[LSD Subthread] The Clean vs. Dirty Acid Debate (Part 1 - Archived)

[SKL]

^ also true

 

[feelgoodhit]

'Dirty' LSD means the LSD is not pure LSD. This could mean active cuts (yes, it's possible.... DOx on tabs, any number of things in microdots or candies or other such things), sloppy synth jobs leading to, e.g., iso-LSD, or a different substance entirely with no actual LSD. 'Clean' means LSD is the only active ingredient.

what i'm essentially saying is that if it gives you an acid trip it's lsd. the character of the trip is not determined by "rainbowy acid" or "headfuck acid" or what have you.

 

[It's a baby!]

Haha the dealers in my town don't know shit about acid. They think there's different kinds. Like when I was in the car with one, he gave me the run-down "there's body buzz acid, which gives you a body buzz unless you eat a lot, and visual acid which makes you see stuff, and L-25 which is a potent hallucinogen". The worst part is when they say like "oh it's great body buzz stuff!"

I wanted to be like "you f-ing idiot" but he had my 100$ in his hand so I just nodded and smiled

 

[Morninggloryseed]

I believe in the tooth fairy! Nevertheless, if you take yourself seriously...you have to acknowledge that this is a bunch of horsewash! LSD is LSD. I'm not saying you are wrong, because I'm sure you believe you can detect differences between LSD batches. But no one else could. Just as few others see the tooth fairy I am chatting with now!

I'm not saying you are 'wrong', rather just silly to assume your beliefs are my reality. I think you are silly to assume that because you believe in all of this...that if I consume LSD from a 'dirty maker' I'm going to have my trip influenced by that person's karmic being. That's your reality brother, not mine. In my reality, LSD is LSD and the trip that happens, happens because of my Karma...not someone else's who may (or may not) have handled it, or made it.

Then again, maybe that explains why I saw a Chinese guy in a huge warehouse in Shanghai in my latest 2C-T-7 vision, where as four years ago in previous T7 visuals I saw a large Italian man in New Jersey eating a Krispy Creme.

I, for one, however believe that individuals involved with synthesizing, laying, and distributing the LSD can impart some of their vibrations, energies, karma, or whatever you want to call it to the LSD crystal itself, which in turn can affect the individual experience that the LSD produces. (It's no coincidence that we are dealing w/CRYSTALS.) This has a great deal to do with why some LSD feels better than others, and why LSD obtained from "commercial" sources often winds up being more of a recreational, versus a spiritual, type of experience. Of course, LSD is LSD is LSD, and it's affects on your mind will be the same, but there is much to be said for the energies that it creates.

 

[B9]

LSD is LSD

QFT


However what is on a blotter can be another matter.

 

[fastandbulbous]

I, for one, however believe that individuals involved with synthesizing, laying, and distributing the LSD can impart some of their vibrations, energies, karma, or whatever you want to call it to the LSD crystal itself, which in turn can affect the individual experience that the LSD produces.

Having, in the past, being in a position to 'influence' the LSD in the way you mention, I believe the bit about energies etc. is utter twaddle. After the state of decomposition to iso-LSD, it's set & setting (& nothing else).

If intentions etc did influence the trip, it puts all of thermodynamics theories etc in the realms of fairy stories...

 

[swilow]

Disclaimer (drunk )



Bestest post you ever made

Well, its taken me about 6000 so you'd hope eventually something good would come of my ramblings....

Final word- LSD is ALWAYS LSD. Nothing you can do to the molecule can change that. It is, as some people have said, a 'dirty' or fearful mind that makes 'dirty acid'. LSD has no QUALITIES- it simply is the diethyl amide of lysergic acid. LSD. It can't NOT be LSD if it is. The only value LSD can really have is in terms of how much you've just eaten. LSD defnies zen- it is and always will be. LSD doesn't even NEED ahuman brain to exist, amazingly. It is ISNESS itselfness.



Ah, yes Swiow=willow11. Sory to alarm any PDers

 

[ladyinthesky]

^indeed

LSD is LSD

im sorry but your title pisses me off

 

[swilow]

^What, swilow?

 

[ladyinthesky]

title of the thread lol

sorry

how come the change btw???

 

[tobala]

^What, swilow?

I believe in Swahili swilow means "I wish to do unspeakable things to your posterior orifice, young lady," so it will eventually piss somebody off.

But don't mind me, I'm tripping asscrack on some "bad karma" LSD (the mid- to end-retail level dealer mistreats puppies)...

 

[dorothyperkins]

lol!

 

[swilow]

Lulz for toabala.....swilow just for fun. My initali is S.

 

[fastandbulbous]

colour me confused

 

[feelgoodhit]

^indeed

LSD is LSD

im sorry but your title pisses me off

keeping in mind that i made the exact same argument willow did...

 

[swilow]

am i the only one that thinks this is completely silly & that purer acid just means a different method of synthesis?

Thats the only part I don't agree with. No matter how you synthesize LSD, thats what you are synthesising. I guess more inactive components may get involved if the cook was dodgy, but that doesn't effect the LSD.

 

[itsALLfake]

but it could very well effect the feeling on that paticular LSD^

 

[dankstersauce]

i'll be the hundredth person to say lsd is lsd.
but to the people who are open to suggestion it's a whole other story. I remember when I was like 15 or 16 years old and my friends had me convinced that acid gel tabs had mescaline in them. So i ate 4 green gel tabs and since i was open to suggestion i tripped super hard, and it was unlike any acid trip i had before. but the truth was that it was just strong acid, but since lsd feeds off the mind and my mind believed this was going to be awesome and unique, it was awesome and very unique. Kind of a self-fulfilling acid trip.

Similiar to now, i know that if i candyflip on new years it's going to be awesome...odds are it's going to be awesome.

last time i bought doses someone told me that "this stuff is more visual, less of a mind fuck" i knew it was bullshit but kept my mouth shut and i figured it was just weaker than the paper they had before, so then i ate 7 hits and had the strongest mindfuck and visuals i've ever had. i'd say that like 90% of people are just retarded when it comes to acid.....myself included for eating 7 hits from a new batch.

 

[fastandbulbous]

last time i bought doses someone told me that "this stuff is more visual, less of a mind fuck" i knew it was bullshit but kept my mouth shut and i figured it was just weaker than the paper they had before

Could also have been DOB, DOI etc with that description. No, eating 7 straight off isn't what the smart people do...

but nobody's perfect (shouldn't stop us from trying though )

 

[It's a baby!]

Hmm I've been thinking about this a lot lately, specifically about the synthesis of LSD and what possible impurities could result from it. Most people who have at some point in their lives worked with pure crystal (not just chinacat, but older folks I know irl) confirm that there are different grades based on quality which were differentiated by color. So there was Amber and Lavender and all of that. It seems like the main impurity in all of these was something black-colored, as the range of crystal-quality follows the color line from darker to lighter shades.

I think one thing that'd be worth investigating is the other byproduct of Ergotamine hydrolysis. For the non-chemistry literate (and I'm not a chemist by any means, I just have a bit of interest in it and knowledge somewhere above a layperson but undoubtedly below a college grad):

Most of the LSD in the US is produced from diverted Ergotamine tartrate (see: http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/dea/product/lsd/lsd-5.htm). The molecular diagram of ergotamine looks like this:

while D-(+)-Lysergic acid looks like this:

Notice that the Lysergic acid is part of the Ergotamine molecule. Ergotamine is like lysergic acid + a lot of other stuff added on. When you perform an alkaline
hydrolysis on Ergotamine, the lysergic acid part is essentially separated from
the "other" part. I'm thinking that this mysterious "other" part could be the
contaminant, as I can't think of any other chemicals used that would form the
"nasty black stuff" which ex-LSD printers and hippies alike claim is the source
of LSD impurity.

I'm gonna post back later tonight or maybe tomorrow. I need to do a little pen-and-paper work to see exactly what this "other" part is, and whether it could be present in the clandestine lysergic acid, how it would react, and what
the final product would look like.

This whole thing will also be interesting because it can give some insight into
what method underground LSD cooks use specifically for coupling the lysergic
acid with diethylamine. I've always wondered if they use the method described (though not invented) by Shulgin using POCl3 as a dehydrating reagent, or the
higher-yielding Peptide-coupling reagents (PyBOP, DCC, etc.), or the original Hofmann method. I could see arguments for all of them from a clandestine perspective (from a legitimate perspective, i.e. in an ideal world, the peptide coupling method is by far the best, both in terms of simplicity and yield).

For example, POCl3 isn't easy to order or prepare, but I suppose a clandestine
chemist would likely have the connections to procure all the chemicals he needs. With the Hofmann method, while it's far lower-yielding, it's a bit more OTC (i.e. forming anhydrous hydrazine is easier than cooking up a batch of Phosphoryl chloride).