about how life goes on without men.

And makes plenty of good points about how it isnt one sex or another that is "bad". We certainly live in a patriarchal society but the worlds problems cannot and should not be placed on one sex. I tend to think of myself as a tomboy because i actually think on average guys tend to be less dramatic and i think women are kinda bitchy sometimes. But that's just my point of view and i know very well that the are dramatic men and women.
 
i find i settle somewhere in the middle eventually. sometimes i get these flare-ups of anger. can become quite one sided, wishing it'd just stop... seeing things from the outside, seeing such stupidity. i don't think a female dominated world would be any better than the one now, or i can accept that that's very likely the case. balance is key, for sure.

right now, i just have to admit i'm not seeing the other side very well.

sounds interesting (Y:The Last Man). i remember seeing a short sci-fi show about a world where men had been made obsolete... women could get pregnant by themselves, and a guy suddenly showed up somehow. forget how, but it was a good one. just reminded me. wish i had the natural inclination to get into novels. i tend to be all over the place.

i know women can be pretty evil, too, and conniving, and have been known to do some things i wouldn't normally see men doing, and vice versa.

but as care has stated, it seems males are "more" in a way, generally.. not to say that women are "less"- however. words, and my lack of ability to use them. the sexes are definitely inseparable. also, care.. it did start out that way, as you say (the premise of men being bad)... but seeing through my anger, i did see an end that basically mooted everything i initially said, quite possibly negating "bad" as a judgment all together. but then again, that pattern can lead to dangerous territory; "the end justifies the means" attitudes that can lead to some pretty evil things, and justifying them. anyway not to ramble.

also, i have to believe that women are capable of being just as dynamic, but as a general rule, men have shown.. perhaps to be more explosive, and as a result more dynamic? leave me out of it. you know what i try to mean. testosterone plays a part, perhaps?

i may have chosen the wrong title... pretty extreme. But I guess I did say but...



i'm going to retreat now, though. i don't know if i can really add anything else. i was just pissed. still, what others have brought is great. would perhaps like to hear more ideas.
 
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Any thing a man does is to impress a woman or because a woman demands it. Men will sit together and share a drink and dick size because it is fun. Women sit together and share a laugh and wait until someone leaves to go to the bathroom before stabbing them in the back. Many women in business will tell you the real glass ceiling comes not from men but from other women. Women are more likely to be jealous of other women.

I'm pretty sure if mark Anthony and Julius Caesar shared a beer up in heaven they would both agree that cleopatra was/is a manipulative bitch.
 
Women should take more control. It's a cold world and power only yields to force. Perhaps, in a more progressive age, when women have gained more ground in control of world affairs, will they have sympathy for what men have done so far.
 
That's typical feminist historical perspective that the OP offered. You'd probably get better play for this in CEP forum.
but, that's not important.

Patriarchy...Matriarchy...it's all "archy."

Busty makes a good point, women are perpetrators just as much as men are. There is no salvation by turning to the other sex. There have been several all-powerful female leaders in history, and they showed themselves to be just as ambitious and warlike as any male ruler. I don't think they acted so to impress men or "had something to prove" either. They, like men, did because they could, and because they didn't regard a higher morality to judge their actions.

The girls in the SLR forum still rave about traits like confidence, ambition, and determination, and they could choose to revere things like compassion, gentleness, and love, but simply aren't doing so. So, what kind of world do you think we will have when traits needed for "competition" outweigh traits essential to "peace, love, and harmony."
 
you should check out Y: the Last Man

in it most primates with a Y chromosome become extinct. women inherit the Earth. however, you will notice not much changes. the foreign societies that have bothered to train women (usually out of force) in the military come out on top (Israel). while racism is still rampant, to the point where a black woman in the US in Boston refuses to still walk the streets of Boston's Southie Neighborhood (a hood dominated by lower-to-middle class Irish toughs, until recent gentrification). the black woman said something to the effect that just because all the men are gone, doesn't mean racism is gone

and that's sort of my point. men do the most evil now, no doubt - but if they were to all of a sudden stop for whatever reason, I'm sure women would find ways to be almost just as evil. we're all humans, here
 
Actually, Miss vanilla made the best post, I missed that one the first time I read the thread.

panic in paradise said:
I also feel the true nature of man is peace...
Click to expand...

I think what both men and women really want in this world is peace, and the proof that I take to be that this is our true nature, if we can have one, is that we are very unhappy in this current state of competition and war.
 
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The OP seems to have forgotten that men do all these things for women. We go to war, kill each other, destroy the planet to prove ourselves stronger than other men, with the sole purpose of attracting a mate. This is the reason all species fight.

Women are the cause of the problems.
 
hijklmn considered this, but chose not to focus on that. hijklmn believes that man should be more conscious, and consider always this fact in his actions, before acting (he does not, mostly). i understand that we're very mate-finding driven. one could easily say it's all sex, but we can't say women cause it, exactly. assigning cause is just too tricky.

and women cause men, but men cause women. it's circular.

but i'm a guy, and i have to admit that you're right.. but it's not as if women intend for men to act like fucking idiots (retarded, really. they belong in special schools). it's up to men, to not. or... a stronger woman, to show them the way. ;)



as well, i'm kind of .. well.. i want the best. and i believe that in order to procure the most or best mates, i should conduct myself as best as i can, which includes being conscious and considerate of others (i believe the best mates would respect this, and expect nothing less of me).... but there are so many men that just think they can take things by force, still. and they can... but not everything, which is what i want, and so many others try to take forcibly. this paragraph is sort of an aside, i guess. the fact that i want everything might give me nothing, in a sense, as i have found... but at least i'm not forcing myself on others. maybe i get a different kind of mate (in a spiritual sense, i'm speaking). stopping before i try to talk metaphysics, or something.

though, there is a lot to be had from exercising certain force in situations, but once again... men need education.

uhh. more.. i have to say that i know that many men when you talk to them, will agree, and say yes we need to act more like God (or a Buddha... Etc). but yea, i too wish i had the only nuclear weapons in the world, sometimes. but then i see it'd be better if we ALL had nuclear weapons capable of reaching everywhere, then we'd all say hey.. what's the point in this? we're all awake now.
 
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You can't lay this all at our feet.

Men are and will always be responsible for nearly everything that happens, whether good or bad. Women don't factor in as much because a statistically significant amount spend their most productive years bearing and caring for children. Unless as a race we decide to stop procreating this isn't likely to ever change.
 
I think it's really simplistic to say conflict is caused by sex or men wanting a mate - we're not in prehistoric times after all. We go to war because we want to assert our political or economic power over other countries. Maybe some soldiers might go to war to impress their girlfriend but you could argue that some people might also choose to fight in a war to please their parents or impress their friends. I don't think that's the norm though, I think most people fighting in wars are doing a job, like anyone else.

Men and women are responsible for the good and bad in the world. I really can't go down the path of blaming one or the other gender, there's too many variables involved.
 
True, this can't be applied for every person on the planet (maybe not even most). But in general, women seem to be attracted to men with fortune and power, and a good number of wars are fought by men over land and authority.

Saying that men fight wars for the affection of women is just as valid as saying that men are the ones doing the fighting.

The entire idea this thread is based around is overly simplistic.
 
Let us look at this. {men} {women} subsets of {people}

So {men} + {women}= {people}

Any traits we call good or bad, like intelligence or compassion or peacefulness, while regress towards the mean and we will find men and women are generally speaking, quite similar.
 
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