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Let's talk about the benefits or evils of using antipsychotics/benzos to kill a trip

Xorkoth said:
I guess it's partially a question of whether you're tripping to discover yourself and solve your issues, or if you're tripping for recreation.

Bingo. I completely agree, and would like to attempt to take this a couple steps further. I hate to oversimplify something this complex, but I believe that most psychonauts tend to embrace one of two outlooks regarding the use of psychedelics:

1) A large portion of users would most certainly argue that mind-expanding drugs are powerful tools (and perhaps even sacred tools) whose purpose is to help an individual seek out a more intimate knowledge of the Self, the Greater Unknown, the Universe, God, etc.. Psychedelics are not to be toyed with, they are to be taken with great consideration and humility. They should be highly respected and valued for the power of insight which they are capable of providing the user.

2) The other opinion of psychedelics lies within the portion of users who simply don't view psychedelics with the aforementioned 'degree of reverence'. Although different, this group's psychedelic use still serves a purpose for them, mainly the enjoyment of being in an altered state, and taking pleasure in the ensuing body-highs they feel and light-shows they see. These users may be deemed to be a tad hedonistic by some, but it is what works for them and there is nothing really wrong about it. It is their personal choice.

I don't mean to say that these two views are the only views of psychedelic users. It is obviously not so black and white, as there exists plenty of grey overlapping area among most users regarding these opinions.

But here is my point: (and yes, I do have one ;))

It seems to me that individuals who gravitate towards the former opinion will probably perceive the use of pharmaceutical trip-stoppers as an unwarranted, and potentially detrimental, course of action. To them, it is not how psychedelics were meant to be used. Conversely, individuals who gravitate towards the latter opinion would probably see no harm whatsoever in taking things like benzos and opiates either before or during a trip. To them, tripping is mostly fun and games. If taking pharmies yealds a more fun trip or an easier time for them, then their goal has still been met.


I consider myself to be somewhere in the middle of this spectrum, and I am sure that many fellow bluelighters would consider themselves to be in the middle as well. Just my opinion :)
 
I say if you gotta kill a trip then you gotta kill it. It has only happened to me once but THANK GOD I HAD XANAX. I definitely wouldn't recommend going into a trip with intentions of ending it early but you gotta do what ya gotta do.
 
A benzo, sure. An antipsychotic might be a little much. There are 'softer' solutions if one is anxious/panicking, like valerian root (herbal anxiolytic) or DHEA (blunts cortisol response to reduce stress).
 
Great thread but I have a few questions if someone is having a phycotic break will administration of anti phycotics help in the long term or is it a quick patch until you can get them outside medical help. Maybe I have the wrong defination of a phycotic break but I thought they were real bad like never be the same again and often led to permanent phycosis? or is phycotic break and phycosis two completly different things to worry about? And finally this may be impossible but what do the afformintioned things menteniod feel like.
 
In most cases, administering an anti-psychotic to someone experiencing a break on a psychedelic should bring them pretty much back to baseline. No need to pursue medical help unless the medication seems to have no effect.

A psychotic break is just that - a break (ie temporary). Psychosis is really just a term for the mental state for someone experiencing a break from reality. A persisting state of psychosis is more akin to mental illness (eg schizofrenia). Psychedelics are not likely to cause schizophrenia unless it's an underlying condition. If that is the case, psychedelics can easily trigger the underlying illness to surface.
 
I have to post on the girlfriends name as i forgot my new user name; anywho to make a long story shorter; a week or two ago we took 1 single paper of blotter L, (my first time actually getting a colored print) I have had many many gel tabs...

Anyways we took the one paper and then one raibow gel each, however we knew from previous experiences the gels were very weak (first gels I have ever come across that were weak so that sucked)

I think we would of been fine if we had just stopped there and went and partied...but that would be not like her or I at all; we always have to do things to the extreme; instead of getting just a ball of coke, we try for 2 grams and a gram of dope and some benzos.

So we took 1 pill each right before going inside the place; that testing on the marquis to literally every color almost, there was small swirls of green(2cx), and redish brown (meth), then it all went to dark purple, no bubbling or fizzing....and i normally love dirty rolls so I thought these would be great. By dirty I don't mean speedy, i mean more physcedilic or more MDA.

We ended up seeing an awesome DJ at a smaller venue (2,000 or so people)

After about +4 hours after the blotter/gel and +2.5 of taking the pill it just starting getting way to hot; we decided to move down to the first floor and give up our premium seats, however we found some nice seats down below, we looked at the people around us....the kid next to me with his g/f eyes for so far back into his head i was jealous, then the other couple on the railing infront of us were pretty much having sex through there clothes...

So we agreed to leave and walked outside and it was nice and cool out, probably 65 F.

We took the subway home and were pretty calm and normal, minus one subway stopped in which we stopped and the floor was all colored and swirly looking

We get home. Relax, sit down and look up at the ceiling and stare for a bit, I asked her if she was seeing the same thing as I, just to make sure... We spent probably another hour or so starring at my computer background image of like 100x on a THC gland.

We decide immediately we need to take more L, as we have it and we know its strong white paper. This was probably 8-9 hours after taking the first 2 doses (if you count the weak gel tab), and 6-7 hours after taking the mystery pill.

Luckily I was able to recognize this in time, as we took another tab, took a shower, starred at the cool tile for an hour or so, then continued to trip on through the night....untill about 5 or 6 hours after that, when we are too tired and she wants to go to bed. I try explaining you can't go to bed 5 or 6 hours after taking L....she wouldn't listen, we ate 2mg of xanax xr each, (I forgot to mention we also has 2mg/s each in the club, however still XR).

It was morning at this point, we had tripped and missed the sunrise which is awesome, however it was still like 9am so I said okay i agreed to try to go to sleep...

about 20 or 30 minutes later she tells me she is going to have to take a seroquel (25mg), I ask why, I was still tripping nicely from the second dose, although in an almost pitch black room. She kept having CEV's of weird/loud shit and it would only happen right when she was about to fall asleep...

I insist she first try more xanax xr, so we do another 2 or 3mg's....and have a drink. We look up at the ceiling, yup still trippin balls. I try to explain to her why I don't want her to have to take the seroquel, we come and look online and read this thread....after another 30 mins or so and the 8mg of xanax was not putting her to sleep I got a little bit worried, as I have a bit more of a benzo tolerance, so she finally took one seroquel, and proceeded to pass out 15 minute later for 9 hours or so....I enjoyed the computer for I think another 30 minutes before getting sleepy.. this was around 10am the next day.

I think it might have been more psychological as it normally takes 25-30 mins minimum for me to feel seroquel and thats when I am not on any hard drugs just trying to sleep....
I had explained to her many times before how crazily strong Seroquel can be, even at low doses. You can do a gram of shitty coke and be sleeping 2 hours later;

However We both still wonder if it was the RC in the pill or L or what? Granted this was only the 2nd/3rd time she had ever dosed, and for some reason tripping she was able to convince me I could sleep 6 hours after taking probably 100mcg... and the first two times she took it happened 2 consecutive days at a festival a month or two prior....she had no problem there and we had a few seroquel just in case. I had it at least 10 times in high school....years ago before the L depression of the late 90's when those guys got busted.

She just told me the other day she thinks she would of had to go to the hospital if she didn't fall asleep, I still say she could of had more xanax, she just would of been passed out longer....as it was XR, however she was really freaking out, and I have seen other friends have bad trips, but nothing like this.

EDIT: anyone know where that thread can be found? I am fairly certain we posted it, however after 8 mgs of xanax throughout the night and day, I was pretty impaired. I searched by user name and nothing, like it was deleted, although it didn't violate any rules i don't think.
 
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lovebrisvegas said:
What about MDMA?

How many times have you seen a fucked up person given a pill?

MDMA forces you to be happy!
Well, one of the two bad trips I had was on MDMA... in the wrong set/setting it can be a deeply shaking experience with no insight whatsoever. I spent much of the trip cowering in foetal position against a tree, wishing that the poison would leave my body soon.

I'm not sure how much this says :\
 
Generally if I find that a psychedelic isnt letting me sleep I just find something to do until I can. Laying in bed trying to sleep is torture, the zaps just wont let you.

Though as of late I've found that I can sleep pretty easily on the tail of many psychedelics such as various 2c-x's, DOI, and LSD.

As to killing a trip, I dont think it's something an experienced psychonnaught should consider, and I dont think most would. when I trip harder then expectected it's a generally a bonus,

I can see how new trippers might find themselves unsettled by how deeply psychedelics can manipulate your perception of reality and some might find themselves overwhelmed but at the same time I don't think i'd usually encourage killing their trip.

When I was new to psychedelics I had a number of trips where I might have been tempted to abort in the early stages, but once I "got my feet under me" they turned out to be some of the most beautifully powerful experiences I've ever had.
 
i've seen benzo's and anti-psych's mentioned as one and the same in this thread a lot... benzo's don't abort but AP's do. a benzo would probably be a very good idea in most cases. helps you to take things one at a time which is sometimes impossible if you have a "bad trip".
I agree tho that bad trips are usually a good way of dealing with negative aspects of your psychy. I've had quite a few positive outcomes from bad trips and have felt a better, more whole person because of it.

When i've tripped i've never even thought of aborting things with an AP simply because i didn't have that knowledge at the time. It's always been a case of "you've taken it, you're stuck there" but i've always come out unscathed.

I'm going to take shrooms this year even tho i have an anxiety disorder. And i hope it can shed some light on the factors which effect me to feel anxious / have panic attacks.

Most of the times i've tripped i haven't had the prior incentive to explore my consciousness or gain some other psychological benefit from it. It's purely been either curiosity or shear unthought fun-treking. But this trip i'm planning is a bit of both. Also i'm intruiged to see if i can handle the experience these days. It's doubtful but i'm not going to let that get the better of me. I'm sure there'll be a positive outcome in the end.

My personal preference is that anti-psychotics are a bold step and should only be ingested in a case of a total psychotic breakdown. And even then i've never considered it. But yea, benzo's/ opiates (and to a lesser extent)/ alcohol would be a very useful tool in combating negative aspects of a trip gone tits up.

It's all about personal preference, as it is with a lot of things in life. So i don't see any reason to bite anyone's throat off for choosing to do so either way. But i also agree, psychedelics aren't for everyone. And anyone who has any idea about their mental position will know if they should or shouldn't take them. Anyone else is naive or looking to extend the length of their shlong.

anyway, happy head hunting trippoz <3 <3
 
I've taken benzos when i was peaking on some really really potent acid. I did it because it felt like my heart was ready to explode, and that each breath took an eternity. It felt like I was almost forgetting to breath (even though I was probably breathing fairly normally) 8o . Either way it was the most intense peak of my life and I was scared shitless because I had only taken 2 hits (and I hadn't eated any cid in about 3 or 4 years).....

I can't imagine how terrible it would be to be pumped full of anti-pyschotics during the hardest trip of your life, stuck in some hospital on the psych ward. I think being rushed around and treated like your going to die would be worse than just curling up in a ball and crying for 8 hours.
 
A couple of important issues on this topic that have yet to be addressed:

Does anyone know what the effective dosage of an anti-psychotic (specifically atypical second generation ones like Risperidone) is when needed in an emergency "psychotic break" type situation? Would the standard dose be effective or would more be needed? I know this is a complex subject, but if anyone has any experience it would be much appreciated. Considering the number of serious "bad-trips" that lead to a trip to the emergency room, I would assume there is a standard procedure for using anti-psychotics in this context (I'm aware that benzos are the first choice).

I just got eight 0.5mg Risperidone pills the other day and would like to know how many would be needed to completely stop a trip?

Another important issue issue is whether there are any possible complications from taking anti-psychotics with certain psychedelics. My guess is that with psychedelics that are known to be physically benign (LSD, mushrooms, mescaline etc) the risk is minimal (ayahuasca likely excluded), but with research chemicals the issue becomes more murky.
 
Bump because I'm curious as to the answer to the above questions. Also, how long after taking an anti-psychotic (riperidone in particular) would it again be possible to trip?
 
^Unfortunately I cannot answer either question. I was recently given seroquel for just this purpose and could not say how much I was given or why or when or how long it lasted. :)
 
Risperidone - should be OK a day or two afterwards, but if you took it to abort a psychedelic experience that became floridly psychotic I think you should give yourself a bit of time to allow the dust to settle from that experience
 
No problem with it at all. I only used MDMA nowadays and I always take a benzo for the comedown. I only use once or twice a year, usually just stick to the herb and booze at shows.
 
fryingsquirrel said:
Thanks. I just took it to go to sleep coming down off DOI.

Can you share more about your experience with Risperidone? What was the dose of DOI and risperidone? Were they M-tabs? How long did it take to kick in? Was it uncomfortable or a smooth transition? etc.

There are many reports about using benzos, but only a few using Risperidone in comparison.

What make you take this instead of a benzo if you only wanted to sleep?
 
e1evene1even said:
Can you share more about your experience with Risperidone? What was the dose of DOI and risperidone? Were they M-tabs? How long did it take to kick in? Was it uncomfortable or a smooth transition? etc.

There are many reports about using benzos, but only a few using Risperidone in comparison.

What make you take this instead of a benzo if you only wanted to sleep?
4mg generics from some internet pharmacy in India. Less than an hour, wasn't watching the clock, but quick. Just tripping along at maybe a week +2, then out like a light. Benzos show up on a UA:(

DOI dose was 4 mgs.
 
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