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Lucifer

^Your conception of Lucifer seems a bit different to other, less christian ones which call him 'Light bearer/bringer'.
 
Yep, like this :



The last albums of Entombed as were so great for people into death/thrash/doom metal (they're a mix of all three, of course Left Hand Path their first album and Clandestine the second are mentioned so often, but Morning Star and Inferno were amazing, and the lyrics can be funny but they definitely are real satanists, with a small s, acknowledging that humans are easily stained creatures, but how one can use one's perceived negative traits to actually succeed. The lyrics to this one are particularly great so I chose it.

Bringer Of Light

Listen
No-one knows
True evil never shows
You cannot see it's face
True evil travels without trace
No, it never dies
Always on the rise
Evil this good need no disguise

Shit-caked
Moral slide
Soul-sized token entry ride
No, it never dies
A modern hell is an enterprise

[chorus:]
At the head of all tables
Bringer of light
Here I am
I'm your man
I will kill you if I must
I will help you if I can
I'm your man
At the head of all tables
Here I am
I'm your man
I will help you if I must
I will kill you if I can

It's a cosmic gag reel
Life turning on itself
Cathedral-sized egos
Empty top shelves

The rules are set in opposition
It's the goof of all times
Schoolgirls selling sex
At intermission
It's OK, it's not a crime

I give you pleasure
Fulfill every need
I take the bricks out of the briefcase
I set this whole thing free

I am your man

[chorus]
 
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LOL. I guess it's true the world is being prepared for Luciferianism. Seems to have a lot of appeal to younger people these days,
 
“Can we then say that Lucifer is evil, or can we say that Lucifer is good? One can only say that if a man maintains that Lucifer is evil, and that we must flee from him, then it must also be said that we must avoid fire, because in certain circumstances it destroys life. On the path of initiation we find that the words good and evil cannot be used in this way for the description of any being of the super-sensible world order. Fire is good when it acts in good conditions, evil when it works in evil ones; in itself it is neither the one nor the other. So it is with Lucifer. He exercises a good influence on man's soul when he becomes the instigator of man's sacrifice on the altar of human evolution of all that is most individual in his soul. Lucifer becomes an evil being rather, what he does becomes evil — when he arouses impulses leading only to self-gratification in the human soul. Thus, once our attention has been drawn to these beings, we have to follow up the effect their deeds have in the world. The acts of super-sensible beings can be described as good or bad; the beings themselves, never!”

— Rudolf Steiner, INITIATION, ETERNITY AND THE PASSING MOMENT

Edit
I'm gonna play Devil's advocate on behalf of Lucifer here and add this article in an attempt balance the argument.

In the occult, Lucifer is often referred to as the 'morning star.' In the Bible, you will find this same exact reference to Jesus as well who says in Revelation 22:16 - "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

You see, just as Lucifer is known as the morning star, Jesus also calls himself 'the bright morning star' and as I stated above, Manly P. Hall had said, "Lucifer, in the form of Venus, is the morning star spoken of in Revelation, which is to be given to those who overcome the world." Hence, rest assured that Jesus and Lucifer are one and the same which will become clearly evident to those with an eye to see the true light amongst the darkness in which we live.
Click to expand...

http://gnosticwarrior.com/lucifer.html
 
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Not sure if we should necessarily try to flee from Lucifer, as in a sense the mere presence of Lucifer is unavoidable. However, there seems to be a trend going the other way these days. Everyone has become fed up with the problems of society, and it's definitely correct that it has become completely fucked up bordering on being beyond repair. I personally don't see how Lucifer would improve the situation though.
 
Maybe if we moved away from all the beliefs in deities and demons and such and focused on our psychology we might, just might, make some progress in culture and society.
 
THE_REAL_OBLIVION said:
Yep, like this :



The last albums of Entombed as were so great for people into death/thrash/doom metal (they're a mix of all three, of course Left Hand Path their first album and Clandestine the second are mentioned so often, but Morning Star and Inferno were amazing, and the lyrics can be funny but they definitely are real satanists, with a small s, acknowledging that humans are easily stained creatures, but how one can use one's perceived negative traits to actually succeed. The lyrics to this one are particularly great so I chose it.

Bringer Of Light

Listen
No-one knows
True evil never shows
You cannot see it's face
True evil travels without trace
No, it never dies
Always on the rise
Evil this good need no disguise

Shit-caked
Moral slide
Soul-sized token entry ride
No, it never dies
A modern hell is an enterprise

[chorus:]
At the head of all tables
Bringer of light
Here I am
I'm your man
I will kill you if I must
I will help you if I can
I'm your man
At the head of all tables
Here I am
I'm your man
I will help you if I must
I will kill you if I can

It's a cosmic gag reel
Life turning on itself
Cathedral-sized egos
Empty top shelves

The rules are set in opposition
It's the goof of all times
Schoolgirls selling sex
At intermission
It's OK, it's not a crime

I give you pleasure
Fulfill every need
I take the bricks out of the briefcase
I set this whole thing free

I am your man

[chorus]
Click to expand...


Well I take exception to this being music for "kids". Their highly celebrated first album was in 1990, "Left Hand Path". These are full grown swedish men. If you don't want to listen to such music, you could find their rather interesting lyrics, I recommend the lyrics of MY 2 favourite albums though, Morning Star and Inferno.

This one I can't help but smirk when I listen to it, I'll just put it in the lyrics and then drop the subject ;)
[h=3]Out Of Heaven[/h]
One, two!

Selling sin is easy
Tainted empty V
Your eyes are heavy by the things you see
An uncontrolled addiction
You're all hooked up
A lost generation that's all corrupt

Why don't you know that you're all being sold
Chased out of heaven
Down into the hole
You don't know

Life it ain't that easy
Living on your knees
Your eyes been blinded
Doing everything to please
Empty V religion
Requires no response
It makes up your opinion more than once

Are you really for sale?
You have not yet failed

Why don't you know that you're all being sold
Chased out of heaven
Down into the hole
You don't know

Charismatic Selflessness
Fall out of your role
You don't know
Check out your colors
In your feeding frenzy soul
All hooked up
Drifting out of focus
In and out of control
All corrupt
Check from Heaven
Now feeding the hole
No response

Are you really for sale
You have not yet failed

Charismatic Selflessness
Fall out of your role
All hooked up
Check out your colors
In your feeding frenzy soul
All corrupt
Drifting out of focus
In and out of control
No response
Check from heaven
Now feeding the hole
Copy Imitate Mechanical
No heart Fall in Don't stand out
Machinery Sell-out
 
I'm permabanning the next user who posts all the lyrics to a song.

Obviously I cannot.
_____

How do we know if Lucifer is moral or immoral?
 
"Is That All There Is?"
(originally by Dan Daniels)

I remember when I was a very little girl, our house caught on fire.
I'll never forget the look on my father's face as he gathered me up
In his arms and raced through the burning building out to the pavement.
I stood there shivering in my pajamas and watched the whole world go up in flames.
And when it was all over I said to myself,
"Is that all there is to a fire?"

Is that all there is?
Is that all there is?
If that's all there is my friends
Then let's keep dancing
Let's break out the booze and have a ball
If that's all there is

And when I was 12 years old, my daddy took me to a circus.
"The Greatest Show On Earth."
There were clowns and elephants and dancing bears.
And a beautiful lady in pink tights flew high above our heads.
And as I sat there watching, I had the feeling that something was missing.
I don't know what, but when it was over,
I said to myself,
"Is that all there is to a circus?"

Is that all there is?
Is that all there is?
If that's all there is my friends
Then let's keep dancing
Let's break out the booze and have a ball
If that's all there is

And then I fell in love, with the most wonderful boy in the world.
We would take long walks by the river
Or just sit for hours gazing into each other's eyes.
We were so very much in love.
Then one day, he went away and I thought I'd die.
But I didn't.
And when I didn't I said to myself,
"Is that all there is to love?"

Is that all there is?
Is that all there is?
If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep-

I know what you must be saying to yourselves.
"If that's the way she feels about it why doesn't she just end it all?"
Oh, no, not me.
I'm in no hurry for that final disappointment.
'Cause I know just as well as I'm standing here talking to you,
That when that final moment comes and I'm breathing my last breath
I'll be saying to myself-

Is that all there is?
Is that all there is?
If that's all there is my friends
Then let's keep dancing
Let's break out the booze and have a ball
If that's all there is
 
Lucifer as the tempter.


[video]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/jJmUU27pNoE/hqdefault.jpg?custom=true&w=336&h=188&stc=true&jpg444=true&jpgq=90&sp=68&sigh=mt6HS09T8htkW5bjXL0aCWwBD3I[/video]
 
Nixiam said:
How do we know if Lucifer is moral or immoral?
Click to expand...

We don't. "Lucifer" is really the animal level of instinct/consciousness that resides in all of us and all things. So, it isn't really moral or immoral per say, just unpredictable and fairly self serving by nature. Sometimes, depending on the circumstances it could appear to be "moral" as it is helping others. However, other times it could be very dangerous and harmful and thus appear to be immoral. There really isn't any predictable quality of it, as Lucifer doesn't really even have a concept of "right" or "wrong" or "moral" or "immoral".
 
That's a good description. You can observe it in a cat. Sometimes it gets that devious look and likes to scratch. And while it rests in the spirit it looks more pure and innocent, like a baby.
 
What's the point in calling animal instincts Lucifer and not just animal instincts? It doesn't really clarify anything.
 
How could animal instincts be anything but the creative force at work? People always compare our species to "animals" as if they were somehow barbaric. However when you look at it rationally it's humans that act with real deliberate barberism. Other animals are innocents compared to humans.
 
Well, Swilow, disregard the notion that lucifer doesn't exist.

This thread isn't for people who dispute. That's how we'll keep the peace from now on.

If we trampled over every spirituality thread, users may feel discouraged to post, y'know?

Even though it's fun to demolish ideas with logic and the likes, tolerance is best to have when ideas like these don't really hurt anyone.

Love you m8/surrogate Papa
 
The next step then would be to decide and agree on what the attributes and motives of a Satan would be. Most people have differing ideas of what Satan is. For instance I'd be inclined to think of Satan as the misunderstood good guy in this passion play.
 
Nixiam said:
Well, Swilow, disregard the notion that lucifer doesn't exist.

This thread isn't for people who dispute. That's how we'll keep the peace from now on.

If we trampled over every spirituality thread, users may feel discouraged to post, y'know?

Even though it's fun to demolish ideas with logic and the likes, tolerance is best to have when ideas like these don't really hurt anyone.

Love you m8/surrogate Papa
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to demolish with logic, I'm just wondering how personifying a part of our biology clears anything up. I'm really not trying to be intolerant or whatever.

We don't need to be concerned with keeping peace. This a forum to share ideas and it runs pretty smoothly.

Anyway.
 
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