Justice Department Seeks Ebonics Experts

orangescrewpen

orangescrewpen

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Justice Department Seeks Ebonics Experts
Editor William Bastone
The Smoking Gun
August 23, 2010

The Department of Justice is seeking to hire linguists fluent in Ebonics to help monitor, translate, and transcribe the secretly recorded conversations of subjects of narcotics investigations, according to federal records.

A maximum of nine Ebonics experts will work with the Drug Enforcement Administration’s Atlanta field division, where the linguists, after obtaining a “DEA Sensitive” security clearance, will help investigators decipher the results of “telephonic monitoring of court ordered nonconsensual intercepts, consensual listening devices, and other media”

The DEA’s need for full-time linguists specializing in Ebonics is detailed in bid documents related to the agency’s mid-May issuance of a request for proposal (RFP) covering the provision of as many as 2100 linguists for the drug agency’s various field offices. Answers to the proposal were due from contractors on July 29.

In contract documents, which are excerpted here, Ebonics is listed among 114 languages for which prospective contractors must be able to provide linguists. The 114 languages are divided between “common languages” and “exotic languages.” Ebonics is listed as a “common language” spoken solely in the United States.

Ebonics has widely been described as a nonstandard variant of English spoken largely by African Americans. John R. Rickford, a Stanford University professor of linguistics, has described it as “Black English” and noted that “Ebonics pronunciation includes features like the omission of the final consonant in words like ‘past’ (pas’ ) and ‘hand’ (han’), the pronunciation of the th in ‘bath’ as t (bat) or f (baf), and the pronunciation of the vowel in words like ‘my’ and ‘ride’ as a long ah (mah, rahd).”

Continued...
Link: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/bizarre/justice-department-seeks-ebonics-experts
 
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While this was first reported in The Smoking Gun, I think AP wrote up another article worth posting:

DEA seeks Ebonics experts to help with cases
By GREG BLUESTEIN
Associated Press
Aug 23, 2010


ATLANTA (AP) -- Federal agents are seeking to hire Ebonics translators to help interpret wiretapped conversations involving targets of undercover drug investigations.

The Drug Enforcement Agency recently sent memos asking companies that provide translation services to help it find nine translators in the Southeast who are fluent in Ebonics, Special Agent Michael Sanders said Monday.

Ebonics, which is also known as African American Vernacular English, has been described by the psychologist who coined the term as the combination of English vocabulary with African language structure.

Some DEA agents already help translate Ebonics, Sanders said. But he said wasn't sure if the agency has ever hired outside Ebonics experts as contractors.

"They saw a need for this in a couple of their investigations," he said. "And when you see a need - it may not be needed now - but we want the contractors to provide us with nine people just in case."

The DEA's decision, first reported by The Smoking Gun, evokes memories of the debate sparked in 1996 when the Oakland, Calif., school board suggested that black English was a separate language. Although the board later dropped the suggestion amid criticism, it set off a national discussion over whether Ebonics is a language, a dialect or neither.

The search for translators covers a wide swath of the Southeast, including offices in Atlanta, Washington, New Orleans, Miami and the Caribbean, said Sanders. He said he's uncertain why other regions aren't hiring Ebonics translators, but said there are ongoing investigations in the Southeast that need dedicated Ebonics translators.

Linguists said Ebonics can be trickier than it seems, partly because the vocabulary evolves so quickly.

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http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-08-23-21-00-47
 
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"You can maybe get a general idea of what they're saying, but you have to understand that this has to hold up in court," he said. "You need someone to say, 'I know what they mean when they say 'ballin' or 'pinching pennies.'"
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DEA Agent Sanders lets slip what I think the real reason for this is. As stated, there are no tests, so you can't really be sure the translation is accurate. And I think that is exactly the point. The can bring their panel of experts in and have these paid witnesses condemn the accused with all sorts of fabrications.

Remember, while you mean seem to be get the gist of what they are saying, you are wrong, its a whole other language and they all just confessed!
 
Every time I think postmodernity is dead, something like this happens. This is a throwback to the 90s.

ps I know a girl who's got a PhD in Comparative Linguistics who's a tactical nuclear weapons technician for the Air Force. They gave her that gig because they needed a linguist there. Why they need a linguist to essentially sit by a telephone with a doomsday key in hand 40 hours a week was never explained to me.

The OP may enjoy David Foster Wallace's (may he rest in peace) essay on grammar, which is one of the funniest things I've ever read. As always, the footnotes are mandatory.
 
Funny that the DEA considers ebonics a language, rather than a dialect.
The distinction between calling A and B different languages or different dialects is NOT scientific, interestingly, because there is no objective measure or criterion or dividing line.
The real-world dividing lines tend to be political or based on how much a speaker of A can understand B.
Therefore, the DEA, by calling ebonics a different language, is saying that they (and juries across the country) cannot understand ebonics sufficiently... which is probably true.
Maybe if they just listened to more hip-hop, or hired some ebonics speakers as part of their organization (not as linguists, but with actually responsibility in positions of power), things would be different.
I am not sure that they want to make things up, OSP, though it is certainly a possibility.
But I think that they need help understanding (and interpreting) the ebonics they hear/record.
(The "interpreting" part is the scary part to me)
 
At first i almost thought this was a joke but realized it would never stay open in here if it was.

I dont trust em. They act like it some kind of secret fuckin code they need to decipher.

I cant see how this would end up workin out. they dont understand it, so anybody could tell them this or that means anything and how the hell they gonna know the difference? I just got a bad feeling about this.

anyways, they talkin about the southeast?

The fuck do they know about that....That aint "ebonics." That is southern slang. And the slang in the south is crazy, and its different all over. whether u in new orleans, georgia, houston, alabama, wtfever--they allll got different slangs and styles down there. They aint gonna understand that shit with some "ebonics experts."

It IS funny to me that they so damn white bread, so cut off from any kind of hood slang that they view the ways that people talk as some kind of totally different language...but thats another story....Is it REALLY that hard to understand?

Iunno, this whole thing just sounds like a mess that can end up as a lot of trouble for a lot of people. I aint sure how exactly this will get used against people jus YET, but i guarantee that it will end up as some kind of outrageous shit that makes me angry to hear about in the future.
 
Lacey, you gotta look at it as them trying to bust the people that are least able to hire good lawyers: which means easy convictions for them. In Miami they used to prosecute people for shit they said on voice mail. If you were friends with a dealer, they'd pick you up for whatever and play you a bunch of recordings of yourself saying something dumb over the phone, then they'd try to scare you into thinking they could convince a jury that these recordings were enough to convict you of conspiracy to distribute several kilos. This was to either make you eat cheese or plead down to a lesser felony.

These were the feds, mind you. I haven't heard of them doing this lately, but I gotta say that the last time I moved down here from New York I still spent like 2 winters saying "it's brick outside" on cold days. Nobody in Miami says this or makes the connection between "brick" and temperature, but lots of heroin addicts (especially those that do a little dealing) have had to chisel and strain a brick of dope at some point. Enter the cops with PhDs in American slang on the payroll and you're in a world of shit all of a sudden: at least, this is the illusion they may try to create.
 
I've lived in a lot of hoods all over the country and ebonics really isn't rocket science, keeping up with the slang is easy if you are in the streets.

About 6 years ago I moved to Georgia, and it's ridiculous how much I *still* can't understand.

It's not so much that folks down here have different slang (they do), but rather that the southern drawl really doesn't sound like English sometimes. I've lived here for years now and sometimes I still have to ask folks to repeat themselves 2-3 times.

I noticed most of the offices they said are hiring are in the southeast, that doesn't surprise me.

EDIT: just read laceys post. pretty much agree with it.
 
Shit, I'm the whitest man in America, but I could translate for them. If they pay me six figures that is. They could pay me double, I could translate redneck for them, too.
 
Wow mr fluffykins, thanks for that super relevant comment. im sure everybody is totally interested in your opinion on the definition of "culture", especially since this thread is all about that and not the DEA usin their interpretations of language to screw over poor black folks.

Obviously you the one dealing with bein "uneducated" becuz u lack a basic idea of the things that a dialect or specific culture is made up of. "Ebonics" is a played out term anyways, and aint exactly accurate but go do some research on "Black American Vernacular" , etc. You might be suprised.

seep said:
Lacey, you gotta look at it as them trying to bust the people that are least able to hire good lawyers: which means easy convictions for them. In Miami they used to prosecute people for shit they said on voice mail. If you were friends with a dealer, they'd pick you up for whatever and play you a bunch of recordings of yourself saying something dumb over the phone, then they'd try to scare you into thinking they could convince a jury that these recordings were enough to convict you of conspiracy to distribute several kilos. This was to either make you eat cheese or plead down to a lesser felony.

These were the feds, mind you. I haven't heard of them doing this lately, but I gotta say that the last time I moved down here from New York I still spent like 2 winters saying "it's brick outside" on cold days. Nobody in Miami says this or makes the connection between "brick" and temperature, but lots of heroin addicts (especially those that do a little dealing) have had to chisel and strain a brick of dope at some point. Enter the cops with PhDs in American slang on the payroll and you're in a world of shit all of a sudden: at least, this is the illusion they may try to create.
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You got me LOL'in talkin about "brick", im sure that caused plenty of confusion down there. florida dont know bout new york (and nj, shit...)

Anyways, Im glad i aint the only one who sees this as pretty much the feds just using this opportunity to exploit peoples ignorance and unfamiliarness with "black" slang to screw people over.

think about it--if they can establish that somehow the speech cats are talkin is this shit thats so totally different from "standard" english, then anythin can mean ANYTHING. Who the fuck can say otherwise? If they can play this as some "secret code" shit that only these 'experts' can crack, whose gonna stop them from saying that X means Y, sometihn totally different than the real meaning, and convicting people on it?
 
i have done research on it,

its passed off as culture, even taught in schools, but in reality its just slang and bad grammar,

its a shame that the justice department has to seek ebonics experts,

its a shame the public school systems have failed people,

white people talk in "Ebonics" too,

and yes, maybe i don't have the best spelling and grammar, but thats the adhd at work, and the fact i write in stream of consiousness, because if i pay attention to long to what im writing i lose my train of thought

its English, spoken improperly, and given a name,

its slavery's fault, not black peoples fault, but still it shouldn't be just so lightly accepted

also, this job might be hard for the DEA suits, but the average 11 year old could easily do this job, just because of how shitty the media is now adays
 
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Mr_Fluffykins said:
i have done research on it,

its passed off as culture, even taught in schools, but in reality its just slang and bad grammar,

its a shame that the justice department has to seek ebonics experts,

its a shame the public school systems have failed people,

white people talk in "Ebonics" too,

and yes, maybe i don't have the best spelling and grammar, but thats the adhd at work, and the fact i write in stream of consiousness, because if i pay attention to long to what im writing i lose my train of thought

its English, spoken improperly, and given a name,

its slavery's fault, not black peoples fault, but still it shouldn't be just so lightly accepted

also, this job might be hard for the DEA suits, but the average 11 year old could easily do this job, just because of how shitty the media is now adays
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I don't know what you consider "research", but I have a PhD in linguistics and work as a linguist at a large research-oriented institution, and every single linguist I work with would unquestionably agree with me that your opinion is simply the drivel commonly propagated by undereducated, racist, privileged white people.

There is essentially no such thing as "bad grammar", at least how you are using the words. The only bad grammar is produced by non-native speakers.

Ebonics - or, more properly, all of the many varieties of ebonics - follows rules, just as the standard American English that you see as the "correct" form follows rules. The rules are not the same, but in each variety of a language, there are a series of rules that must be followed for communication to successfully occur.

For example, in some varieties of ebonics, double negatives are acceptable:

I don't have no money

Undereducated, privileged white people sometimes like to state that two negatives make a positive. This is certainly true in mathematics, but not in natural language. For instance, Spanish and French both use double negatives as a way of emphasizing a negative.

Spanish: no tengo nada (Lit. "I don't have nothing")

So the argument is revealed for what it is: an attempt to gain power by disempowering other dialects.

You don't speak like me, so you are wrong! 8)

In your life, the people who have declared their mighty opinions about which rules are right speak standard American English. However, there is no scientific basis for stating the the rules of one dialect or language are superior to another. None whatsoever.

Therefore, when you declare the ebonics is simply "bad grammar", you are revealing the following things about yourself and your thought processes:

1) You believe that there is a "correct" form of English, and all other forms are incorrect.

2) You believe the privileged white people who told you that their form of English is the correct form.

By believing these two things, you also perpetuate the racism and classism involved.

Let me quote the Linguistic Society of America's resolution, adopted unanimously at the 1997 annual meeting:

The variety known as "Ebonics," "African American Vernacular English" (AAVE), and "Vernacular Black English" and by other names is systematic and rule-governed like all natural speech varieties. In fact, all human linguistic systems -- spoken, signed, and written -- are fundamentally regular. The systematic and expressive nature of the grammar and pronunciation patterns of the African American vernacular has been established by numerous scientific studies over the past thirty years. Characterizations of Ebonics as "slang," "mutant," "lazy," "defective," "ungrammatical," or "broken English" are incorrect and demeaning.
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I would urge you to open your mind, expand your thinking and accept the fact that no dialect or language is superior to any other. The forms of ebonics follow sophisticated series of rules that are found in other languages.

If you are interested, some easy-to-find sources are here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American_Vernacular_English
http://www.plaidder.com/ebonics.htm
 
I ain't never met nobody who don't know how to speak no ebonics.
 
Mr_Fluffykins said:
i have done research on it,

its passed off as culture, even taught in schools, but in reality its just slang and bad grammar,

its a shame that the justice department has to seek ebonics experts,

its a shame the public school systems have failed people,

white people talk in "Ebonics" too,

and yes, maybe i don't have the best spelling and grammar, but thats the adhd at work, and the fact i write in stream of consiousness, because if i pay attention to long to what im writing i lose my train of thought

its English, spoken improperly, and given a name,

its slavery's fault, not black peoples fault, but still it shouldn't be just so lightly accepted

also, this job might be hard for the DEA suits, but the average 11 year old could easily do this job, just because of how shitty the media is now adays
Click to expand...

"True Dat yo!" Ebonics is not a language at all even if people want to claim that it somehow is.

Ebonics has nothing to do with slavery it has everything to do with people being uneducated.

I know blacks who do not speak, dress, or act like total thugs and look down upon blacks who do this and they consider them to be idiots since they are since they are proud of being uneducated and butchering the English language.
 
thank god for slimvictor, as this thread is outrageous. (i am also a professional in an allied field, and nearly every single thing every other poster has written here is demonstrably, over and over, provably wrong, even by those who agree with their side in general)

but forget the general issue: let's talk about the specific press release. i don't care what you call it. what in the world is wrong with LEO finding people who can understand what the suspects of criminal investigations are saying? can you people possibly be so blinkered by your politics that you would actually prefer LEO stop investigating speakers of black english because they are hard for other speakers to understand?
 
DrunkardsDream said:
Ebonics has nothing to do with slavery it has everything to do with people being uneducated.

I know blacks who do not speak, dress, or act like total thugs and look down upon blacks who do this and they consider them to be idiots since they are since they are proud of being uneducated and butchering the English language.
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well they are like the black equivalent of sXe... :P
 
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