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lisdexamfetamine (Vyvanse) for schizophrenia

ektamine said:
I'm not schizophrenic so I can't say for certain, but honestly I suspect they are just trying to find one more label use to stamp on amphetamines in order to addict the masses and profit from the outcome. Just like prescribing it to any young child that still has the young child left in him.

:|
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your retarted. i am schizophrenic and amphetamines dont aggravate positive symptoms for everyone. In fact they are the only thing that work for my negative symptoms. Amphetamine has a large and special effect on glutamate which is responsible for the negative symptoms more than dopamine. Unfortunately glutamate agonists are not available so gotta use amp.
 
NeighborhoodThreat said:
Yeah, after three days of not sleeping, amphetamine psychosis nearly mimics the DSM-IV diagnosis for schizophrenia. I'm interested to see where the pharm companies go with this one.
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Amp psychosis can produce symptoms similar to paranoid schizophrenia, but catatonic schizophrenia has its own set of diagnostic criteria which more resemble some forms of autism if anything.

Perhaps that's where the pharma companies are heading with this one - the range of disorders which are characterised to a large extent by living inwardly. Any significant leap forward in the treatments currently available for those disorders is going to reap huge financial benefits for the pharma companies which pioneer then.
 
bben said:
your retarted. i am schizophrenic and amphetamines dont aggravate positive symptoms for everyone. In fact they are the only thing that work for my negative symptoms. Amphetamine has a large and special effect on glutamate which is responsible for the negative symptoms more than dopamine. Unfortunately glutamate agonists are not available so gotta use amp.
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Why thank you for the compliment.

ektamine said:
I'm not schizophrenic so I can't say for certain.
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But alas, you are right. Voicing one's speculation is a sure sign of retardation.
 
bben said:
Unfortunately glutamate agonists are not available
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that may change in the next few years. Roche has a glycine transporter inhibitor in phase 3 trials, specifically for treating the negative symptoms of schizophrenia. If glycine is better able to bind to its site on the NMDA receptor then glutamatergic neurotransmission is enhanced.

Then again, schizophrenia itself may change soon. See here.
 
It certainly eliminates my symptoms altho i take very small doses (less than i'm scripted). When i was taking my scripted dose, i would stay up for days pulling my hair out and arguing with the voices in my head

People give amps a bad name cause they abuse them. I think that's ignorant
 
Its worked with alzhiemer symptoms in me. (I have an organic brain disorder from head injuries + epic shitloads of drugs+heavy metal exposure etc.)

Still if im SUPER sleep deprived(to make money) I GET FUCKING CRAZY(well just fucking nervous especially in stress provoking situations)


Some autism spectrum is childhood schizophrenia!
I bet alot of the bad schizophrenia from stim psychosis is neurotoxicity which happens from the traditionally non neurotoxic substances from malnutrition.

Not that the more efficent / more neurotoxic ones cant be better for some situations IMO
 
That glycine thing is interesting!
Ive been in stim psychosis from sleep dep, and felt completely sane double dosing some lysdex, glycine and inositiol.
After that even I began to get more interested in glycine and inositiol for mental clarity(which feels like the intitial effects of stimululants)
 
My mom did her dissertation on a connection between autism and caseine/gluten intolerance, so i've learned quite a bit about the subject myself since. She did her research in 02'. There are a lot more studies being done on it now. Just do a relevant search on youtube and you'll find many videos of personal experiences and recovery stories

I myself am gluten-intolerant (borderline celiac), which i just recently discovered after all these years of being tired, confused, bloated and having major pain+stiffness in my body..

One day in september, i decided to give up on grains for a week and the difference was huge.. it's amazing how shitty i felt before vs now. Not to mention most of my schizophrenic symptoms and depression virtually disappeared within a month or so -- I still get dissociation, but it isn't a constant experience anymore.. and my anxiety is more manageable

I just wish i could get those last 27 years back, but it's better late than never
 
Focus people

The point of the initial post was to discuss the development of lisdexamfetamine for use in schizophrenia.

As it pertains to schizophrenia, there are three predominant symptom "domains"
Positive Symptoms
Negative Symptoms
Cognitive Dysfunction

The use of lisdexamfetamine is like to help palliate the symptoms of cognitive dysfunction and possibly treat the negative symptoms that can occur. These are typically the most debilitating symptom types of schizophrenia and thus the impetus for researching with lisdexamfetamine is likely an attempt at trying something to actually improve these.

It should have nothing to do with schools, big pharma, and parents with no patience. These arguments are fallacious in the context of schizophrenia: men don't typically get diagnosed until mid 20s, and women the late 20s to early 30s, thus it is hardly likely a physician is going to try this in a child for schizophrenia. Also, since it already has an indication for ADHD, I would say you should trust the discretion of most psychiatrists that prescribe these meds. It becomes troubling when general practitioners/family doctors try to treat ADHD without fully understanding the disease symptomatology or having the experience in rationally prescribing meds. These physicians also have no training in psychotherapy and thus likely have no idea about the benefits therein. Some mild-to-moderate cases of ADHD can be treated with psychotherapy alone, but without the experience and knowledge it makes it hard to see which patients would be a good candidate for this modality.
 
here here! I would like to hear people with experience in using this for schizophrenia, not hear the same old cynical debate about the pharmaceutical industry and how they are "poisoning" our children...
Thank you for making this comment!
 
Psychedelic Jay said:
Wouldn't this lead to a neutral amount of dopamine if it was used with an antipsychotic?
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No antipsychotics only block dopamine in the limbic system not the prefrontal cortex, d2 is not expressed very much in the PFC, althought it is expressed somewhat. Antipsychotics mostly leave open d1 which stimulates growth factors and potentiates neural activity, d2 is inhibitory in general in the brain. Some block 5ht2a also which stimulates 5ht1a activity but thats another story.

It only leads to neutral amounts of dopamine in the limbic system which is why you need antipsychotics with amp if your schizo, amphetamine has effects on glutamate that antipsychotics wont block, and it releases dopamine in the PFC that they wont block.

So the goal is to preserve amphetamines effect on the PFC while blocking its limbic effect to some degree, although not totally allowing for natural reward and motivation to be felt.

I like using risperidone at 1 mg or lower doses to augment dextroamphetamine. Low dose risperidone only blocks around 20% of d2 and a larger percentage of 5ht2a, this allows for improved cognition with amphetamine while not aggravating psychosis. Amphetamines glutamate effect is also very important and why its superior to methylphenidate in augmenting schizophrenia.

Shire has done trials with atypical antipsychotics and dextroamphetamine aka vyvanse and has had good results. I also have talked to people anecdotally who had much success with it. Take with NAC for maximum efficacy.
 
jjpaulse said:
here here! I would like to hear people with experience in using this for schizophrenia, not hear the same old cynical debate about the pharmaceutical industry and how they are "poisoning" our children...
Thank you for making this comment!
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I can talk through p.ms, i do lots of experimental research on novel treatments for the negative symptoms of schizophrenia.
 
No antipsychotics only block dopamine in the limbic system not the prefrontal cortex, d2 is not expressed very much in the PFC, althought it is expressed somewhat. Antipsychotics mostly leave open d1 which stimulates growth factors and potentiates neural activity, d2 is inhibitory in general in the brain. Some block 5ht2a also which stimulates 5ht1a activity but thats another story.

It only leads to neutral amounts of dopamine in the limbic system which is why you need antipsychotics with amp if your schizo, amphetamine has effects on glutamate that antipsychotics wont block, and it releases dopamine in the PFC that they wont block.

So the goal is to preserve amphetamines effect on the PFC while blocking its limbic effect to some degree, although not totally allowing for natural reward and motivation to be felt.

I like using risperidone at 1 mg or lower doses to augment dextroamphetamine. Low dose risperidone only blocks around 20% of d2 and a larger percentage of 5ht2a, this allows for improved cognition with amphetamine while not aggravating psychosis. Amphetamines glutamate effect is also very important and why its superior to methylphenidate in augmenting schizophrenia.

Shire has done trials with atypical antipsychotics and dextroamphetamine aka vyvanse and has had good results. I also have talked to people anecdotally who had much success with it. Take with NAC for maximum efficacy.
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This is all very interesting stuff. I have found that I can use d-amp during the day, take a seroquel at night, and i'm 100% good to go. I used to be scripted 60mg dex a day and couldn't sleep properly i think that was the main problem. But now that i'm 31 it seems like i'm more prone to psychosis or might even have mild schizophrenia (no positive symptoms, but all the negative.. unless i overuse stimulants w/o some seroquel to pop at night i get some mild psychosis stuff happening even after missing one night of sleep)

The newer drug Latuda (lurasidone) is interesting.. it causes NO sedation, and you can take it during the day without making you sleepy and the last time i had psychosis i took 40mg of it, and less than an hour later all psychosis was totally gone. Also it seems to barely block stimulants.. maybe a tiny bit but not much. Seems like a combo of Latuda+Vyvanse would be great for a schizophrenic (if Latuda worked good for them, and they don't have insomnia from the stimulant).

Also i'm now curious about Acetylcysteine/NAC... what does it do does it actually help negative symptoms (the reason amphetamines are used)?

edit: Also I know a good friend of mine who went through the whole psychosis thing at the same time I did. She had the same problem, 60mg adderall a day for years, lack of sleep for long enough (more like sleeping very little over several years, not like a 3 day binge type of thing). Now she takes risperidone at night (still takes adderall) and says everything is back to normal. No more government spy's out to get her etc.
 
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bben said:
I like using risperidone at 1 mg or lower doses to augment dextroamphetamine. Low dose risperidone only blocks around 20% of d2 and a larger percentage of 5ht2a, this allows for improved cognition with amphetamine while not aggravating psychosis. Amphetamines glutamate effect is also very important and why its superior to methylphenidate in augmenting schizophrenia.
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Interesting. What D-AMP doses are involved? For what is the risperidone indicated?
 
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