Let's talk about the benefits or evils of using antipsychotics/benzos to kill a trip

[PsyGhost]

Don't take the drug if you can't handle it. LSD (or any pyshcedelic) isnt supposed to be like drinking a beer. Respect it.

 

[swilow]

^But how can you know whats going to happen, and whether you'll be able to handle it? Theres a HUGE difference between being frightened, fearing for sanity, ie. panicking, and being completely psychotic. In that instance, its not about handling it- but about making it stop as fast as possible. I've never encountered full-fledged psychosis with psychedelics (though people attempting to interact in the k state has always made me think of that), I've tripped with people who became increasingly delusional and acting out- this type of thing can be talked down usually with some calm reasoning and distracting, but these times I've really been aware that the borderline between psychedelic braindistortion and psychosis was very close. And knowing that, I would definitely try to prevent it going further.

 

[Xorkoth]

In my opinion, a trip should only be aborted if the person has gotten into a dangerous situation. For example, if they've gone totally psychotic and are wielding weapons, or trying to hurt themselves, or if they've totally lost all contact with themselves and the world, then aborting the trip has become a matter of physical safety.

However, if a person is just having a horrifying trip, but they're not in physical danger, then in my experience it is definitely better for that person to ride it out. The thing about "bad trips" is that the "badness" is there for a reason. As long as the tripper is conscious of what is going on, that horror is going to teach them something about themselves. Every horror trip I've been on has ended well. Once the peak wears off and you begin to return to normality, the weight of the world is lifted, and you end the trip on a positive note, happy to return to reality, mind reeling with what has just happened. Then a period of sober reflection occurs, and the person emerges better and more understanding of how to fix whatever it is in them that caused the horrifying trip.

If, on the other hand, you're having a horrifying trip and load up on benzos or alcohol or whatever to abort it, then you're left with the negative, horrifying, semi-psychotic impression of the trip gone bad, but there's no natural transition into that introspective mindstate that you get upon re-emergence into reality. So all you're left with is this lingering horror that was never resolved. And it's likely that it will come back to haunt you, at least subconsciously.

So in short, aborting a trip should be done for physical safety reasons only, IMO. A trip has a way of working itself out, if you let it. And like all difficult experiences, if you face it, it will make you stronger and wiser.

 

[squerll]

I think it is a very bad idea to abort a trip. When you are having a bad time on a trip you are dealing with repressed personal issues that have surfaced if you deal with it will resolve and you will be fee of it forever. If you kill the trip you bury the issues under a rug. The issue is surfaced and there until you deal with them again and again for the rest of your existence it will haunt you and affect you until you die
I have never heard of people carrying around benzos and valiums for emergency trip abort until I started reading stuff on this site. I think if someone questions a trip like that don’t do it or do ½. I think it is part of the whole pharmaceutical mindset “There is a pill for everything” “if something’s wrong just take a pill”
I guess you can take a pill and pretend it’s not there, but it is.
Like the Indians say if you go there their might be bad sprits you most overcome them if you don’t the will posses you for the rest of your time on this earth.

 

[PsyGhost]

^But how can you know whats going to happen, and whether you'll be able to handle it? Theres a HUGE difference between being frightened, fearing for sanity, ie. panicking, and being completely psychotic. In that instance, its not about handling it- but about making it stop as fast as possible. I've never encountered full-fledged psychosis with psychedelics (though people attempting to interact in the k state has always made me think of that), I've tripped with people who became increasingly delusional and acting out- this type of thing can be talked down usually with some calm reasoning and distracting, but these times I've really been aware that the borderline between psychedelic braindistortion and psychosis was very close. And knowing that, I would definitely try to prevent it going further.

Well, you cant predict what will happen, that is the nature of the psychedelic mysteries. Still, no trip should be aborted. It would seem sensible to try and bring someone back who has gone psychotic and may be do harm to themselves or others, but it would have to be an extreme case.

Set and setting should be enough, no need for pharmacological change to bring someone back. I know more than once changing my location has completely turned a trip back towards the good side. If there are other psychonauts with someone who is tripping badly, then it is their duty to navigate the person back. There is too much peace and love in these chemicals, don't jump overboard just because things aren't what you expect.

Meditation, singing, chanting, etc. Many things you can do besides take the cowardly way out! Of course, these things are easier said than done.

 

[swilow]

^^^Cowardly way out? When did taking psychedelic become a way of measuring your manhood? Its certainly not cowardly to want to escape an unpleasant situation; in fact, its completely sane to want to. We are wired to avoid pain. I think its completely false to say "no trip should be aborted"- what would you do if your bestfriend/partner was absolutely losing it, and was attempting to kill themselves with a knife? Chant hare krishna? Your still mixing up panic/fear with psychosis- very very different. I don't think reason works with psychotics, thus the great stigma upon random psychoses in our society...

Changing location is good if you are getting the weird vibes from things- but theres been times when hallucinations were so thick I don't think location had much impact on me.

I hope no-one believe that they would be a coward if they can't handle a trip, its just not true.

 

[Zagenth]

Ever hear the phrase: "Buy the ticket, take the ride."? You bought the ticket, deal with the ride. They don't stop rollercoasters in the middle of the ride just cause someone can't handle it, you have to ride it out. The only exception I can see, which many people above me in this thread have posted, is that when someone seriously becomes a physical danger to themselves or others. If someone is seriously ready to jump off a bridge, then yes, when talking doesn't work, use some pills. Some people just can't handle the psychedelic experience, and they shouldn't undertake it. It's not that I'm elitist or anything, but some people just shouldn't get on certain rides. Nothing against those people, they just can't deal with it. Doesn't make them less of a person, just means that psychs aren't their cup of tea. Just like people that don't like opiates or uppers or cannabis. People that don't like rollercoasters don't get on them, no one thinks less of them. Same should be with psychs. Just my 2 cents.

 

[burn out]

I think it is a very bad idea to abort a trip. When you are having a bad time on a trip you are dealing with repressed personal issues that have surfaced if you deal with it will resolve and you will be fee of it forever.

lol, yehh right. i've never aborted a trip no matter how bad i got. i am in no way free of the repressed personal issues that surfaced.

 

[botaanik]

I saw once a documental movie about Woodstock(3 series). And one of thees series there talked a women about people overdosing lsd and so on. They made special medical dents(I don't know if I writed it correctly). Their quote was "NO Anti-Psychodics or benzos!!!!! They said, person have to ride their trip out and so was thees dents greated, where persons in state of sanity,psychodic and so can lay down and there was special persons who talked to them and tried to calm them down. And do you want to know what the end result was, persons trip took another turn to the way of better. So talking and setting are very important.

 

[swilow]

All said, for recreations sake, tripping and opiates is actually immense fun

 

[squerll]

lol, yehh right. i've never aborted a trip no matter how bad i got. i am in no way free of the repressed personal issues that surfaced.

I should of said “I have always had resolution and been freed of issues” “You” is a bad word with psychedelic experiences it’s a personal experience. Sorry.

 

[luckytaak]

I think its completely false to say "no trip should be aborted"- what would you do if your bestfriend/partner was absolutely losing it, and was attempting to kill themselves with a knife?

That is a good question…. What do you do?… I’m not doubting you can handle tranquilizing that situation at all, I just wondering what your restraining and administration tactics are? Do you take the knife with fighting tactics and tackle him and force it down his throat like a dog? Or get him down and your sidekick tobala yanks his drawers down and rectally administers it?
Like I said I’m not doubting at all you can accomplish this….. I just want to know how….?

 

[demons]

Another nuance to this issue is the fact that the benzo's and antipsychotics take about a half an hour to kick in. If a freaking out person has become so agitated that you cannot communicate with them to suggest a change of setting, change of music, change of subject to think about etc. then you're not going to be able to say "Hey try taking this pill." in this case what you'd have to do is physically hold the person down and force the pill down his throat like ^ he said. i suppose in the situation where the agitated person is a threat to himself you would need to be physically restraining them anyway. personally if i were in such a situation, after disarming and forcibly immobilising the person i would try to talk to them and get them to calm down. if that didn't work then i would be forced to either give them an abortive drug and restrain them until it kicked in, or not give an abortive drug and restrain them until the psychedelic wore off on its own.

but let's be realistic here... who ever actually grabs a knife and starts trying to commit suicide on a psychedelic? i know we've all heard this a million times and that's why the discussion is proceeding as if it's a realistic scenario, but if people look at their own experience they will see how unlikely such a sequence of events is, if their experience bears any similarity to mine at least. yes people have bad trips or get scared or anxious on psychedelics, but who's ever actually witnessed a "Psychotic Break?" Sounds like the shit you see from the media and the government about psychedelics. In my experience every last one of the people i've ever seen freaking out violently, threatening people/himself, or being generally loud irrational and belligerent, the person was DRUNK, not tripping. All the people I've seen get agitated on psychedelics evince fear, not aggression. I'm not saying it's never ever happened, but i venture the opinion it's about as likely as being struck by lightning or eaten by a shark, and i am saying, like with sharks, lies and fearmongering by the media make people think it's a significant danger.

 

[swilow]

That is a good question…. What do you do?… I’m not doubting you can handle tranquilizing that situation at all, I just wondering what your restraining and administration tactics are? Do you take the knife with fighting tactics and tackle him and force it down his throat like a dog? Or get him down and your sidekick tobala yanks his drawers down and rectally administers it?
Like I said I’m not doubting at all you can accomplish this….. I just want to know how….?

First I tell the person to fuck off. Then I edit their post and warn them...

 

[Sandbag]

I also think most people over-use the term 'bad trip', and use it to simply describe trips which may not be all pretty visuals and laughter, and any time the trip starts to go south / introspective or digging up issues that they don't want to face - they try and fight it, and start sending themselves into a loop, and then go reaching for their pills to abort the loop.

I agree with this. I've had trips of a negative nature before...but I don't like calling them 'bad trips'. I personally have never taken an antipsychotic to abort a trip despite the fact that I have a valid seroquel script. There was one incident in which I would have aborted if I would've had my seroquel with me. I insuffulated 30mg of 2C-B, blacked out, then woke up dry-heaving into a kitchen sink. Didn't know who's house I was in, what part of town I was in, or how I had gotten there and the fact that I had visuals so thick I couldn't see my own hands or feet didn't help the situation.

I ended up crawling to the couch to watch the sun rise. On that couch I slipped into a semi-out of body state (kept drifting out only to suddenly regain conciousness) where I 'died' (I swear I put my fingers into the bullet-wound in the side of my head), spoke to both God and Satan and passed through the gates of both heaven and hell somewhere along the way, and then finally after 4hrs of face-melting horrors I realized that I was not injured...although snorting the 2C-B felt like I had been punched in the face for a good 48hrs afterwards.

 

[otb01]

Sorry for suddenly budding in but I believe that the use of drugs such as Risperidone/Risperdal to terminate a trip in the right hands is a good thing. Look at the following situations:

1. Accidental Overdose: I've heard multiple stories of people accidentally taking very very high doses of a phen or trypt and drugs like these saving them from what could have been horrific.
2. Needing to fit requirements of daily life: Many people need to work or visit family members. It's hard to be way up in the sky with DOC and be talking to grandma. This is especially helpful with substances with amazing effects which can not be experienced due to the unrealistic duration.
3. BAD TRIPS: No matter how many of you say that bad trips are a part of tripping and should be embraced there is NO REASON why anyone who is NOT READY for a bad trip which could PERMANENTLY DAMAGE THEM should NEED to experience them!

By the way, this is my first post. I have spent a lot of time on the psychedelics section of hipforums and decided I should also spend some time here. While I love the nice community at hipforums, its not nearly as active as the bluelight. I hope I have a nice time here =)

 

[ranunky]

When you're tripping you're not thinking straight, I had a bad trip on the mushies a few days ago, an inner feeling of the worst depression i have ever felt, I was crying my eyes out, I took a few xanax but it didn't really help, it stopped the crying but I actually started to feel worse inside, I was so depressed i couldn't move. I would have liked to have ended that one quicker.

If something comes up while you're tripping, you don't have to deal with it while you can't think straight, in fact if you're on a bad one, it's probably the worst time to try and work it out, you could end up killing yourself. Best thing to do would be to take some benzos and a mild dose of some opiates to stop you worrying, go to sleep and work through whatever came up when you're sober.

Welcome to bluelight otb01!

 

[LuGoJ]

I used to trip a lot when i was younger and I had a string of 4 really bad trips in a row, I just perceived it to mean that my body was telling me to take a break. Not once did I wish i had a way out though, even though they were horrible I still learned from the experience. At the time I believed that there was a reason I was going through it and i still believe that.

 

[SmokingFrog84]

^^ excellent point.

A buddy of mine and I have been discussing this trend for a while and have also been quite irked by it.

If you aren't confident enough to trip without that benzo on hand then its the wrong time to be tripping.

Or maybe tripping is not for you.

There are other ways to acheive altered states, even psychedelic ones. Meditation works wonders, if you have the wherewithal to give it the right dedication.

And just b/c you don't consider something recreational drug doesnt mean you are elitist. Have some respect for both yourself and what you are putting into your goddamn body.

Yes psychedelics are fun as hell, but they are NOT tools for escapists who are seeking pleasure as a relief from pain, or even just the daily grind. They ask a lot from you, and require your full attention and participation.

rambling ends....here.

 

[otb01]

With the exception of ranunky you guys basically ignored everything that I said. There are indeed situations where aborting a trip is necessary. Accidental overdose, which is diminishable with a dose of risperidone, can cause severe damage if it is not diminished. Some people can be on a trip and need to get down because they have requirements in their daily life. Not everyone can trip all day on a Saturday. And most of all, like ranunky mentioned, you can actually get trips so bad that you can kill yourself. There is no reason why you shouldn't abort a trip like that.

I'm honestly sick of so many elitists who get up on their high horses thinking that their gas must smell so great and talk about how if you aren't ready for a bad trip then you can't be ready for psychedelics like it's some kind of secretive elite club. Get over your ego. There are situations where trips genuinely need to be stopped. Yes, some bad trips are great learning experiences but some bad trips are genuinely and severely damaging and that is not something that someone should have to live through because some elitist asshole decided that stopping a trip is just waaaaaay too passe and waaay not cool because of whatever self serving bullshit they want to spew.

If you want to stop your trip then all the power to you, especially if that trip could possibly damage you.