Long-term cannabis use can double risk of psychosis

[Pillthrill]

I think maybe weed just exacerbates a already existing condition, perhaps to the point that it can be noticed (and treated) IF it does ANYTHING at all

 

[drug_mentor]

Weed definately makes one prone to anxiety and paranoia when abused, I have no doubt t would exaccerbate these conditions in those who already have them. It is also a fact that people with mental illnesses are more likely to abuse drugs.

I think long term cannabis use does increase the risk of psychosis in individuals prone to it, but studies like this make out that everyone on earth has a chance at developing these illnesses and weed doubles it, as though its just luck of the draw if you get it and weed increases your chances of being unlucky, this is just not the case.

 

[Huaca]

Recently, depression led me back to cannabis after 30 years of abstinence. I'm doing great now. A few bowls a day keeps the doctor away. People with problems seek relief. Cannabis helps a lot.

 

[spaceyourbass]

But if by "real" you are trying to insinuate that schizophrenia is an actual physiological pathology like diabetes with a specific causal mechanism, then you're incorrect. Schizophrenia is not a neurological disease, it is only an arbitrary categorization of behavioral symptoms.

This is not a fact. It is well known that schizophrenics have different brains than non-schizos. That's proven by looking at twins that have one normal twin and one schizophrenic twin. You don't even need twins though, when you look at the brain it's obvious. Scientists in the 1800's, when the disease really started to manifest, even noted brain differences by doing autopsies.

Schizophrenics have a loss of gray matter, sometimes upwards to 25%. The more loss of gray matter, the more 'positive' symptoms the person has (hallucinations, paranoia, the list goes on). There are also differences in certain lobes of schizophrenics that are well-documented (parietal lobe, frontal lobe, perhaps temporal as well).


Schizophrenia is often mis-diagnosed, but that doesn't mean it's just "an arbitrary categorization of behavioral symptoms" It is a very real disease. Most people with schizophrenia have never used hallucinogenic drugs, if that's your objection.

Adopted children have a much higher risk of developing schizophrenia at some point in their lives. Not because they are adopted or because of their environment...its because parents with severe schizophrenia give their kids up to adoption more often than non-schizo parents. Studies have shown that schizophrenia is a genetic disease; if your parents or someone in your family has schizophrenia, your at high risk for developing the disease yourself. If you don't accept this as fact, you're living in the past.

 

[spaceyourbass]

Can't cannabis trigger schizophrenia if schizophrenia is in the family? Sorry if i sound like a complete dumb ass, just curious.

That's actually the sentiment of many of todays "experts." Its thought that marijuana will not cause schizophrenia, but it might just bring it on earlier than if the person didn't use MJ.

But to finish what I was saying in my last post...schizophrenia is a disease. It has a specific set of symptoms that can be treated with a specific set of neuroleptics. Just because we don't know the cause doesn't mean it's not a disease.

Brain abnormalities in schizophrenics -
http://www.schizophrenia.com/research/schiz.brain.htm

 

[nuke]

What's that you say? People who are more likely to develop psychosis are twice as likely to smoke cannabis?

 

[Roger&Me]

http://www.schizophrenia.com/research/schiz.brain.htm

This methodology is flawed. You take a population of patients who "have schizophrenia" and then you use neuroimaging to map their brains. But there's no way to know if those people actually have schizophrenia or not, because there's no biopsy that can provide proof they ever had schizophrenia in the first place. They're relying completely on the subjective opinions of a few people to make the diagnosis: that methodology is crap and its not scientific at all-- I could contrive a study to prove just about anything if I were subject to restrictions that lax.

edit-- I'm not arguing that 'schizophrenics' don't have a problem. I just don't think its a biological disease. IMO they are people with very serious psychological disturbances. But trying to fix them with psychopharmacology is like trying to get cigarette commercials taken off of television by calling a television repair man. Treating schizophrenics with neuroleptics is just like messing with the wiring in the TV to make the picture fuzzy so you can't notice the cigarette ads, but you also lose any other programming of value in the process.

 

[SpiralOut]

Obviously this "study" is a crock, but even if it wasn't. . .what are they really trying to say?

The occurrence of delusions, hallucinations, and schizophrenia in the general population are mind-bogglingly low. So even if you were to, as they attest, "double" your chances you'd still have an impossibly low chance of ever having problems.

Of course, that's not even discussing all the positive benefits of smoking marijuana weighed against a few more folks having mental disorders.

 

[kayenta]

Correct me if I am wrong here, but it seems that almost all of this 'research' supposedly linking cannabis with psychotic illnesses seems to come out of the UK, which is odd. This is also the country whose media was reporting a few years ago that today's cannabis is 40 times stronger than in the 70s...

And even if it is true, having my risk of mental illness raised from say, 0.1% to 0.2% is not exactly going to keep me awake at night.

 

[Tenchi]

We're in the depths of our own Reefer Madness right now, and it's a fucking shame.

 

[Liquid Sunshine]

This is probably the least scientific thing I've read in a long time. SO MANY OTHER VARIABLES.

 

[pofacedhoe]

http://www.schizophrenia.com/research/schiz.brain.htm

This methodology is flawed. You take a population of patients who "have schizophrenia" and then you use neuroimaging to map their brains. But there's no way to know if those people actually have schizophrenia or not, because there's no biopsy that can provide proof they ever had schizophrenia in the first place. They're relying completely on the subjective opinions of a few people to make the diagnosis: that methodology is crap and its not scientific at all-- I could contrive a study to prove just about anything if I were subject to restrictions that lax.

edit-- I'm not arguing that 'schizophrenics' don't have a problem. I just don't think its a biological disease. IMO they are people with very serious psychological disturbances. But trying to fix them with psychopharmacology is like trying to get cigarette commercials taken off of television by calling a television repair man. Treating schizophrenics with neuroleptics is just like messing with the wiring in the TV to make the picture fuzzy so you can't notice the cigarette ads, but you also lose any other programming of value in the process.

basically yes- my friend was given neuroleptics for bipolar and he couldn't do anything so had to give them up-his intelligence and awareness was gone. had to quit them to keep his job

they are a very blunt way of dealing with the problem

 

[seep]

Correct me if I am wrong here, but it seems that almost all of this 'research' supposedly linking cannabis with psychotic illnesses seems to come out of the UK, which is odd.

It's no coincidence that a lot of the studies use the Oxford-Liverpool standard for measuring schizophrenia-proneness. See if there's something amiss here:

• When in the dark do you often see shapes and forms even though there is nothing there? yes
• Are your thoughts sometimes so strong that you can almost hear them? yes
• Have you ever thought that you had special, almost magical powers? yes
• Have you sometimes sensed an evil presence around you, even though you could not see it? yes
• Do you think that you could learn to read other’s minds if you wanted to? yes
• When you look in the mirror does your face sometimes seem quite different from usual? yes
• Do ideas and insights sometimes come to you so fast that you cannot express them all? yes
• Can some people make you aware of them just by thinking about you? yes
• Does a passing thought ever seem so real it frightens you? yes
• Do you feel that your accidents are caused by mysterious forces? yes
• Do you ever have a sense of vague danger or sudden dread for reasons that you do not understand? yes
• Does your sense of smell sometimes become unusually strong? yes
• Are there very few things that you have ever enjoyed doing? yes
• Are you much too independent to get involved with other people? yes
• Do you love having your back massaged? no
• Do you find the bright lights of a city exciting to look at? no
• Do you feel very close to your friends? no
• Has dancing or the idea of it always seemed dull to you? no
• Do you like mixing with people? no
• Is trying new foods something you have always enjoyed? no
• Have you often felt uncomfortable when your friends touch you? yes
• Do you prefer watching television to going out with people? no
• Are you easily confused if too much happens at the same time? yes
• Do you frequently have difficulty in starting to do things? yes
• Are you a person whose mood goes up and down easily? yes
• Do you dread going into a room by yourself where other people have already gathered and are talking? no
• Do you find it difficult to keep interested in the same thing for a long time? yes
• Do you often have difficulties in controlling your thoughts? yes
• Are you easily distracted from work by daydreams? yes
• Do you ever feel that your speech is difficult to understand because the words are all mixed up and don’t make sense? yes
• Are you easily distracted when you read or talk to someone? yes
• Is it hard for you to make decisions? yes
• When in a crowded room, do you often have difficulty in following a conversation? yes
• Do you consider yourself to be pretty much an average sort of person? no
• Would you like other people to be afraid of you? yes
• Do you often feel the impulse to spend money which you know you can’t afford? yes
• Are you usually in an average kind of mood, not too high and not too low? no
• Do you at times have an urge to do something harmful or shocking? yes
• Do you stop to think things over before doing anything? yes. no. yes
• Do you often overindulge in alcohol or food? yes
• Do you ever have the urge to break or smash things? yes
• Have you ever felt the urge to injure yourself? yes
• Do you often feel like doing the opposite of what other people suggest even though you know they are right? yes

 

[seep]

I'm more than a bit obsessed by this at the moment. One of the measuring instruments in this study was the Peters Delusions Inventory, which asks the following questions.

NSFW:

1) Do you ever feel as if people seem to drop hints about you or say things with a double meaning?
2) Do you ever feel as if things in magazines or on TV were written especially for you?
3) Do you ever feel as if some people are not what they seem to be?
4) Do you ever feel as if you are being persecuted in some way?
5) Do you ever feel as if there is a conspiracy against you?
6) Do you ever feel as if you are, or destined to be someone very important?
7) Do you ever feel that you are a very special or unusual person?
8) Do you ever feel that you are especially close to God?
9) Do you ever think people can communicate telepathically?
10) Do you ever feel as if electrical devices such as computers can influence the way you think?
11) Do you ever feel as if you have been chosen by God in some way?
12) Do you believe in the power of witchcraft, voodoo or the occult?
13) Are you often worried that your partner may be unfaithful?
14) Do you ever feel that you have sinned more than the average person?
15) Do you ever feel that people look at you oddly because of your appearance?
16) Do you ever feel as if you had no thoughts in your head at all?
17) Do you ever feel as if the world is about to end?
18) Do your thoughts ever feel alien to you in some way?
19) Have your thoughts ever been so vivid that you were worried other people would hear them?
20) Do you ever feel as if your own thoughts were being echoed back to you?
21) Do you ever feel as if you are a robot or zombie without a will of your own?

I believe I can answer yes to all of these because of psychedelics, and for argument's sake I'll include weed as a psychedelic. If that means that I'm delusional, so be it. Psychedelics have allowed me to reach areas of thought and perception that would otherwise be unknown to me, and I'm grateful for that.

 

[Huaca]

For sure bullshit tests. No matter how you answer those questions, it won't prove anything.

 

[Roger&Me]

This "delusional inventory" is complete crap.

I've never seen anything more erroneous and full of shit in my life, honestly. Fuck these "experts" who try to tell people whether they're delusional or not. The irony is that its these so-called "experts" who are the delusional ones.

1) Do you ever feel as if people seem to drop hints about you or say things with a double meaning?

People DO drop hints about other people, say things with double meaning, backhanded compliments etc.

3) Do you ever feel as if some people are not what they seem to be?

People lie all the time, a lot of people aren't who they seem to be.

4) Do you ever feel as if you are being persecuted in some way?

Yeah when I don't show up for work or school they persecute the living crap out of me.

6) Do you ever feel as if you are, or destined to be someone very important?

I can be whatever I want to be, they told me this in pre-school.

7) Do you ever feel that you are a very special or unusual person?

Yes, I am a special an unique snowflake-- they told me this in pre-school also.

12) Do you believe in the power of witchcraft, voodoo or the occult?

Most people on earth spend lots of time praying to shit that doesn't exist, that doesn't make them crazy-- it just makes them regular people, with doubts and fears that can't be assuaged otherwise.

13) Are you often worried that your partner may be unfaithful?

The cover articles on countless women's magazines read "Is he cheating on you??". We live in a society that encourages infidelity in many ways, I don't think this is an illogical fear to have.

14) Do you ever feel that you have sinned more than the average person?

Confession booths always seem to be full at the cathedral down the street.

15) Do you ever feel that people look at you oddly because of your appearance?

Dress funny and walk around, people will look at you oddly.

17) Do you ever feel as if the world is about to end?

In every period of human history, people have thought this. They think it now, they thought it in the time of jesus, they thought it in the time of buddha. Whatever man, that's the first thought that comes to mind during periods of massive change.

 

[orangescrewpen]

these questions are hilarious, we should come up with a satirical list of questions and have people give funny answers

 

[slimvictor]

Good job, Roger&Me!
I was thinking of "deconstructing" the questions as well, before I saw that you had already done it.

There is no one who is not "crazy".
If there is, I am scared shitless of them.

 

[Roger&Me]

^Yeah, you hear mental health professionals talk about "disorders" a lot. But I don't think they've ever actually published an official "order".

They're telling us we're not normal, but they can't even define what normal is. It doesn't make any sense.

Its wise to be skeptical of those people, methinks.