[LSD Subthread] The Clean vs. Dirty Acid Debate (Part 2 - Archived)

[naginnudej]

I'm cringing just reading this thread.

Dirty acid is a half truth. You can have DOx adulturated paper or damaged LSD, but not 'dirty' acid. How can I come to this conclusion?

In my experience with LSD, I have noticed this: when I purchase L, I purchase large quantities. As such, I can do various amounts at differing times and compare the results. In August of this year SWIM had 50 tabs of mediocre LSD.

Note: Doses remained constant throughout.

First trial: light visuals, extensive mental stimulation. Great time.

Second trial (2 weeks later): Nice visuals, plenty of mental stimulation. Blast.

Third trial (3 weeks after second trial): No visuals, irregular heartbeat, sweating, little energy, and uncomfortable body load. Experienced by both myself and accompanying friend.

Fourth Trial (1 week after third trial): Similar to second trial.

Please note that during the third trial I would have assumed it was 'dirty' acid had I not already experienced the LSD twice before. In no way was this like any LSD experience I have ever had. It was difficult to open my eyes, I did not want to leave the chair I was sitting in, etc...

I'm aware that this is only anecdotal evidence, but everyone must remember that set/setting is just as important as the potency of the LSD you are ingesting. I would be more inclined to blame the user than the LSD in most cases of weird/bad trips.

 

[Roger&Me]

Old/degraded LSD is definitely far different subjectively than fresh acid. It tends to give you bad bodyload (tension, gas, tummy ache, etc.) I find that really fresh acid gives me pretty much zero bodyload, and in fact it makes my body feel lighter and better than it does normally. Honestly, degraded LSD is nowhere near the same kind of experience as truly fresh doses.

Additionally, Uncle Fester in his book "Practical LSD Manufacture" notes that LSD made from ergotamine extracted from certain sources that have high clavine contents can dramatically alter the subjective effects of the final product due to clavine contamination.

Essentially, I'm a firm believer that LSD manufactured diligently and consumed within a short period of time after being made is truly a magical experience and is worlds apart subjectively than LSD produced sloppily and allowed to degrade.

 

[college_dropout]

Wow, this thread takes me back. I still think about that trip and how strange the visuals seemed that time. I can't figure it out. Was definitely LSD tho.

 

[killo]

Wow, this thread takes me back. I still think about that trip and how strange the visuals seemed that time. I can't figure it out. Was definitely LSD tho.

Don't assume it was LSD = P

 

[killo]

Old/degraded LSD is definitely far different subjectively than fresh acid. It tends to give you bad bodyload (tension, gas, tummy ache, etc.) I find that really fresh acid gives me pretty much zero bodyload, and in fact it makes my body feel lighter and better than it does normally. Honestly, degraded LSD is nowhere near the same kind of experience as truly fresh doses.

Additionally, Uncle Fester in his book "Practical LSD Manufacture" notes that LSD made from ergotamine extracted from certain sources that have high clavine contents can dramatically alter the subjective effects of the final product due to clavine contamination.

Essentially, I'm a firm believer that LSD manufactured diligently and consumed within a short period of time after being made is truly a magical experience and is worlds apart subjectively than LSD produced sloppily and allowed to degrade.

I don't know man. As far as I know and even scientifically, just because LSD degrades(in potency) doesn't mean it is going to be "dirtier chemically"

Now here's my conclusion. If you take LSD after it "degrades" then you may perceive it to be "dirtier" than before because it's weaker. It's known that threshold to lower doses of LSD tend to cause more side effects or rather it may be because subjectively you're not "Fully indulged" in the experience so you notice them more. I've taken a low dose before and while I did enjoy it, I definitely noticed stimulation and visuals that weren't as strong.

In other words I believe it's completely subjective, I don't believe that if you actually have "REAL LSD"(not DOx) that it will chemically be altered in anyway due to it being left out in the sun or weaker.

It's just gotten weaker, it's the same chemical but. It's going to change the subjective nature because it's a weaker dose.

LSD is one of those psychedelics where sticking your foot in the water(low-threshold dose) when you want a full-on experience(medium-high dose) can be unpleasant.

If you are expecting a trip and all you get is a milder form because of weak hits then that may cause the dirty feeling because you didn't jump in.

I'm half asleep, hope I made sense.

 

[dread]

I don't believe that if you actually have "REAL LSD"(not DOx) that it will chemically be altered in anyway due to it being left out in the sun or weaker.

Well LSD gets chemically altered whether you believe it or not. That's what degradation is, the LSD molecules don't just mysteriously disappear somewhere, they degrade = decompose = get chemically altered into another compound. The most common degradation products are iso-LSD and lumi-LSD. One is an isomer and the other is a tautomer.

 

[Roger&Me]

It's just gotten weaker, it's the same chemical but. It's going to change the subjective nature because it's a weaker dose.

When LSD is degraded by heat or light it forms a mixture of LSD, iso-LSD and lumi-LSD. Iso- and lumi-LSD are "inactive" in terms of psychedelia, but I'm quite sure that they add to the bodyload probably due to adrenergic activity (although thats pure speculation on my part). I've eaten my way through many, many batches of acid and in my experience when a vial is fresh its a completely different type of experience than when a vial is old. There's just no comparing the two-- fresh acid is light, cosmic, beautiful; old acid is metallic, edgy, and dark.

 

[SWIMdidit]

I second the notion the there can be qualitative differences between acid batches, even if you are 'tripping' the same amount...Old stuff, taken at an equivalent dosage, doesn't feel as clear and purely psychedelic as fresher stuff.

 

[swilow]

oh yes, and i do have me asbestos suit on. intention and vibrational charging contribute to / effect, IMNSHO ~50% of the subjective experience. DMT is a prime example of this, LSD is trickier so we hope the karmic filters from the CCCC prevent the majority of the weaselrati from getting through a bad synth. the charged acid....i wont go there

Asbestos suits are a must for any LSD imbiber, I would have to say.

 

[killo]

When LSD is degraded by heat or light it forms a mixture of LSD, iso-LSD and lumi-LSD. Iso- and lumi-LSD are "inactive" in terms of psychedelia, but I'm quite sure that they add to the bodyload probably due to adrenergic activity (although thats pure speculation on my part). I've eaten my way through many, many batches of acid and in my experience when a vial is fresh its a completely different type of experience than when a vial is old. There's just no comparing the two-- fresh acid is light, cosmic, beautiful; old acid is metallic, edgy, and dark.

You may be right cause there can be other iso's, who knows....

I suppose I've never come across this so-called "Dirty acid" or perhaps the time I took it I enjoyed the LSD so much that I didn't really notice the "side effects" of degraded chemical. One time I tripped balls on some L with a buddy and he complained about bad pain and layed down during the trip but I didn't notice it. I was too busy feeling groovy while looking at objects morph and assume unusual dimensions =-)

During my experiences with liquid, blotters and geltabs the only time I've felt dirty and didn't enjoy the trip for what it was, was when I ate some DOx unintentionally. There was no question about it, I knew it wasn't LSD.

 

[the_ketaman]

To me, dirty acid is just acid that makes you feel all speedy, has quite a bodyload, is often weaker and doesnt feel like normal LSD. Ive only ever had dirty acid once though and I still enjoyed it immensely. I believe the "dirtyness" of the acid is caused by degradation of the 'cid either from sunlight, heat or not being stored properly, the acid turns into something else, cant remember the name, its still acid, just not as good quality.

 

[youngnealcassady]

Since the formula/recipes are not all the same, nor are the pre-cursors for making lsd-25, the finished product, even in exact same microgram doses, is never the same. The challenges in getting these pre-cursors, and cost, can lead people to substitute or alter the recipe

 

[rave_itsrealfun!!!]

I think the real danger is in getting something different, not minor differences in synthesis or degradation of the product. It is debatable if that even has an effect on the experience of such a tiny amount of chemical, although I would think that a small body load might be produced. Who knows?
There is definately dangerous shit going around as acid though. I had some plain cardboard and never should have taken it cause I knew it was an RC - people who make acid do it right and don't just throw it on thick cardboard things after going to all that work. I took one and it felt like coke for 4 hours before I crashed HARD and had to go on a 4 day bender in order to keep anxiety/chest tightness under control. Furious at the dude who told me it was clean - fuck knows how he came to that conclusion. I also got the tiniest little thin blotters with professional looking print and one of them would send me to oblivion haha... so I am very aware that I react just fine to LSD, and yes the experience itself entales heightened blood pressure, elevated heart rate, deep cleansing breathing.

 

[Ismene]

I had nice visuals but it seemed like on the lining on the colourful visual patterns there seemed to be other really dirty colours, like dark murky brown/grey which gave the visuals an ugly tinge to them. When I looked up at the clouds, rather than having a nice silver lining they just looked incredibly dirty and yuck. I found this quite strange because usually acid brings out the beauty in all things natural.

Nah, that's just your mind. Nothing to do with "dirty acid"

just like all drugs.....saying lsd is lsd, is like saying meth is meth and herion is herion.
wrong....!

Whoa, back up a minute. The big difference is you can put a handful of talcum powder into a bag of heroin. You can't do that with LSD. LSD fits on a blotter - once it's on the blotter it's very hard, if not impossible, to make it "impure".

 

[B9]

There is always the potential for blotters to be laid with a substituted amide which may happen for various reasons giving LS? which would perhaps give similar but different effects to genuine LSD. How likely this is i do not know but from reading I did some years ago it wasn't that uncommon a practice, the reasons for this were speculated to be that the substitute amides were less watched therefore easier to obtain or maybe just eased the producers sense of unease when procuring the chemicals.

 

[freedstar]

It seems the obvious answer to the subjective "feel" of clean or dirty acid is simply a matter of ingesting different drugs. It's been confirmed that there ARE other lysergamide derivatives circulating on blotter. Do you really expect whoever is selling you acid to know whether it is LSD or LSP? Information like that would have to come from the very source and I have a hard time believing they would bother selling product as anything other than pure LSD.

Hell whatever chemists are involved in this would probably even feel passing off these drugs as LSD to be "ethically" ok because they are so similar. They have reasons for looking in different directions.

 

[LogicSoDeveloped]

I definitely believe in this as I've had speedy, anxious acid. A couple months ago, I took some and while it was visual and mentally I was tripping nicely, I could hear my heart beating in my head. I also had a light tightness in my chest and had trouble sleeping. The duration wasn't unnaturally long (8-10 hours) so I knew it wasn't DOx. It definitely felt like acid, it just felt like it had a layer of anxious stimulation I didn't quite care for. I didn't have a strongly noticeable body load, at least, no more noticeable than acid that didn't feel speedy.

 

[freedstar]

I definitely believe in this as I've had speedy, anxious acid. A couple months ago, I took some and while it was visual and mentally I was tripping nicely, I could hear my heart beating in my head. I also had a light tightness in my chest and had trouble sleeping. The duration wasn't unnaturally long (8-10 hours) so I knew it wasn't DOx. It definitely felt like acid, it just felt like it had a layer of anxious stimulation I didn't quite care for. I didn't have a strongly noticeable body load, at least, no more noticeable than acid that didn't feel speedy.

That just seems like your mindset slightly affecting the trip. Everyone will agree LSD causes at least some sort of speedy stimulation and possible anxiety. But I wouldn't be too surprised if "dirty" feeling blotter is out there.

Could some people with in depth experimentation with several batches with different effects share your experiences? It seems obvious the blotter coming in from Europe that is reportedly shorter lasting and less anxiogenicis is not LSD but some other LSX. So why should all of this seem so shocking?

 

[D n A]

Tripped on acid the other day. Took one mayan calendar, it took a while to hit, something like 2 hours. The tab did taste a little bitter.. as I had the hit on my tongue I started to worry to my friend, wondering if it was maybe DOxx, but he reassured me that our friend would not give us that shit.. well, you never know, but anyways..
I had a very strong body load on the comeup and felt like I'd be having an amazing trip soon, but instead, I got these rather minor visuals (in comparison to previous acid trips) that were sort of colorful, but rather dark and inky looking. I had a really strange high feeling going on through my body and mind, the feeling is hard to explain, but it didn't really feel like the kind of high I'd get from acid. It was strange. But I had an alright time, I suppose.. not really a "bad trip" in my mind.
Anyways, these effects lasted about 9 hours continuously without changing. Around this time, i smoked a bowl and took some melatonin and tried to go to sleep. However, I felt like I was on amphetamines. My heart was racing, my eyes became enormous, and I absolutely and completely could not sleep. It was awful, and I felt like total shit. I tried to make myself eat, as usually this slows my heart rate down (when I am hungry, my heart races). I drank tons of water and was constantly peeing - I thought that the water might help wash out all these disgusting chemicals from my body. Even after eating, I still could not sleep, so I smoked a few more bowls but instead of feeling tired or whatever I just felt.. strange. It's hard to explain.. but yeah.. no sleep until like 4pm the next day (I had taken it at 9pm the previous night).
The visuals began to dwindle down around 16 or so hours after ingestion, and once the horrible feeling left my head I was able to take a toke of some weed and actually feel the effects of it that I'd normally get, and I passed right out and fell asleep for hours.

I don't know if this was acid or what, but my previous trip with liquid lucy was very similar with the 'dirty visuals' (except I didn't feel as speedy that time). I was thinking that perhaps my fairly acidic/salty diet may be interfering with LSD and RC's, as my previous 5 trips on 2ce, 2ci and LSD have all had these inky looking visuals, with minor color and a strange high. But none were like the last.. bitter tab, and a speedy feeling..

So perhaps the last trip may have been DOxx. I'm going to look into the other trips later.. but maybe there is something going around

 

[DwayneHoover]

It could all be suggestibility, or individual neurological reaction patterns, or what you ate yesterday, or it could be slight amounts of ancillary things that on their own may not do much but in the presence of LSD serve to modulate IT by some chemical synergy, in the manner of a catalyst, anything is possible really in these areas. Anyone who says they know for sure is bullshitting you trying to prove they are smarter than everyone else. There is absolutely no way to know without a double blinded formal properly controlled scientific medical experiment to know what exactly might cause what changes if any. All other claims are just speculation.

But opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one... so this perennial kerfuffle with keep going round and round forever.