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Lucifer

I like your theories.. I figure that if some people take offense to your post it's because some people (not all - "some") must pigeonhole Good and Evil, or have no wriggle room in their faith to allow feelings of any other than Lucifer was Evil. So to me, understandably, anyone who sees Lucifer as Evil - and they, as somebody fighting the good fight - is gonna take some form of offense to your post..

Having said that, what I have learned in life, Good and Evil reside everywhere - and polar opposites know-no borders..

A person may get offended (for example) by the mere mention of Lucifer, but completely forgive any transgressors who-say-??-Tortured and burned hundreds of thousands of innocents in the names of their own God.. So, As I see it? Evil is Evil.. Good is Good.. And it's not much more complicated than that.

We start putting names to things though, then you start saying all those things "This" or "That" are either "Good" or "Evil". And you would ALWAYS be wrong, as it's NEVER that way..

Same with Entities and People.. Lucifer for example.. A fallen Angel.. .. .. ..A friend of mine, a LOOONG Time ago... A Good Catholic Boy, A Nice Guy, stated that in his enlightened point of view, Lucifer couldn't be evil as we know it.. Because as an Angel.. He was inherently good to begin with, so ??? How could he be something he isn't?

Then.. I Spoke to a Pastor one time who made the mistake of knocking on my door for purpose of converting me (I guess). He was under the impression that Heaven is a Democracy.. My response? You should take that up with Lucifer, see what he says about that :)

Religion is always going to be a Hot-Button Topic.. I'm a believer. I read up on lots of religions, read my bible, went to lots of different types of churches, and found that they all got in the way of God as I believed God to be.. For me.. The Messenger invariably twisted the written words - I lost faith through the selfish use of God by others.. So I have my own relationship with God now..

But.. Y'know.. ;) ..Whatever you believe.. All the Best to you.
 
Yes. I once read a Christian who said he had always found it completely incredible that the highest of God's angels would not only rebel against him, but even challenge him for his throne. It doesn't make much sense when you see it like that.
 
^According to the Yazidi religion, Melek Taus, the first angel, was told to bow only to God. After him God created the other angels. Then he created man, and told the angels to bow before man. Melek Taus refused.

To the Yazidis, Melek Taus is considered the highest angel still, and is revered. The Yazidi are considered 'devil worshippers' by Muslims in the places they inhabit. The ISIS is committing genocidal acts against them, giving them the choice to convert or die. Their name for Melek Taus is also "Shay-tun", which is the same as the Islamic name for Satan/Iblis.

Yazidi believe there are 7 Angels that God entrusted care of the Earth to, chiefly among them Melek Taus.

God's asking the angels to bow to man was a test, to Melek Taus, and he unlike Christian and Islamic traditional views, was forgiven. He upheld Gods first command.

"Yazidi accounts of creation differ from that of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. They believe that God first created Tawûsê Melek from his own (God's) illumination (Ronahî) and the other six archangels were created later. God ordered Tawûsê Melek not to bow to other beings. Then God created the other archangels and ordered them to bring him dust (Ax) from the Earth (Erd) and build the body of Adam. Then God gave life to Adam from his own breath and instructed all archangels to bow to Adam. The archangels obeyed except for Tawûsê Melek. In answer to God, Tawûsê Melek replied, "How can I submit to another being! I am from your illumination while Adam is made of dust." Then God praised him and made him the leader of all angels and his deputy on the Earth. (This probably furthers what some see as a connection to the Islamic Shaytan, as according to the Quran, he too refused to bow to Adam at God's command, though in this case it is seen as being a sign of Shaytan's sinful pride.) Hence the Yazidis believe that Tawûsê Melek is the representative of God on the face of the Earth and comes down to the Earth on the first Wednesday of Nisan (April). Yazidis hold that God created Tawûsê Melek on this day, and celebrate it as New Year's Day. Yazidis argue that the order to bow to Adam was only a test for Tawûsê Melek, since if God commands anything then it must happen. (Bibe, dibe). In other words, God could have made him submit to Adam, but gave Tawûsê Melek the choice as a test. They believe that their respect and praise for Tawûsê Melek is a way to acknowledge his majestic and sublime nature. This idea is called "Knowledge of the Sublime" (Zanista Ciwaniyê). Şêx Adî has observed the story of Tawûsê Melek and believed in him.[55]

One of the key creation beliefs held by Yazidis is that they are the descendants of Adam through his son Shehid bin Jer rather than Eve.[53] Yazidis believe that good and evil both exist in the mind and spirit of human beings. It depends on the humans, themselves, as to which they choose. In this process, their devotion to Tawûsê Melek is essential, since it was he who was given the same choice between good and evil by God, and chose the good.[citation needed]"

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidis
 
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Jinkxy said:
Lucifer couldn't be evil as we know it.. Because as an Angel.. He was inherently good to begin with, so ??? How could he be something he isn't?
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It's as simple as free will.

Ninae said:
I just know I can call on Lucifer like I can call on Jesus but they feel a bit different.
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You're treading in dangerous waters.

"No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other." Matt 6:24

Lucifer is the spirit of anti-Christ.

Ninae said:
Jesus feels more human and is closer to the physical plane. It's like he's always there for you and can be reached quite easily. But if you manage to connect with Lucifer in your heart, the feeling is of something so holy and divine, it gives you shivers down your spine.

Like he's higher "up" in some way.
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Other way around. lucifer/satan is the god of this world, he is closer to the physical plane and can be reached more easily. Evil and sin are far more easy to commit than godliness and righteousness.

"The god of this world (satan) has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." 2 Corinth 4:4

"Even satan disguises himself as an angel of light." 2 Corinth 11:14

This passage speaks of false prophets, but I believe it could even be used here:

"Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep, but inwardly they are vicious wolves." Matt 7:15

He appears as the good, beautiful angel he once was, but by his pride and desire to be higher than God he is evil, he seeks to kill, steal, and destroy. He will tear anyone up and do whatever it takes to have people following him instead by keeping people from Christ.
 
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I believe he worked as a kind of "double-agent" to dispel the darkness from within, in service of God and humanity, like he explains.

Even if this would be too completely unacceptable for a conservative Christian to even consider. If you listen the whole story it just rings too true to me. Apparantly, even Archangel Michael has had some dark incarnarions, even if he's mostly had the opposite role - or staying in the light close to God. So he has become a shining legend while Lucifer an atrocious myth.

Angels sacrifice themselves and do whatever God asks of them, that's what they do. They don't really have free will like humans do, or their will is more of an extention of God's will. So if he decided "I need to send in my elite corps", they will go.

By the way, I believe all human, angels, and devic souls incarnated into bodies at this crucial time are "elite souls", or the most ancient souls. The strongest of the strong.

Apart from a few exceptions, but most just haven't woken up yet.
 
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Tromps, how do you reconcile both Jesus and Lucifer being referred to as the morning star?
 
I think they collaborated with trying to save this world, just in very different ways.
Jesus was here to be a shining example of divine consciousness and show us how we should be.
Lucifer got the idea to infiltrate the darkness on Earth, so God would have one representative there and be more able to act within it.

Both made great sacrifices out of love for humanity and this Earth.
 
Well, here is a new channeling from Lucifer.

http://throughkathrynwithlove.wordpress.com/2014/10/08/lucifer-unconditional-love/

Sounds like something he would say. Although I didn't really appreciate that optimistic breakdown on the beauty of human relationship, though I suppose it's true enough.

The ending was nice, when he lost control of his joy/love in a way that is typical for angels, and started to express it manically in a poetic way. "Send out your Unconditional Love vibes to the sparrow in the tree, the bee on a flower, and the dinner on your table." That's more my kind of thing.

And this one from Archangel Raphael is particularly interesting:

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2014/07/archangel-raphael-says-the-lucifer-project-is-over-and-reptilians-are-gone-2997932.html

"Many seers and spiritual leaders have told you “It is all an illusion.” This is not true. Only the internal rules of the game are the illusory creation. By “game” I do not mean to imply it is a whimsical process. Not at all. The moves you make, the decisions you choose, and the lessons you learn as a result of playing the Game of Life on Planet Earth in the 3rd and 4th dimension are true. Your growth and your struggle to come back to the Light are real. This is a challenge you will remember for the rest of your soul eternity."
 
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Lucifer (as the archangel, not the head of evil) is prolific these days. He's certainly very opiniated and has something to say about everything. Reminds me of someone I know.

http://lightworkers.org/channeling/206327/lucifer-and-company-heaven-amen

So St. Germain's Prosperity fund is going to be released and distributed into our all's bank account? I've been hearing about this for one and a half year now but have to say it's one of those things that go into my "I believe it when I see it" category.

For some background information, "St. Germain is an old ascended master and his name is taken from one of his famous lifetimes here on Earth, where he lived for 140 years without aging and was a very popular guest among the European nobility at the time. He had access to seemingly unlimited wealth and was a master alchemist who could transform metals and perfect precious stones to increase their value.

This was in the 1800s, I believe, and the given wisdom is that he, with his immense fortune, started a fund on the behalf of humanity. That this was his main job in that lifetime, and that the fund has now grown and grown so it exceeds all known wealth on Earth. And now the time has come to distribute it evenly among Earth's inhabitants to give us back the money that has been stolen from us in various ways though the ages.

Would be nice if it didn't sound so much life a fairytale, but I guess we'll see.
 
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Maybe I can channel a message from Lucifer for Christmas...sometimes I can make the connection.

First he would like to say he loves and honours us all. Then that he appreciates any effort to clear his name, not because he has such a big ego, but because it has gone past all limits and devalued all that he stands for. And he'd be grateful for any ideas circulating that he's not representative of what his name has been lent to.

That's pretty much the gist of it, from what I can gather.
 
Tromps said:
It's as simple as free will.



You're treading in dangerous waters.

"No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other." Matt 6:24

Lucifer is the spirit of anti-Christ.



Other way around. lucifer/satan is the god of this world, he is closer to the physical plane and can be reached more easily. Evil and sin are far more easy to commit than godliness and righteousness.

"The god of this world (satan) has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." 2 Corinth 4:4

"Even satan disguises himself as an angel of light." 2 Corinth 11:14

This passage speaks of false prophets, but I believe it could even be used here:

"Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep, but inwardly they are vicious wolves." Matt 7:15

He appears as the good, beautiful angel he once was, but by his pride and desire to be higher than God he is evil, he seeks to kill, steal, and destroy. He will tear anyone up and do whatever it takes to have people following him instead by keeping people from Christ.
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Strange
 
I don't think that way now, I think it's just part of the "Sympathy for the devil" programming out there.
 
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Ninae, you are right in some ways, yet it is clear there are things you do not understand about Lucifer. Yes, Lucifer and God are both present in everyone and everything. Our reality is comprised of both, in all people and all things. God is a higher energy that guides the world, and this energy can be tapped into. When you do, this energy will help you in all facets of your life and it will benefit other people, essentially helping to enlighten the world as a whole. I recently had an experience with this energy that was truly profound, and I feel that I need to become more in touch with it again. God is not a he, God is a force and an energy that is present in all living creatures. In a sense, God is the essence of consciousness itself. In a sense, one can think of the entire world as a sort of organism. All people are essentially like cells in the organism. God is the electricity in the nerves and the cells, providing it with life. When one person (one of the cells of the organism of the universe) wakes up to this energy, it spreads to the others, helping the universe as a whole to wake up to it and become more powered by this energy, raising the frequency of the whole universe.

Lucifer is different. In a sense, one could say that Lucifer is kind of the "lower energy" of the universe. Basically, Lucifer manifests itself in the most animalistic circuits of mankind. Lucifer is what guides predatory instincts in the animal world and what governs many of these very base level interactions. Lucifer is wild and animal like, unpredictable and selfish, yet it can have the feel of "enlightenment" as it has a strong emotional, primal quality to it that could potentially feel alluring and profound. However, it ultimately has the power to destroy not just oneself but others, in search of hedonistic and/or self oriented gain. If you become stronger in touch with this energy, you will ultimately end up finding yourself quick to anger, hedonistic, and self destructive not enlightened. Do not channel Lucifer, as this energy has the power to possess a person and become all consuming, especially if "channeled". Whether or not one could become "possessed" in the sense of having one's eyes turn red and all, I don't know. I'm highly skeptical but can't disprove it. However, one could certainly become possessed in the sense of becoming a selfish, harmful, and volatile person.
 
its not that black and white LU.

Lucifer has his own forms of enlightenment, such as ascension, which is what this 'rising' talk is about in music and such. he disguises himself as a being of light, and his name means 'bearer of light'. most talk about light, light workers, universal consciousness, etc deals with luciferian stuff. some of it is seducing and deceiving, after all, he is known as the deceiver. there are indeed higher forms of consciousness that are luciferian.

he was never an angel either, his minions are fallen angels but he was something different only second to God. as far as channeling angels, angels don't talk to people, so its not angels you are channeling.
 
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Propagandhi - "Note To Self"

No-fly list. No-drive list. No-walk list. No-talk list.
No muckraking journalist left to take stock of
the wholesale omission of outside perspectives.
How does it make you feel to know that you voted for this?

Fuck this!

So much for your hopes and your dreams and your children.
You just sat there believing in this bullshit system.
Just wishing the mob would magically come to its senses.
How does it make you feel to know you just stood by and watched it?

Dazed. Numb. Powerless. Stunned.
While we frantically click our heels, already home.

The bands. The sports. The booze.
It's all that's left of you.
When the cops and the courts refuse
To confess the sins of the few,
What is there left to do?
The answer's there right before your eyes!

Rise!
-------------------------------------------------------------------

This band is notoriously atheist (re:listen to Hailie Salassie, Up Your Ass, although that was on their first album when they had the right ideas but were still an immature punk band, they're still punk but definitely are not anything like that first release of theirs). Anyway, how could people like this (I include myself pretty much in there), say that the most important thing to do (that songs is from 2012) is to Rise. They mean, all the oppressed have to rise as one or otherwise, well, it's said eloquently and musically there.
 
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LandsUnknown said:
Ninae, you are right in some ways, yet it is clear there are things you do not understand about Lucifer. Yes, Lucifer and God are both present in everyone and everything. Our reality is comprised of both, in all people and all things. God is a higher energy that guides the world, and this energy can be tapped into. When you do, this energy will help you in all facets of your life and it will benefit other people, essentially helping to enlighten the world as a whole. I recently had an experience with this energy that was truly profound, and I feel that I need to become more in touch with it again. God is not a he, God is a force and an energy that is present in all living creatures. In a sense, God is the essence of consciousness itself. In a sense, one can think of the entire world as a sort of organism. All people are essentially like cells in the organism. God is the electricity in the nerves and the cells, providing it with life. When one person (one of the cells of the organism of the universe) wakes up to this energy, it spreads to the others, helping the universe as a whole to wake up to it and become more powered by this energy, raising the frequency of the whole universe.

Lucifer is different. In a sense, one could say that Lucifer is kind of the "lower energy" of the universe. Basically, Lucifer manifests itself in the most animalistic circuits of mankind. Lucifer is what guides predatory instincts in the animal world and what governs many of these very base level interactions. Lucifer is wild and animal like, unpredictable and selfish, yet it can have the feel of "enlightenment" as it has a strong emotional, primal quality to it that could potentially feel alluring and profound. However, it ultimately has the power to destroy not just oneself but others, in search of hedonistic and/or self oriented gain. If you become stronger in touch with this energy, you will ultimately end up finding yourself quick to anger, hedonistic, and self destructive not enlightened. Do not channel Lucifer, as this energy has the power to possess a person and become all consuming, especially if "channeled". Whether or not one could become "possessed" in the sense of having one's eyes turn red and all, I don't know. I'm highly skeptical but can't disprove it. However, one could certainly become possessed in the sense of becoming a selfish, harmful, and volatile person.
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Absolutely brilliant and totally agree.

One of the best descriptions of God I've ever read. And to think most never even get close to it because they can't see past their limited idea of what God is. And they don't want to, either, they like it that way.
 
I've seen people losing it in anger (my dad), and my brother told me I do the same, when I make very calm angry threats, my eyes get totally black. My dad's would do this. My dad is a good guy, just another guy who had a high paying job that was cut by the company he worked for, and it was randomly chosen in the company way back in the early 90's when the west started to sell all its manufacturing knowledge to Japan and then China. But my grandfather, the one nobody cried for when he died at the funeral, I rather think my grandmother's boyfriend since like 50 years is my grandfather instead, although I was thought to call Uncle Edmond. Nobody ever told me about Valmore (that british name he had was already creepy to start with in french canada, sounds literally like valley of death until later, my dad never had him come to our house, he was only allowed outside the one of a few times I saw him. The man had been rendered totally manically violent with my dad and my uncles/aunts on my dad's side, untreated WWII PTSD I guess (canadian pilot, bragged of napalm bombing "germs" children) one of the 5 times or so I saw him alive.

But we got this warrior gene or something that you guys could explain better than me, than when applied towards creative energy all makes us better, for example, all male grandchildren he had are virtuosos of electric guitar or bass guitar except for me, I was going to get there, but I sold my extreme quality guitar and amp so I could buy an ounce of coke that one time...Even as inside of me there was this voice saying don't do this don't do this, the same damn voice when you steal quarters from your mom's purse to play the arcade game at the corner store, that voice psychopaths lack, so no, I'm not a psychopath, on the contrary, I feel more for the problems of those I care about than my own.
 
Ninae said:
Absolutely brilliant and totally agree.

One of the best descriptions of God I've ever read. And to think most never even get close to it because they can't see past their limited idea of what God is. And they don't want to, either, they like it that way.
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Nothing against your philosophy on this, but why is that you are interested in being involved with the lower energies of Lucifer, when you have already experienced God? It seems that once one has experienced this energy, they would no longer have any interest in anything related to Lucifer and/or other lower energies. At least, that has been my experience.
 
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