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[LSD Subthread] The Clean vs. Dirty Acid Debate (Part 2 - Archived)

psilocybonaut said:
Unreacted ergotamine is NOT active at the microgram level. Maybe as a mild migraine reliever, MAYBE, if you took 1mg. Enough said.

You really don't think that the purity of a chemical affects the experience?

Not with LSD, as it has been pretty much proven.
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"Proven"???

Please provide reference to published peer reviewed scientific research.

All this grandstanding by the "all LSD-product is totally pure and completely identical" and "synergistic catalytic interactions are impossible" and "for an impurity to have an effect it must be at a level that it would be active by itself" crowd is just a bunch of "I'm smarter than you are" boasting by techie-nerds who want to boost their own egos. Your positions are build on a pile of presumptions and assumptions and logic-only reasoning, from which you make these absolutist pronouncements, when, in fact, you have NO evidence and such statements are just your own personal opinions and conclusions which you are proclaiming loudly as fact.
 
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Ismene said:
LSD has a vast range of effects all by itself
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You continually overplay this "vast range of effects." To listen to you tell it, do a hit of LSD and it can cause virtually any and every possible drug effect known to man though out all history. As if it is the ultimate chameleon of drugs. Total BS, IMO. Drugs have a pretty definable set of effects and "feels" and LSD is no different. It's not the magical ultra-mimic that you like to proclaim. That's just absurd. In fact I would say you are romanticizing it for this property as much as you criticize others for romanticizing "clean" acid. Why this crusade?
 
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freedstar said:
16 hours of visuals sounds like a long time so maybe a DoX, although I don't have experience with them. When do you think your visuals from acid usually wear off? Some legit blotter DOES taste bitter so its totally possible it could of been your mindset trying to figure out whether what you ingested was acid or some other drug.
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Most of my other trips on LSD lasted around 10-15 hours. Although, on the one that lasted 15, I did take several more hits about 2 hours after the first ingestion.
 
^ Seems like too long of a duration to be LSD. My personal experiences with LSD have been between 8 and 10 hours or so. 15 is definitely a bit long as with LSD, tolerance increase is rapid and even though you redosed 2 hours after the effect, it seems as though you may have taken a DOx.
 
I'm sure that specific trip was pure LSD. They were hunab ku blotters (I know, you can't necessarily tell what's in something by looks..) and I was tripping with an experienced person, she would know if it was DOx. It was a pure, clean, feeling, and absolutely stunning visuals. Body high was very tolerable. And I felt absolutely amazing the whole time.

It's not unheard of for people to trip for 10-15 hours on LSD. Everyone is different. Though, the main part of my trip was the first ten hours, and the other five was just the last dregs of the LSD, but I still had visual disturbances that were noticeable.
 
DwayneHoover said:
You continually overplay this "vast range of effects."
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You don't think LSD has a vast range of effects Dwayne?

As Aldous said psychedelics can be heaven or hell - that's quite a range in effects isn't it? Can you get a bigger range of effects than a drug taking you to heaven or to hell?
 
the first time i tripped on what i though was real acid was some dancing condom blotters - and well i thought my calf started cramping up cuz i was cold. :( it was cramping up bad at the end of the concert however i had to hold my leg walking it was pretty trippy.. never heard anyone explaing "dirty acid" could have been the cause of it however the stuff i ate came from probly not the cleanest people and it was from the USA as well so ya I dunno.. did anyone else have the dancing condoms in '03?
 
Well, well.

skillet posted in http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...-depression.?p=9919536&viewfull=1#post9919536

Yeah there's some controversy about 2-Br-LSD being non-hallucinogenic:

a case study describing how a 28-year-old worker in the laboratory of Harold G. Wolff took BOL-148 0.5 mg for a ‘‘pounding’’ vascular headache. This resulted in a LSD-like delirium for at least seven hours (2). It was published in Annals of Internal Medicine and the reference (2) to it is easily found on PubMed.

Wolff’s group concluded, ‘‘from these observations it is clear that BOL-148 in relatively small amount produced a delirious reaction similar in almost all respects to that of LSD’’​

Thank you!

So according to this published medical journal article, 2-Br-LSD (and who knows what else) could well be responsible for some instances of acid that seems similar to but not quite exactly LSD after all. So much for the nearly religious beliefs some express that nothing related-to-but-not-actually-LSD could ever be active in blotterable amounts and influence a trip.
 
DwayneHoover said:
Well, well.

skillet posted in http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...-depression.?p=9919536&viewfull=1#post9919536

Yeah there's some controversy about 2-Br-LSD being non-hallucinogenic:

a case study describing how a 28-year-old worker in the laboratory of Harold G. Wolff took BOL-148 0.5 mg for a ‘‘pounding’’ vascular headache. This resulted in a LSD-like delirium for at least seven hours (2). It was published in Annals of Internal Medicine and the reference (2) to it is easily found on PubMed.

Wolff’s group concluded, ‘‘from these observations it is clear that BOL-148 in relatively small amount produced a delirious reaction similar in almost all respects to that of LSD’’​

Thank you!

So according to this published medical journal article, 2-Br-LSD (and who knows what else) could well be responsible for some instances of acid that seems similar to but not quite exactly LSD after all. So much for the nearly religious beliefs some express that nothing related-to-but-not-actually-LSD could ever be active in blotterable amounts and influence a trip.
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But who would go through all the trouble just to make an LSD analogue and sell it? Certainly LSD would be easier to make, its been made underground for almost 50 years now. The only thing I can think of is they were trying to make LSD and accidentally made some other LSx by making it wrong, which would mean it is a "bad" or "dirty" batch
 
DwayneHoover said:
Well, well.


Wolff’s group concluded, ‘‘from these observations it is clear that BOL-148 in relatively small amount produced a delirious reaction similar in almost all respects to that of LSD’’[/I][/I][/INDENT]

Thank you!
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Well, well indeed. Has this "Wolff" guy ever taken LSD? Furthur, has the guy who claimed he was in a "LSD-delerium"? For a start the word "delerium" is absolutely NOTHING like what most people would describe the effects of LSD.

You'll need more than this to support your theorires I'm afraid Dwayne. A fuck of a lot more.
 
Well, I can't really weigh in on the whole "dirty acid" debate because I've never had an LSD experience with an intensely negative bodyload. However, to everyone on here who is wondering whether or not some shit they took was DOx:

Trust me, you will know DOx blotter when you see it. Much larger and incredibly bitter. Now, I've had some LSD blotter that was kind of bitter, but it came nowhere close to the DOx. And when I say bitter I mean it was comparable to chewing up a Xanax.
 
I've never taken large blotter. Thank you, DwayneHoover, I was sure I wasn't wrong but didn't want to back up something I could only defend with personal experience and the experience of others.

In relation to LSD related delirium, delirium is generally (at least in this case, at microgram levels) associated with psychoactives, correct? If you're saying that because he didn't have experience, he didn't experience what would be known as drug related, then I believe you're incorrect. I mean, yeah, he didn't take LSD, but what he took showed itself to be psychoactive, correct?
 
DwayneHoover said:
Well, well.

skillet posted in http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...-depression.?p=9919536&viewfull=1#post9919536

Yeah there's some controversy about 2-Br-LSD being non-hallucinogenic:

a case study describing how a 28-year-old worker in the laboratory of Harold G. Wolff took BOL-148 0.5 mg for a ‘‘pounding’’ vascular headache. This resulted in a LSD-like delirium for at least seven hours (2). It was published in Annals of Internal Medicine and the reference (2) to it is easily found on PubMed.

Wolff’s group concluded, ‘‘from these observations it is clear that BOL-148 in relatively small amount produced a delirious reaction similar in almost all respects to that of LSD’’​

Thank you!

So according to this published medical journal article, 2-Br-LSD (and who knows what else) could well be responsible for some instances of acid that seems similar to but not quite exactly LSD after all. So much for the nearly religious beliefs some express that nothing related-to-but-not-actually-LSD could ever be active in blotterable amounts and influence a trip.
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Who the fuck would want to synth 2-Br-LSD or who knows what else instead of LSD when they require the same precursors? This is retared, sorry.
 
LogicSoDeveloped said:
In relation to LSD related delirium, delirium is generally (at least in this case, at microgram levels) associated with psychoactives, correct?
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It's more that saying LSD is like "delerium" is what someone who has no knowledge of LSD would say. I've never heard anyone who'se actually taken LSD call it "delerium".
 
Ismene said:
It's more that saying LSD is like "delerium" is what someone who has no knowledge of LSD would say. I've never heard anyone who'se actually taken LSD call it "delerium".
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If it was non-hallucinogenic like that drug is supposed to be, but still put you in the head space of LSD then it would seem pretty delirious to me
 
But that guy isn't saying it's non-hallucinogenic. He's saying it's exactly the same as LSD. But he clearly doesn't know what LSD is like or he wouldn't call it delerium.
 
We would have to look at the actual published article. I suppose the author evaluated the subject's reported effects and compared them to those reported for LSD. Calling them "delirium" is most likely just a typical judgmental label applied by the physician who authored the report, who wants to display his disapproval of recreational drugs. I don't think one can draw any conclusions about the actual effects of the substance from the author's decision to label them "delirium," that's just verbal fluff I'd bet.

My point was here is a substance related to LSD whose effects someone evaluated in a peer reviewed medical report as very similar to LSD active in a blotterable dose. Fixating on the word "delerium" used by the author is missing the point. The point is that it disproves baseless claims that it is impossible for anything other than LSD to be active at such doses. If this one exists there could be others. As has already been shown anyway in the "non-lsd ergoloids" topic.
 
Ismene said:
It's more that saying LSD is like "delerium" is what someone who has no knowledge of LSD would say. I've never heard anyone who'se actually taken LSD call it "delerium".
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So you're not familiar with project MKULTRA?

I mean, you're splitting hairs at this point. You're saying that LSD can't ever cause "delirium" yet have no explanation for the potential for a bad trip.
 
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