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Let's talk about the benefits or evils of using antipsychotics/benzos to kill a trip

C

Church

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Joined
May 3, 2004
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3,543
I've never in my life seen so many "how do I kill my trip" threads as I've seen here in the last 12 months... so I gotta ask some of you: what exactly are you taking psychedelics for, again? I mean, I've been using psychedelics now for about 15 years, and never once had to worry about stopping my trip. None of the multitudes of people I've tripped with ever concerned themselves with that sort of thing, either. So, I gotta know, for my own benefit, so I can try to make sense of it all... wtf is the point of taking psychedelics if you are so scared of them and expect it to be something you can't handle?

Just curious, because I'm of the school of thought that says if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. These aren't toys... if you take a trip, you are stuck in it, so you better learn from it. If you can't handle whatever's thrown your way, you don't deserve to be taking them.

I guess the reason why I get so uppity about hearing people incessantly worrying about how to kill a trip, is because to me, it would be the equivalent of, say, being in the middle of some traumatic event, like a bank robbery, and rather than staying alert to it all, you just take an antipsychotic and pass the fuck out so you don't have to witness the robbery.

Okay, that's a horrible analogy, but really, when OTHER traumatic events occur in real life, do you just take an antipsychotic to not have to deal with it? Why is it that people are so afraid of tripping, yet they trip anyway?

8(
 
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^ Sadly, benzo and opiate addiction is just that. (taking drugs to blunt out pain from life)

But I agree with you. Taking psychedelics when you're afraid of them is rather stupid and a waste of psychedelics, especially if you abort it.

If thats your approach, why don't you just give your psychedelics to people who will take and use them as-is? ;)
 
I think people are just worried about the trips where people have gotten naked and ran down the street chasing cop cars or whatever. The solution is to not take so much, or not take it in the first place. I have wanted to end trips before, but I was a lot more irresponsible back then.
 
Church said:
Okay, that's a horrible analogy, but really, when OTHER traumatic events occur in real life, do you just take an antipsychotic to not have to deal with it? Why is it that people are so afraid of tripping, yet they trip anyway?

8(
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I thionk alot of people hear about amazing life changing expreinces and are in search for those. But they dont realise is that that bad trip is the same thing, I for one at one point in time (never worried abouta ctualy stoping it) had no idea what it was till one day while tripping I realised that I was there the entire time and just didnt realise it. You know, it happends and it not THAT crazy, so you think there is more to it, but in this case the first time got either to crazy or you didnt know what psycheelics fully bring. but regaurdless you want to try to get there again and try to keep your cool, but I guess these people asking about stopping trips want there cake and eat it too.


I dont know, tripping is easy now, sure it has monumental properties on the expereince it produces and how/why but realy I mean, its just that. I can feel shitty sober, I can feel good sober, you can feel the same things but to a different magnitude while tripping, just feel good and its all smooth sailing. I still have difficult expereinces, but I think of when Im sober, I'll have good train of thought for some time and then wham! out of the blue I have somnething that kinda turns me down, same thing will happend when your tripping, but this time its amplified and your brain is working extra hard in the interpitation of what you experienced.
 
Church said:
I've never in my life seen so many "how do I kill my trip" threads as I've seen here in the last 12 months... so I gotta ask some of you: what exactly are you taking psychedelics for, again? I mean, I've been using psychedelics now for about 15 years, and never once had to worry about stopping my trip. None of the multitudes of people I've tripped with ever concerned themselves with that sort of thing, either. So, I gotta know, for my own benefit, so I can try to make sense of it all... wtf is the point of taking psychedelics if you are so scared of them and expect it to be something you can't handle?

Just curious, because I'm of the school of thought that says if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. These aren't toys... if you take a trip, you are stuck in it, so you better learn from it. If you can't handle whatever's thrown your way, you don't deserve to be taking them.
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Well Church, it seems that the younger generation just don't have the balls to "climb without a rope." :\

That said, after 20 years of psychedelic adventures, I just bought my first pack of Xanax, which makes me a hypocrite (but I haven't used it yet!! The rope's still in my rucksack!).
 
Church said:
I've never in my life seen so many "how do I kill my trip" threads as I've seen here in the last 12 months... so I gotta ask some of you: what exactly are you taking psychedelics for, again? I mean, I've been using psychedelics now for about 15 years, and never once had to worry about stopping my trip. None of the multitudes of people I've tripped with ever concerned themselves with that sort of thing, either. So, I gotta know, for my own benefit, so I can try to make sense of it all... wtf is the point of taking psychedelics if you are so scared of them and expect it to be something you can't handle?

Just curious, because I'm of the school of thought that says if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. These aren't toys... if you take a trip, you are stuck in it, so you better learn from it. If you can't handle whatever's thrown your way, you don't deserve to be taking them.

I guess the reason why I get so uppity about hearing people incessantly worrying about how to kill a trip, is because to me, it would be the equivalent of, say, being in the middle of some traumatic event, like a bank robbery, and rather than staying alert to it all, you just take an antipsychotic and pass the fuck out so you don't have to witness the robbery.

Okay, that's a horrible analogy, but really, when OTHER traumatic events occur in real life, do you just take an antipsychotic to not have to deal with it? Why is it that people are so afraid of tripping, yet they trip anyway?

8(
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Unforeseen circumstances can arise to seriously freak people out, eg the police or violent individuals. I personally make sure the setting is going to be 99% safe but i can understand people wanting a safety net. Or an escape route. I am considering using valium with salvia tho, to open myself to the trip even more.
 
I've never felt the need for a safety net for me, but I'm increasingly seeing the benefit of having something available for others.
My gf's sister freaked out quite badly last night and ended up being sedated at the hospital. I still maintain that we could have dealt with it but somebody else interfered while we're were on our way home and the situation went beyond our control. If we'd had something with us we could have at least calmed her down so she wouldn't have been so conspicuous in public.
 
Church, I agree with what your saying- however, I think it is prudent and 'harm-redcutionist' to have a tranquilising substance on hand, particualrly if your taking large doses of substance xxx. This may be something simple like a beer, wine, relaxing tea (skullcap tea has actually eased idfficult trips for me, though its more a distraction thing), kava (goes beautifully with a lot of psychs), or maybe into the 'pharmaceutical' realm. I think anti-psychotics are too extreme however, but benzo's or opiates could be good to have up the sleeve.

Generally, I avoid using benzos/tranqs while on the drug, but save it if I'm having trouble coming down, though I'm usually immersed in the afterglow.

At the same time, its important to confron the basic fear and determine whether there is any true danger or not- generally when your tripping, the only danger is the fear- dangerous because it feels fucking bad. But its survivable of course, otherwise most of us wouldn't be here.

Taking sedatives before trippinjg would be like doing that before getting on a rollercoaster- in other words pointless. Though, the assumption that fear is an integral part of the trip is erroneus to me; what is inegral is the not hiding of anything though.
 
I want to clarify what I was saying before... I don't mean to suggest that we shouldn't drink a beer, take a benzo, smoke a bowl, whatever it takes to be able to get some sleep after a trip is over... I was only specifically referring to to the use of antipsychotics to kill a trip right in the middle of its thunder.
 
edit: sry inappropriate term i guess. i stand behind the hero idea being a stupid one though along w the glorification of trauma as a path to wisdom. in light of real danger, mental or physical, it's just a poor outlook to be advocating.

but ... what jamshyd has added below puts the arguement in context and lends some validity to the 'anti abortion' sentiment you harbor hehe ... thx j
 
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Wtf? "Dicksizing?" For telling people that they shouldn't be tripping if they can't handle the trip? Looking back on this thread, it appears the only post hijacking it is yours above.

At least my posts have been on topic. 8)
 
Stanislav Grof (LSD psychotherapy) claims that antipsychotics should never be used to abort bad trips since they "freeze" whatever trauma happens to be going on and sublimate it into the unconscious.

Not sure how true this is. The only time I used an antipsychotic, it was to knock myself out during an episode of Amphetamine psychosis. So I guess it was legit there. Reflecting back on the episode, I find there seems to be some unresolved tangles.

Maybe grof is correct.
 
im so feelin ya church........
i just dont get it, someone PLEASE explain this shit to me? why is it that i have an associate that wants to shroom, but will never eat tehem unless i give him a benzo before hand, just in case, you know, so they can kill the trip whatever. he is going into the trip expecting bad, and so thats what he gets. bad. he expects to freak out and feel terrible, then he expects to take the benzo and chill out.
fuck people: if you dont like how psychs make you feel, then why are you using them? stop and consider.

if your having an anxiety reaction, then there is most likley a reason for it (fear, or you trying to fight off the feelings you are having. battling with yourself) the LAST thing you want to do when you are having a "bad trip" is drop a benzo and sneak your way out. what you want to do, is consider the anxiety, consider why its there, maybe you will learn something you need to change in your life, maybe not, maybe you will just learn that you need to breethe sometimes and just calm down. i dont know what it is for you, but anxiety is your bodies way of telling you you arent doing something right. either in your every day life, or jsut at that moment (freeking out over nothing. your just shrooming, sorry mayne gotta trip it out). if you face your internal demons, you will be overcome by an overpowering cleansing, spiritual experience, and most likely you will never have any fear again. if you keep trying to look at something, and then hide it, youll never see it, your just keeping yourself living in hell.

fear is the gate. once you pass through it, you never look back again. you cant theres no other way. once you learn there is nothing to fear, what can you be afraid of?
 
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Church,

I think I can answer your question about why anyone would want the safety of being able to stop a trip if they perhaps cannot handle it.

Theres alot of people out there, myself included who suffer from anxiety or similiar condition, and drugs like psychedelics can occasionally trigger a negative response. I know personally I enjoy LSD but I will never take it again as my mental state just cant handle it. I end up getting anxious, begin worrying about it, and it always ends up being a 'bad trip' .

Now my drug use is rare these days, but I still occasionally use mdma or stims. But I always have benzos available, just incase I end up getting anxious or paranoid like has happened before. I dont plan on taking any psychedelics in the future, as personally I feel they do me more harm than good. But if I were to one day use them Id definately want something like benzos or opiates to help calm me or to stop a negative experience.
 
I've only once given an antipsychotic to someone when tripping and that was because they were intent on harming themselves due to the intensity of what they were experiencing. It was inpossible to talk to them for a period required to help them due to their state of mind (and would have required physical restraint). I eventually got through to them that thioridazine (Mellarill) would substantially reduce the trip intensity and in that short window of opportunity they took them - a couple of minutes later they were accusing me of poisoning them, but 30 mins later the trip had substantially reduced in intensity. As such I don't believe that there is no place for antipsychotics in trip management as that person would have seriously injured or killed herself had the trip continued as it was and we were in no state to physically subdue her for a few hours (she was a big lass); I do believe though that a purely anxiety based negative reaction should be dealt with by talking them down - these are the majority of cases and true psychotic reactions are very rare, but anyone who's ever seen a full blown psychotic reaction cannot honestly say that there's no place for antipsychotics in trip management...
 
true true. theres anxiety attacks, then theres psychotic breaks.
and yeah i think kava is a WAAYYY better choice then benzos.,.....i once ate some of the most potent shrooms on earth AFTER we had this big kava session. didnt really plan to eat the shrooms, we were just so chillin, i was like hey!! lets all dose up on these shrooms! i ate estimated 2-4 grams panalaeous tropicalis (estimated to be around 3 to 4 X as potent as cubensis)
it was the most powerful trip id had in forever, but it was also the chillest trip i ever had. beautiful synergy and combination now that i come too think of it, and the kava didnt dull things too much cause i broke into a ++++ experience, it was great and i highly recomend it. ahem
 
Church said:
I've never in my life seen so many "how do I kill my trip" threads as I've seen here in the last 12 months... so I gotta ask some of you: what exactly are you taking psychedelics for, again? I mean, I've been using psychedelics now for about 15 years, and never once had to worry about stopping my trip. None of the multitudes of people I've tripped with ever concerned themselves with that sort of thing, either. So, I gotta know, for my own benefit, so I can try to make sense of it all... wtf is the point of taking psychedelics if you are so scared of them and expect it to be something you can't handle?

Just curious, because I'm of the school of thought that says if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. These aren't toys... if you take a trip, you are stuck in it, so you better learn from it. If you can't handle whatever's thrown your way, you don't deserve to be taking them.

I guess the reason why I get so uppity about hearing people incessantly worrying about how to kill a trip, is because to me, it would be the equivalent of, say, being in the middle of some traumatic event, like a bank robbery, and rather than staying alert to it all, you just take an antipsychotic and pass the fuck out so you don't have to witness the robbery.

Okay, that's a horrible analogy, but really, when OTHER traumatic events occur in real life, do you just take an antipsychotic to not have to deal with it? Why is it that people are so afraid of tripping, yet they trip anyway?

8(
Click to expand...

^^My thoughts exactly..
:}
 
I wish I had one when I got the trip of my life. I don't see any problem with people wanting to have a safe way out of bad trips. But I really think you should only take a stopper when its really necessary and you think it's gonna get you into some serious problems.

I myself have never stopped a trip, and probably never will.
 
I also agree with F&B, there is no need to dose someone because of an axiety attack but I have seen friends become violent in public on acid many times. I wish that we had something to give them in that situation, and anti psychotic would have been ideal.

Also to the poster suggesting cannabis please do not post advice if you have no clue what you are talking about. For the majority of people cannabis intensifies any psychedlic experience and can add an element of paranoia for many individuals. Every bad trip I have ever witnessed involved the user combining cannabis with some other psychedelic (either shorty before or during the trip).

As for alcohol, it is not the safest compound but can do wonders for an axious tripper WITHOUT VIOLENT TENDANCIES. If a person is just very frightened a few drinks of hard alcohol can help alot but I would never give it to an already enraged or agitated tripper.
 
^ That seems to me to be an argument for NOT using LSD in public, rather than for having tranquilizers available.
 
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