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Let's talk about the benefits or evils of using antipsychotics/benzos to kill a trip

^ I think "Elitist" is a little over-used here. What both sides of this discussion have, despite its disagreements, is a sense of safety and well-being in mind- They just differ on the specifics 8( . While I generally disagree with the use of benzos for this purpose, I will concede that using benzos in certain cases, such as the ones people have mentioned, is a good idea for particular individuals in specific circumstances.

In my experience, living in a college town, I see a lot of stupid, irresponsible use of a plethora of different drugs, for a lot of dumb reasons (or no reason at all). Since the prevailing attitude amongst these morons is "more drugs=better" in a rather black and white sense, no matter what occasion or the combination, you get a lot of people who just make uninformed decisions...thats really tantamount to what i have to say: Know what the fuck you are doing before you do it.
 
Smokingfrog, I can really respect you for this. The fact that you realize that although you would disagree, you acknowledge that there are times when it should be done. Btw, I do have to disagree that elitist is overused. In this case, it is really elitists who are protesting so much.
 
Why have sedatives on hand?

I've noticed that on these boards, so many people always talk about having sedatives on hand for a trip. But I would NEVER consider doing this. To me, it defies the entire purpose of a trip.

Psychedelic drugs are a challenge, and a journey. The point of taking them isn't necessarily to feel great or have a fantastic, fun, time (there's things like MDMA for that!). I think that psychedelic drugs are all about overcoming hurdles and emerging on top. I haven't ever had a bad trip, so I can't speak from experience, but from what i've heard I think that bad or difficult trips are a process of overcoming really important emotional obstacles. I've heard that the more difficult trips are often the ones you learn more from.

Simply aborting a trip with sedatives seems like a such a silly thing to do. Then, the person having a bad trip will simply have a bad idea about the drug- they will think that the drug is just scary, or whatever, and probably never try it again. If they work through the trip and ride it out, chances are they'll overcome their obstacle and come out feeling absolutely fantastic. Then they will know that the bad trip had a purpose and it was good, and it wasn't just some scary, horrible drug.

If you are only prepared to go in to a trip knowing that you can end it the second something goes wrong... i think then the person isn't ready for psychedelic drugs.

Anybody agree with me? or disagree?
 
I'm with you in spirit, but I still keep some diazepam on hand in case anyone I'm with flips the heck out and is doing damage to themselves psychologically by staying in the psychedelic state.

Hard trips are one thing, they can be worked through with help from your friends, but panic attacks are very scary and should not be confronted with an attitude that forces the person to 'confront' something subconscious thats probably not there (these types of attacks are usually very brute causal and sometimes have to do even with the very fundamental pharmacological actions of the chemical).

Peace and stay safe,
S_S
 
insanit_e said:
I haven't ever had a bad trip, so I can't speak from experience,
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There is your answer.

A bad trip is not an experience that is merely difficult to intgrate. A bad trip is losing it to the point where whatever you are dealing with consumes you and the outcome is usually a psychotic episode.

F&B has given this example several times, but some people dealing with bad trips can actually become dangers to themselves or others.

As S_S mentioned... these are drugs, after all. Some of the adverse reactions to them are due to their innate pharmacological workings, and not with any troubles you are dealing with.

Sedatives definitely have a place when taking psychedelics.
 
psychedelics can bring you to the doors of heaven or the gates of hell, you, your self can unlook those door and find your self in your own hell. It is then that benzos can work there magic. Plus taking benzos prior to high dose trips can be fun, if you got supply, why not use it?


different strokes for different folks.
 
according to Stanislav Grof that is a very bad idea, because it is essential during a bad trip that all the revealed unconscious material is thoroughly worked through and integrated, terminating the trip early artificially prevents this process from being completed, as long as the tripper isnt at risk of causing real harm, the trip should not be terminated
 
I think that psychedelic drugs are all about overcoming hurdles and emerging on top. I haven't ever had a bad trip, so I can't speak from experience, but from what i've heard I think that bad or difficult trips are a process of overcoming really important emotional obstacles. I've heard that the more difficult trips are often the ones you learn more from.
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I think the difficulties arise because different people interpret 'bad trip' differently. What some poeople call a bad trip, I'd call a challenging one & they do not require aborting, but working through for your own good. In my books, a bad trip is a florid psychotic episode brought on by the psychedelic drug & I think it's foolish and possibly dangerous not to intervene pharmacologically in such cases.


Since the prevailing attitude amongst these morons is "more drugs=better" in a rather black and white sense, no matter what occasion or the combination, you get a lot of people who just make uninformed decisions...thats really tantamount to what i have to say: Know what the fuck you are doing before you do it.
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Couldn't agree more
 
max_freakout said:
according to Stanislav Grof that is a very bad idea, because it is essential during a bad trip that all the revealed unconscious material is thoroughly worked through and integrated, terminating the trip early artificially prevents this process from being completed, as long as the tripper isnt at risk of causing real harm, the trip should not be terminated
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As much as I agree, I can't see much reason for re-experiencing horrific events that fucked you up the first time you experienced. I believe that negative occurrences from the past should be worked through, but not on a high dose of LSD. I had some difficulties in my childhood that I had to work through soberly, because the psychedelic state is so different to sobriety that it seems what you learn there, applies there. This reality is different and requires a different approach. However, working throuhg spiritual and existential fear which I think is almost the worst fear) is something that can be thoughlrly achieved with psychedelics . I prefer smoked DMT for the short duration and seeming lack of tolerance even when repeating multiple times daily-though I would never extend this over more then two to three days.

And as youkai said, sometimes having your senses smeared via a psychedelic is not only therapeutic, but absolutely great, SAFE, fun- and when I've desired that, its been fun to simply get messy with benzo's, speed, alchohol and (usually) LSD. All in careful doses- I don't want to blackout or lose control, but simply lose my mind gently for a while. Its a great relief.:)
 
max_freakout said:
according to Stanislav Grof that is a very bad idea, because it is essential during a bad trip that all the revealed unconscious material is thoroughly worked through and integrated, terminating the trip early artificially prevents this process from being completed, as long as the tripper isnt at risk of causing real harm, the trip should not be terminated
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I cannot stress enough that Grof here was referring to Antipsychotics, not benzos.

These are two very, very different ways in dealing with difficult trip. The antipsychotics kill a trip, thereby "freezing" the trauma (as grof argues). Benzos simply lower the anxiety, which may be just what one needs to deal with difficulties.

That, and the fact that he was referring to people in psychedelic therapy, ie. accompanied with a therapist who helps them overcome their problems.

Since the majority of people who take psychedelics today do so without medical supervision, it is safe to say that having tranquilizers at hand is a very good idea.
 
That, and the fact that he was referring to people in psychedelic therapy, ie. accompanied with a therapist who helps them overcome their problems.
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That is a totally different ball game, so as Jamshyd has pointed out, people using psychedelics in a non-clinical setting very rarely have a trained psychotherapist to hand. Without one present, I'll repeat like a parrot on speed,"psychotic breaks in people using psychedelics should be terminated with an antipsychotic if there are any to hand". This is not applicable if they are just having bouts of anxiety
 
I have never cancelled a trip, and only began to consider the notion upon frequenting bluelight and seeing so many people talk about it. I've got a fair bit of experience under my belt, and for the most part, I'm capable of handling what is thrown at me, regardless of what that may be.

with that said, I keep seroquel on hand just in case it turns out I was wrong. A bad trip to me is an incomprehensible trip; one that simply negates the possibility of my being lucid or having a worthwhile time. I don't consider challenging trips and bad trips to be synonymous: I can handle my challenging trips as long as they pertain to me and are not simply arbitrary torments to the senses or to the soul. I've never had a trip go that route, but I'm leaving room for the possibility.

another thing about keeping seroquel nearby is that it has the capacity to boost my confidence, knowing I have a safety net, particularly when diving head-first into uncharted territory. Let's say I were to sniff 200mg of DPT for example. I think I damn well would need about every reassurance I could get my fucking hands on to make it through that experience intact, y'know? Being in the mood is one thing, stilling your mind is another, but the fact is, if I know I've got the chance to back out at any given moment, it will help. It will help invoke a mindstate I'm less likely to wanna back out of. And that is the goal.

my two cents.
 
Psyche is as psyche does. Each trip is each trippers own.

I chuckle at the idea of a freaked out little chickadee wanting to stop a `bad trip` because it's too much. Just like the little kiddees on a roller coaster too big for them.

Tripping isn't entertainment. It is self learning and growth. The scary is the truth about you. Can you accept it?
 
^If a kid falls off a roller coaster, then they damn WILL stop the roller coaster.

Tripping is learning and growth, until it goes out of control and becomes irrational harm to self and others. Psychedelics are drugs, and like all other drugs, they can cause toxicity and have an antidote. Can you accept that?
 
anyone who systematically uses anxiety-lowering drugs to ease their way through or out of trips will not learn much from their trips and might even reinforce their fear responses in the long run.

it is nevertheless wise to have such drugs on hand just in case whatever one is experiencing at any given time seems to persist for seemingly unbearable lengths of time or at a seemingly unbearable intensity - simply because we are indeed dealing with drugs that have pharmacological effects for which a pharmacological answer might be more appropriate than a working-through. but no way ought they to be used as a regular coping mechanism for trips, let alone for difficult life situations regardless of any drug use.

i prefer not to use them but i do have a small stash just in case. i very very rarely make use of it.
 
Jamshyd said:
^If a kid falls off a roller coaster, then they damn WILL stop the roller coaster.

Tripping is learning and growth, until it goes out of control and becomes irrational harm to self and others. Psychedelics are drugs, and like all other drugs, they can cause toxicity and have an antidote. Can you accept that?
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NO! I can't accept that. Because if that dumbass jumps right on an experience above their head decides he doesn't need to listen to height requirements or use the full body harness on the ride as prescribed by thousands of riders before them... than said dumbass kiddee deserves to be removed from the gene pool.

Inform yourself before ingesting yourself. As simple as can be stated. <3
 
than said dumbass kiddee deserves to be removed from the gene pool
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I like the way you use a loveheart after making such a harsh comment. Read the thread and you'll understand why an idea like yours, with its black and white statements, is very foolhardy.
 
JayJohnson said:
NO! I can't accept that. Because if that dumbass jumps right on an experience above their head decides he doesn't need to listen to height requirements or use the full body harness on the ride as prescribed by thousands of riders before them... than said dumbass kiddee deserves to be removed from the gene pool.

Inform yourself before ingesting yourself. As simple as can be stated. <3
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You can read uip all you want about psychedelics, but a psychotic break can still occur when using them. In those circumstances it will do much more harm to let the trip play out rather than terminate it with an antipsychotic.

There's little to be learned from such psychotic breaks, other than remember to have an antipsychotic to hand if several people are going to trip
 
/\ is a benzo not going to be of much help in case of a psychotic break? Is a true antipsychotic such as Risperdal the only way out?
 
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