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  • EADD Moderators: Shambles

Jews in Eastern Ukraine advised to "register" as Jewish by Russian paramilitaries

parttime crackhead said:
Edit - Those English people moved to Spain btw. The Russians in Ukraine, for the most part, did not move there.
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They had to have moved there or they would be Ukrainian not Russian. I do realise it's a bit more complicated than my somewhat stretching it (to say the least) Brits Abroad thing but the underlying part about at what stage does a population cease to be immigrant and become naturalised is of some relevance I think. I don't know enough about Russian (and surrounding areas) history to really know but I believe there was a lot of enforced movement of peoples around the place during Soviet times so can see how various groups could have issues about where they happened to have ended up. They may have had to have moved there to be there but that's not to say they necessarily chose to be there.

However, I'm not so sure that deciding that because a given population ended up in a foreign (to them) nation for whatever reason means they get to decide they now own or control it - what about the people who lived there originally and presumably still do? I vaguely recall it being a Soviet policy at one stage to mix up populations and move them about from place to place so as to try to homogenise all under the Soviet banner. As I said, I don't know enough about the history to really say but would imagine it's that kinda stuff that's causing many of the problems in former Soviet countries now in various stages of revolt and uprising of one sort or another. I agree that Russia has legitimate reason to be concerned (NATO bases on their borders and the like as you mention) but given it was essentially Russian (then Soviet - Russians were largely in charge of that afaik) manipulations that are perhaps the root cause for these situation (or a goodly part of the cause maybe) I'm not so sure they get to decide the fate of other nations again. Didn't work out so great last time or they wouldn't be having to do it again now. Seems rather like chickens coming home to roost almost.

Having said that, as I said above, the minimal force used so far is at least preferable to what looks like could very easily flip over to considerably more force. That doesn't make it right though.
 
The borders moved many times over many centuries. How far back does a claim go? As I said, I don't know enough about the specifics of history but would still suspect it has more to do with enforced internal movement of people during the Soviet era than anything else. The whole point of doing it was to mix populations and ethnic groups up so no one group could easily break off and claim a state of their own - all was Mother Russia. I would think that is why there are so many problems in so many of the former Soviet states in regards to which bit belongs to which people now it's all been broken up again. Borders really are rather arbitrary things. I'm not a fan of them and do wish we could all get over the silliness of it all. More impractical idealism I know but still with a nugget of truth within I suspect.
 
By the way it has been proven that those claims of Jews needing to register themselves were bogus, fake.

The thing about Putin, I like his leadership skills, the fact he's tough as nails and doesn't take shit from the US, I also admire his strenght, the Russians are a tough bunch and to be the chief of the Russian people for so many years means you need to be a tough motherfucker.

I completely disagree with their homophobic legislation, even tough that's been warped by the Western media, if you look at the actual laws they're not that bad, they're just against gay propaganda in schools and media, not an attack on homosexuals.

I'd like to have Putin as leader of my country that's for sure, can't be worst than what we got.

I also admire Putin for his continued support of the Assad regime, I have relatives in Syria and their survival is related to the government not collapsing, if the Islamists take over then religious minorities like my family are done for, fucked.
 
Ismene said:
Can you really be a fan of a leader like putin tho kenny? If you got in his way he'd put his foot so far up your arse you'd choke on his bootheel.
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I would lick the dust from his sandals, wouldn't get in his way, I l know he's have me capped if I were an opposition activist.
 
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Shambles - Why don't you take half the time you've taken to comment and spend it looking into the recent history of Crimea. A minute ago you were claiming the people had to have moved to get into Ukraine in the first place. Now you're saying oh well borders don't matter anyway. It's not really like you to comment on something you clearly haven't bothered to get a clue about.

Either way, the rescue ethnic russians thing is only a very minor part. The main thing is that sea port at Sevastopol. That's why Russian troops were already in Crimea, and that's the main reason they claimed it.


Kenny - I don't agree with Russia's anti-gay laws, and I think you're being a bit naive if you think the gay propaganda thing is all quite innocent and doesn't have wider implications. But, the way some of the stuff has been twisted to paint Russia in an even worse light than they paint themselves is pretty wild. Saw something the other day banging on about them trying to pass some law to stop gay men from giving blood, or from donating organs, as though that was another example of Russia's rampant homophobia - completely glossing over the fact that gay men can't do those things in this country.
 
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parttime crackhead said:
Shambles - Why don't you take half the time you've taken to comment and spend it looking into the recent history of Crimea. A minute ago you were claiming the people had to have moved to get into Ukraine in the first place. Now you're saying oh well borders don't matter anyway. It's not really like you to comment on something you clearly haven't bothered to get a clue about.
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The bit about not being a fan of borders was an aside unrelated to the rest of what I said. I said in both posts that I make no claim to any indepth knowledge of the history but that the internal movement of peoples was used as a means to fuck with peoples' national claims. That is the case and I can't see how it is of no relevance to what is going on now. I didn't suggest it was the whole story and am aware of the importance of the naval port to Russia.

Mental Kenny said:
The thing about Putin, I like his leadership skills, the fact he's tough as nails and doesn't take shit from the US, I also admire his strenght, the Russians are a tough bunch and to be the chief of the Russian people for so many years means you need to be a tough motherfucker.
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I mostly admire his moobs <3

NSFW:
Screen-Shot-2014-04-10-at-13-23-23.jpg


(just in case vlad happens to be reading i would in no way wish to suggest effeminate suggestion in any way reflects reality or suggestive of any kind of walking of the lavender pathway - we've all seen the topless horse-riding pix so manliness is in no doubt and i'd rather not be invited for "special tea" if you don't mind)

Mental Kenny said:
I completely disagree with their homophobic legislation, even tough that's been warped by the Western media, if you look at the actual laws they're not that bad, they're just against gay propaganda in schools and media, not an attack on homosexuals.
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And there is a perfect example of warping and misrepresentation of Russia's anti-gay policies. I'm sure even you believe what you just wrote. I certainly hope you don't anyway.
 
Its got nothing to do with 'ethnic russians' its all about keeping control of the black sea. There are loads of ethnic russians in other regions of ukraine but they arent rushing to protect those. Crimea is all they want/need.
 
parttime crackhead said:
Kenny - I don't agree with Russia's anti-gay laws, and I think you're being a bit naive if you think the gay propaganda thing is all quite innocent and doesn't have wider implications. But, the way some of the stuff has been twisted to paint Russia in an even worse light than they paint themselves is pretty wild. Saw something the other day banging on about them trying to pass some law to stop gay men from giving blood, or from donating organs, as though that was another example of Russia's rampant homophobia - completely glossing over the fact that gay men can't do those things in this country.
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Is that true?!? That's gobsmacking. What on Earth is the supposed justification for that? I can only presume a hangover from even less enlightened times. I don't doubt that at one stage people probably did think you could catch gay from bodily fluids but I'd presume whatever bizarro reason there was for that law initially will have been thoroughly debunked and now nothing more than an amusing aside "You'll never believe what they used to think about homoblood...". How the hell has that been overlooked with all the various reforms of various laws relating to homosexuals? Bit of a shocker and bit of a national disgrace to still have such laws on the books. Unless I'm missing some obvious trait in the fluids and organs of homosexuals. I tend to avoid both in day to day life (their fluids and organs not themselves) but if I required blood or organs I can't imagine I'd be asking what sex its previous owner happened to favour.
 
It's ridiculous, but it's true. You have to answer a wee questionnaire when you give blood. If you've bummed a man in the past year you can't do it.

I don't know for a fact that it's true for organ donations but I've been told it is and have no reason to doubt it.

The reason seems to be higher chance of BBVs. Various other things such as having been to Africa, or pumped an African also disqualify you from giving blood.

Basically a throwback to "Gays = AIDS", init?
 
Throwback indeed. I know certain drug users are not allowed to give blood - presumably IV users for the aforementioned BBV reasons. I can see the sense in that but not really with gays. I can't see how making an assumption like that fits with anti-discrimination laws. You can't just presume that because a person is gay they must have higher risk of carrying nasty infections. There's plenty straight people who indulge in risky sex practices without protection and are surely just as likely to be harbouring something unpleasant. Also probably less likely to know about it cos I suspect that gay men are probably a bit more likely to be aware of the risks as there seems to be more of a focus on awareness since the AIDS thing happened.

I'd like to think that any blood and organs put forth for transplant have been checked out for nasties before they go near a patient anyway so don't really see why it should be necessary to make such exclusions at all. Perhaps too much to hope for. I know that Occasional Mrs Shambles' ex husband contracted Hep C from a blood transfusion - admittedly that was 20-odd years ago and hopefully things have been tightened up since then.
 
Im so mad because your are so blind.

Keep watching "RT" news - what REALLY HAPPENS in ukraine
 
Mental Kenny said:
I completely disagree with their homophobic legislation, even tough that's been warped by the Western media, if you look at the actual laws they're not that bad, they're just against gay propaganda in schools and media, not an attack on homosexuals.
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When vigilante groups attack people because of their sexuality 'gay propaganda' in schools exactly what you need.


eLW said:
Im so mad because your are so blind.
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eLW said:
Keep watching "RT" news - what REALLY HAPPENS in ukraine
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Yup. Totally honest and unbiased.
No really
8)
 
Indeed. That is a rather bizarre comment. I know RT journos haven't always toed the state line but also know they only get so far not doing so on an issue like this and tend to be out of a job for one reason of another if they don't present something remarkably similar to a Kremlin press release. On foreign news they are great, on Russian-related news considerably less great.
 
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