Ketamine Isomer Differencies?

[dopamimetic]

I've ordered ketamine from two vendors. Advertised as being 95+% / 97+% pure resp., tested Ketamine - I know this is probably just marketing bullshit and nobody can identify a powder over the net.. Maybe I'll take this to finally buy some (heavily overpriced, cause chemicals are rigidly regulated around here) Marquis etc. reagent, but for now let me say that KetA, crystalline, had effects that were at one side familiar, yet cold and underwhelming. The other, KetB, powder is slightly local anaesthetic (yet far away from how lidocaine etc. laced fake-cocaine is) and fantastically warm, mellow, even a bit psychedelic. Unexpected. I was just about to write K off.

Is it possible that it's S vs. R-Ketamine?

 

[Xorkoth]

The two isomers are drastically different. Racemic ketamine and pure S-isomer are what you tend to find, and the two are quite different. It certainly could be that.

 

[Hodor]

There is a huge black market for ketamine in China, with clandestine labs all over the countryside, but I sort of doubt these are actually going through the trouble of making actual S-ketamine.

Unless you have real pharma Ketanest S or a similar product, I would be skeptical about the identity of anything being sold as "S-ketamine" on the net. Remember that there's a lot of analogues of ketamine analogues out there (ex.: Deschloroketamine/DCK, 2-Fluoro-Ketamine/2F-DCK, O-PCE, 3-HO-PCE...) that could be misrepresented as ketamine... granted, some of these could be ruled out if their duration of action is much longer than ket's.

And of course there might be cuts, and there's the variability of the drug itself.

 

[dopamimetic]

You're right, it's just that I've know and tried most of the more common and abundant arylcyclohexylamines and while there's always some space for placebo / tolerance / individual response left, I think to be able to identify at least what's not what.

What's strange is that the majority of the ketamine out there I don't really like, it's that cold clinical one like sample A, so I'm pretty sure this was ketamine. Just not which one. Sample B is what I love and always am after, I've nearly been convinced that it's just tolerance that makes the magic go away but by having two chemicals here, equally potent, equally easy to snort, roughly equal duration etc. yeah I should have them analyzed, I just don't know where and who's able to reliably and precisely identify chemicals which might be isomers or closely related variants, when even police lab analysis tends to fail (had this myself, case dropped cause of analysis error and this was a whole two carbon mistake)..

At least it was not one of the analogs you've mentioned, I know them all. 2F-DCK might come closest but very remotely. The best bet would be R-Ketamine, some people say this is available too, but also the explanation about isomer separation being too expensive/difficult etc. sounds reasonable..

Only remarkable thing was that the good sample had some local anesthetic qualities not unlike what I'd think pure, unadultered coke must be like but it for sure was not coke and also not a mixture, wouldn't make sense economically and I dislike the effects of cocaine.. did have a bad hangover too, yet one I know from over-doing it on good arylcyclohexylamine dissociatives..

 

[ungelesene_bettlek]

S-ketamine has about double the potency of racemic ketamine, but otherwise its effect are completely similar to me (the blahblah that S-ketamine is "less psychedelic" or has "less side effects of bad dreams" was propaganda made by the pharma concerns because of an effect called "evergreening"). Therefore I assume that R-ketamine has little or no effects.

 

[dopamimetic]

The two isomers are drastically different.

but otherwise its effect are completely similar to me (...) Therefore I assume that R-ketamine has little or no effects.

Responses varying greatly from individual to individual, I guess it must be. Maybe for some the receptors or part of them are stereoselective, and for others they are not or something like that?

Shadowmeister, could you describe the differences you experienced in a few words?

 

[Xorkoth]

I haven't tried s-isomer ketamine but there has been a lot of talk about it on here. People had varying differences. I do believe the s isomer is the one that is largely responsible for the psychoactivity, whereas the R isomer may be more physical? Again though, having not tried it myself I am only relating secondhand anecdotes that have formed my opinion.

 

[Bitchniggaz]

I know exactly what you mean and so do most of my friends.
Whereas most brands of K is slightly different there are 2 major ends of the spectrum.
Warm and fluffy or cold and sterile.

I once had 3 different batches of ket at the same time.
Long crystals, powder and round crystals..
They all had their own different high..

I did acid a few times where i really tried different combos of the different piles of powder.
Was very fun since every hole had slightly different ratios of the keis.

 

[G_Chem]

S-Ketamine is indeed more potent but I prefer racemic product. Lately I've been able to do a lot of "side by side" testing so to speak..

S-Ketamine was what I became familiar with as Ketamine in the beginning only rarely trying racemic. S-Ketamine is much more potent (maybe even over double..) but it's sedating, and non-sexual. All I wanna do is lay down and drift off into it, I never could understand how people danced on the stuff.

Once I started to try more racemic I saw how.. Racemic is less potent but more than makes up for it in that I can actually function on it. Sex is great on racemic and often I'm full of laughter and jokes. Music is much better than S and dancing is great too

The only thing that S beats racemic on for me is potency and a somewhat better afterglow, also it could be argued it's less compulsory than racemic.

I like em both personally and try to have both aroundcat all times. Racemic for more social/active moments, S-K for end of the night inward travels. Also keep in mind, I prefer low doses to high doses which may effect my opinion.

One thing I've noticed is that ALL racemic has been big crystalline chunks, all S-Ketamine has been small needle like crystals.

-GC

 

[Dr Mamba]

You know what R and S mean, its the way it turn polirezed light.
racemic is 50% each, so it dont turn polirized light.
Just buy a pair of solar glasses, put water in a transparent vial.
In front of the vial, put one glass, behind the vial put the other glass turned at a 90 degres.
If you put a light behind that, there should be no ( not much) light passing through.
If you dissolve racemic same.
If you dissolve R or S some more light pass.
Aggree S come in small needle power, for me S and racemic are olmost equipotent, I prefere racemic, its like more "wild".

 

[Viraldrome]

This thread provided everything I wanted to know. I have some nice long crystal (S) below and I can get (R) I', going to try some pure (R) before mixing them up to make my own racemic. I will be sure to post side by side crystal pics too. As far I can tell tell I only ever did (S) based on appearance, I have never had get up and dance ketamine, so I am curious

 

[G_Chem]

So I just tried pure R isomer recently, I will be posting a thread about it later tonight or this weekend so if interested check it out.

I will say R isomer is like cocaine and ketamine had a baby. It’s much weaker than S-K but zero sedation, very good for dancing.

That said, after a few hours I felt it lacking and soon as I did a bump of S-K I felt like I landed into the perfect experience very closely resembling racemic for obvious reasons.

Comedown is a bitch tho too, very moody which I don’t get at all with S-K and only when I do large amounts of racemic.

All in all worth trying but I prefer racemic or S-K honestly, more to be posted soon.

-GC

 

[Viraldrome]

Did you write that thread G?

I got my (R) its looks different than any other K I ever saw in my life. Reddit all freak out on you and lecture you about its not available and its all a sales pitch. I'm sending it in for testing Mass Spec FTIR but they cant tell me what isomer, or least none of thier posted K test results mention isomer so i assume it isnt a testable thing? So it looks different, it's K and it it has different effects (assuming on last two, for now) is the best I can do to convince people I guess. Someone said I should blind test, I'm down with that, is that drip going to taste the same though? I'm thinking about messing around with ratios on my own racemic. The lab results will be later this week and my own testing in a week or two, I'm being very careful not to overindulge
(S) left and (R) right

 

[someguyontheinternet]

There is a way to test it using polarized light

plane polarised light

Gives a simple explanation of plane polarised light and the effect optical isomers have on it.

www.chemguide.co.uk

 

[Delsyd]

Did you write that thread G?

I got my (R) its looks different than any other K I ever saw in my life. Reddit all freak out on you and lecture you about its not available and its all a sales pitch. I'm sending it in for testing Mass Spec FTIR but they cant tell me what isomer, or least none of thier posted K test results mention isomer so i assume it isnt a testable thing? So it looks different, it's K and it it has different effects (assuming on last two, for now) is the best I can do to convince people I guess. Someone said I should blind test, I'm down with that, is that drip going to taste the same though? I'm thinking about messing around with ratios on my own racemic. The lab results will be later this week and my own testing in a week or two, I'm being very careful not to overindulge
(S) left and (R) right

This has been my experience with the 2 isomers. S is needle like crystals. R is rock.
I’m not sure if the R I had was straight R or Racemic but it was a chunk like your picture.

 

[BuprenorphineBrian]

This has been my experience with the 2 isomers. S is needle like crystals. R is rock.
I’m not sure if the R I had was straight R or Racemic but it was a chunk like your picture.

Did you write that thread G?

I got my (R) its looks different than any other K I ever saw in my life. Reddit all freak out on you and lecture you about its not available and its all a sales pitch. I'm sending it in for testing Mass Spec FTIR but they cant tell me what isomer, or least none of thier posted K test results mention isomer so i assume it isnt a testable thing? So it looks different, it's K and it it has different effects (assuming on last two, for now) is the best I can do to convince people I guess. Someone said I should blind test, I'm down with that, is that drip going to taste the same though? I'm thinking about messing around with ratios on my own racemic. The lab results will be later this week and my own testing in a week or two, I'm being very careful not to overindulge
(S) left and (R) right

THATS exactly how R-Ketamine (arketamine) looks. A big rock on the right. The S is shards. In Canada. I find it annoying as I make my own racemic and end up paying more.

 

[Viraldrome]

There is a way to test it using polarized light

plane polarised light

Gives a simple explanation of plane polarised light and the effect optical isomers have on it.

www.chemguide.co.uk

Thats going to be something out of my price range sadly, which today is 1 dollar for stamps to mail in sample. I'm only getting it FTIR tested because its free service in canada with current of opioid epidemic.

I have to accept its going to be subjective judging of effects, i can prove this isnt some RC but that's about it. Any sort of sexy dancing Ketamine is something i have never experienced, if these reports are accurate, so i should be able to tell them apart blind easily. I'll do my best, for science.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Courtesy of chatgpt, this method should work to give a rough idea. This should at least tell you the differences between two different samples and if one is a racemate or not

Producing polarized light at home and testing whether a chemical is R or S (its optical isomerism) can be done relatively inexpensively with a few materials. Here’s a simple method you can use:

### Materials Needed:
1. **LCD Screen**: A polarized light source can be created using an LCD screen, such as that of a smartphone, computer monitor, or tablet.
2. **Polarizing Filters**: You can obtain polarizing filters from old polarized sunglasses or purchase inexpensive ones online.
3. **Glass or Plastic Container**: A small clear container to hold the chemical solution.
4. **Chemical Sample**: The substance you want to test.
5. **Solvent**: Typically, ethanol or water to dissolve the chemical.

### Procedure:
1. **Prepare the Chemical Solution**: Dissolve the chemical you want to test in the solvent and place it in the clear container.
2. **Set Up the Polarized Light Source**: Turn on the LCD screen. The light emitted from the LCD screen is already polarized.
3. **Place the Container in Front of the Screen**: Position the container with the chemical solution in front of the LCD screen.
4. **Use Polarizing Filters**: Hold a polarizing filter between your eye and the container. Rotate the filter slowly while observing the light passing through the container.
5. **Observe Changes**: As you rotate the polarizing filter, observe any changes in the intensity of the light passing through the solution. An optically active substance will rotate the plane of polarization, causing the light intensity to change as you rotate the filter.

### Testing for R or S Configuration:
Determining the absolute configuration (R or S) of a chiral compound through polarimetry (measuring optical rotation) requires more specific instrumentation and procedures, usually beyond simple home setups. However, you can get an idea of optical activity (whether it is chiral and rotates light) using the above method.

### Notes:
- **Calibration**: To determine the specific rotation, you’d need a more precise setup, including a calibrated polarimeter.
- **Safety**: Ensure the chemical substances and solvents you use are handled safely, using appropriate personal protective equipment (PPE).

This method provides a simple way to observe optical activity but doesn't give the exact R or S configuration without further analytical methods.

 

[G_Chem]

Did you write that thread G?

I got my (R) its looks different than any other K I ever saw in my life. Reddit all freak out on you and lecture you about its not available and its all a sales pitch. I'm sending it in for testing Mass Spec FTIR but they cant tell me what isomer, or least none of thier posted K test results mention isomer so i assume it isnt a testable thing? So it looks different, it's K and it it has different effects (assuming on last two, for now) is the best I can do to convince people I guess. Someone said I should blind test, I'm down with that, is that drip going to taste the same though? I'm thinking about messing around with ratios on my own racemic. The lab results will be later this week and my own testing in a week or two, I'm being very careful not to overindulge
(S) left and (R) right

I didn’t but I’ll just post the additional info here. I’ll write up a more detailed report when I try it again.

So my R Ketamine was the tiny needles much like S-K although there was a slight difference. This makes sense to me as you would assume a similar crystal structure between the two optical isomers, just in reverse.

All the racemic I’ve done has been big chunks, the purest of which would crunch down into more blocky shaped crystals.

When I first saw it I was as always skeptical, but the guy selling is reliable and I figured worse case scenario I just bought more S-K. Did a bump my normal S-K size and it didn’t really touch the sides but the taste, smell, feel was all identical.

Then proceeded to do a bump maybe x3 the normal S-K amount and started to get a sense for it. What stood out was the lack of sedation, having done plenty of racemic I could instantly discern what was caused by S vs R.

Me and my buddy then went back to dancing for awhile, I noticed much easier fluidity with my dance and overall just more party like vibe.

Gave my buddy a line at one point that had him a bit wonky but still more alert than had it been S or racemic.

I noticed after couple hours I started to feel edgy though, I kept bumping R K hoping to alleviate the symptoms but realized quickly it was likely the R doing it. Did a bump of S and it evened it out perfectly.

Then continued dancing bumping R here and S there until in the blink of an eye the sun was up birds were chirping and I realized I needed to chill out and go to bed.

Absolutely did not like the comedown though, I’ve felt this before with racemic but doing large amounts of pure R this was next level. It was like a prolonged cocaine comedown, which is also why I avoid mixing racemic (and definitely R too) with cocaine. I’ve seen people, myself included, get real nasty the next morning.

Usually when I do S in a night at a festival I might do like 50-100mg, with racemic might be 100-200mg, with R did like 300mg and didn’t even use it the whole night. Moreish and easy to use a lot of…

I’d say you’ll know it’s R by the need for a higher dosage along with the lack of sedation. You won’t really get too wonky, much more clear headed. I’m curious to hear your experience too!

-GC

 

[Viraldrome]

This is like night and day K now that I tried it (R) is like K lite it leaves me felling up and nice but i cant seem to hole on it, much weaker its unsatisfying to be honest i feel like im missing something I can barley walk on K but this was like dancing K
its missing something, i am going to turn this into racemic, I will be buying all (s) in future i see no benefit to this this TBH its like K with no hole i dont think think you can hole with this shit. I could see this being the sanitized version of K to make the pharama bros happy because its way less scary, its lacking though, its k lite.