Ketamine Isomer Differencies?

[psy_konaut]

MASS SPECTROMETRY (gas and liquid chromatography)​

Shit,
This is a harm reduction site. I don’t think I would need to defend an honours THESIS

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Alright, thanks for providing this information. Now it is possible to rule out of a lot of things that could have been possible if the test would have been different; e.g. colorimetric testing. For some people that's enough to assess that what they have is Ketamine... But this is not the case here.

So, it was 100% ketamine but since they did not test for isomers, it is not possible to infer from this test that the product was 100% R-ketamine. Could have been an imbalanced isomeric mixture. Who knows? Without proper testing, this cannot be fully and unequivocally shown.

 

[tryptakid]

All I can go by is subjective experience in this matter but I will say this.

I have a long-time in person connect that has been a ketamine connoisseur (as have I) for over 20 years. He is someone who sources at a high level and has been a long-time reliable connect. I trust this person as much as I trust any vetted source.

Isomeric testing is expensive and difficult to facilitate outside of dedicated lab environments which the general public is unlikely to reliably have access to. We all have read available information which indicates that there are observed differences in S+/Racemic/R- ketamine batches. As I understand it, S+ is used clinically and is patented for use in esketamine and (IIRC) spravato. I also think that Anasket brand ketamine may have also been S+ but I could be wrong. Either way, we know that there is some supply side production of S+ ketamine in the world. That means that either A) racemic K is turned into S+ ketamine through some sort of process, or B) racemic K is filtered in some way removing R- ketamine while leaving S+ ketamine in place.

Now, as far as my friend is concerned - he stocks several different types of ketamine on the reg.

One is an S+ dominant powder, one is alleged pharma vials, and one is R- dominant powder.

I have used all three on a number of occassions and can say with absolute certainty that the S+ he has tends to be more stimulating, clear, and functional/manic endusing, while the R- is more of a "funhouse"/wonky effect. They are also potent in different degrees with the S+ being more potent on the low end, while the R- becomes increasingly more impairing as you escalate doses.

As I understand it, the R- type comes from sources in India while the S+ comes through EU sources.

No way to confirm any of this with actual data, but at least according to numerous bioassays, I will vouch for this information.

 

[psy_konaut]

All I can go by is subjective experience in this matter but I will say this.

I have a long-time in person connect that has been a ketamine connoisseur (as have I) for over 20 years. He is someone who sources at a high level and has been a long-time reliable connect. I trust this person as much as I trust any vetted source.

Isomeric testing is expensive and difficult to facilitate outside of dedicated lab environments which the general public is unlikely to reliably have access to. We all have read available information which indicates that there are observed differences in S+/Racemic/R- ketamine batches. As I understand it, S+ is used clinically and is patented for use in esketamine and (IIRC) spravato. I also think that Anasket brand ketamine may have also been S+ but I could be wrong. Either way, we know that there is some supply side production of S+ ketamine in the world. That means that either A) racemic K is turned into S+ ketamine through some sort of process, or B) racemic K is filtered in some way removing R- ketamine while leaving S+ ketamine in place.

Now, as far as my friend is concerned - he stocks several different types of ketamine on the reg.

One is an S+ dominant powder, one is alleged pharma vials, and one is R- dominant powder.

I have used all three on a number of occassions and can say with absolute certainty that the S+ he has tends to be more stimulating, clear, and functional/manic endusing, while the R- is more of a "funhouse"/wonky effect. They are also potent in different degrees with the S+ being more potent on the low end, while the R- becomes increasingly more impairing as you escalate doses.

As I understand it, the R- type comes from sources in India while the S+ comes through EU sources.

No way to confirm any of this with actual data, but at least according to numerous bioassays, I will vouch for this information.

Alright, but as I keep saying, the fact that two batches have different effects, does not mean that your batches consist of pure isomers. This is not enough information for making such a strong statement about a batch. This is the reason why I am storing samples and keeping them when I will be able to tests for isomers. I have especially got a hand on some very good one, which I loved, and would like to be able to find again. Only proper lab testing will be able to provide a clear answer to all of this.

 

[tryptakid]

Alright, but as I keep saying, the fact that two batches have different effects, does not mean that your batches consist of pure isomers. This is not enough information for making such a strong statement about a batch. This is the reason why I am storing samples and keeping them when I will be able to tests for isomers. I have especially got a hand on some very good one, which I loved, and would like to be able to find again. Only proper lab testing will be able to provide a clear answer to all of this.

You absolutely should!

i have no way of confirming how heavy one might be S+/race/R- ... I just know that the subjective effects of one align with the profiles ascribed to one isomer, and vice versa. It would be super cool to confirm what actually is present in the different types he stocks but until that time I have to drive by feel, so to speak. I am not questioning you or discounting what you're suggesting - just inputting my experience and why I think that it's reasonable to suggest that there are likely different isomeric expressions available for purchase on the illicit market to some degree. How widespread is obviously a completely different matter.

 

[psy_konaut]

You absolutely should!

i have no way of confirming how heavy one might be S+/race/R- ... I just know that the subjective effects of one align with the profiles ascribed to one isomer, and vice versa. It would be super cool to confirm what actually is present in the different types he stocks but until that time I have to drive by feel, so to speak. I am not questioning you or discounting what you're suggesting - just inputting my experience and why I think that it's reasonable to suggest that there are likely different isomeric expressions available for purchase on the illicit market to some degree. How widespread is obviously a completely different matter.

Alright, then we are on the same page. I can keep you updated. I am talking with some testing labs at the moment where they plan to to quantitatively test for ketamine isomers.

There is a possibility to do something along those lines at home with a simple lab setup but that would only be qualitative, which would be enough for testing isomeric purity, in fact, but not for characterizing isomeric imbalance in samples, which is something I am interested in clarifying.

I am sure there should one or more sweet spots in Ketamine mixtures that offer the best of both worlds.

 

[tryptakid]

Alright, then we are on the same page. I can keep you updated. I am talking with some testing labs at the moment where they plan to to quantitatively test for ketamine isomers.

There is a possibility to do something along those lines at home with a simple lab setup but that would only be qualitative, which would be enough for testing isomeric purity, in fact, but not for characterizing isomeric imbalance in samples, which is something I am interested in clarifying.

I am sure there should one or more sweet spots in Ketamine mixtures that offer the best of both worlds.

What I've typically done in the past is purchased both from him and then made combined nasal spray solutions (which can be used for both IM as well as standard nasal spray 100mg/ml = 10mg/spray) - this allows for a roughly-hewn racemic mixture which I find to be much better for attempts at high-dose utilization versus using either one independently. I prefer using the more isomer-heavy standalone in low-dose situations.

Overall, I tend to prefer the more "S+ heavy" batch for general use, but find it lacking for heavy use sessions.