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Israel shelled Palestinians after evacuating them, UN says

Ernestrome

Ernestrome

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/09/gaza-palestinians-israel-evacuees-zeitoun



Israel shelled Palestinians after evacuating them, UN says

Killing of 30 people in house full of evacuees 'one of gravest incidents' since Gaza operations began

* Jo Adetunji
* guardian.co.uk, Friday 9 January 2009 11.38 GMT
* larger | smaller
* Article history

The body of a child is removed from a house in Zeitun
The-body-of-a-child-is-re-001.jpg

The body of a girl who was found in the rubble of her destroyed house following an Israeli air strike on a house in Zeitoun Photograph: Mohammed Abed/AFP/Getty Images

At least 30 people were killed in the Zeitoun district of Gaza after Israeli troops repeatedly shelled a house to which more than 100 Palestinians had been evacuated by the Israeli military, the UN said today.

The UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA), said in a report it was "one of the gravest incidents since the beginning of operations" against Hamas militants in Gaza by the Israeli military on 27 December.

OCHA said the incident took place on 4 January, a day after Israel began its ground offensive in Gaza. According to testimonies gathered by the UN, Israeli soldiers evacuated about 110 Palestinians to a single-storey house in Zeitoun, south-east Gaza. The evacuees were instructed to stay indoors for their safety but 24 hours later the Israeli army shelled the house. About half the Palestinians sheltering in the house were children, OCHA said. The report also complains that the Israeli Defence Force prevented medical teams from entering the area to evacuate the wounded.

The OCHA report does not accuse Israel of a deliberate act but calls for an investigation. Responding to the report, an Israeli military spokeswoman, Avital Leibovich, told AFP news agency: "From initial checking, we don't have knowledge of this incident. We started an inquiry but we still don't know about it."

Among the dead were nine members of the Samouni family; a picture of three of the family's children in blood-stained clothing laid on a morgue floor and in front of their grieving father was shown in the Guardian on Tuesday. The father, Wael Samouni, said dozens of people had been sheltering in the house after Israeli troops ordered them and neighbours to stay inside.

"Those who survived, and were able, walked two kilometres to Salah Ed Din road before being transported to the hospital in civilian vehicles," the UN said.

Rescuers from the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) and the Palestinian Red Crescent Society said they were able to reach the area on Wednesday only after being allowed safe passage by Israel.

The ICRC issued a statement on the incident yesterday, accusing the Israeli military of "unacceptable" delays in allowing medics safe access to injured Gazans.

More than 40 Palestinians were killed in another incident on Tuesday after missiles exploded outside a UN school that had been sheltering hundreds of people in the Jabaliya refugee camp, despite the UN saying the school was clearly marked with a UN flag and its position reported to Israeli military.

More than 750 Palestinians have died since the start of the Israeli military operation. More than half of Gaza's population are children, and the Palestinian ministry of health said about 42% of the casualties have been children.

Unicef said at least 100 children and minors were killed in the first 10 days of fighting. The Palestinian Centre for Human Rights, which posts staff at hospitals to track casualties, put this number at more than 160.

Abdel-Rahman Ghandour, the Jordan-based spokesman for Unicef in the Middle East and North Africa, said: "We are talking about urban war. The density of the population is so high, it's bound to hurt children … This is a unique conflict, where there is nowhere to go."

Israel has accused Hamas of using civilians as human shields and has said militants have fired rockets from rooftops of homes and mosques.

Mark Regev, an Israeli government spokesman, said: "Israel wants to see no harm to the children of Gaza. On the contrary, we would like to see their children and our children grow up without the fear of violence. Until now, Hamas has deliberately prevented that from becoming reality."

Fighting in Gaza has continued despite yesterday's UN security council resolution calling for an "immediate" and "durable" ceasefire and the full withdrawal of Israeli troops from Gaza. The resolution was passed with 14 out of 15 members in support of the resolution. The US abstained from the vote.
 
Ernest, there is already two threads on the Israeli Operation in Gaza and both of them include this subject so you should have looked before leaping. I myself have offered a full rebuttal in both of those threads, one is in this forum the other in European and African Drug.

I do need to say that the Guardian is even worse than most Arab peridoicals! You could have at least pretended to try and find an objective source. Shame.
 
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Nothing out of this war suprises me anymore. Basically it comes down to a fascist false state standing over a lot of poor people that just need what is rightly theirs.
 
I don't doubt that the shelling took place, but this was probably due to incompetence, rather than sadism. Anyone who has studied modern warfare can tell you that fuck-ups like this happen like this all the time. Maybe an Israeli military communication that reported "Civilians evacuated to this location" got changed to "Palestinians spotted at that location" by the next radio operator, that got changed to "Potential hostiles spotted at this location," and so on. Or maybe some scared Israeli spotter thought he saw hostiles, not realizing that civilians had been transfered there, and ordered an artillery strike. I'm not trying to downplay the tragedy, but given the careful PR role Israel must play, the idea that they'd issue a command to intentionally murder a bunch of civilians just to say "fuck you" doesn't make sense.
 
I do not have the time to direct you, but it is a current thread in both of the afore mentioned forums and the issue only took place about 48 hours ago, although granted both threads are packed with pages. Anyway, the issue...

The schgool in question has been a HAMAS Operations Center since 2007. That is Factoid Number One. Factoid Number Two: 81 MM mortar batteries were in place on 3 sides of the main building AND the roof. A Qassam launch site was on the 4th side. The main building itself was, at the time being used as a HAMAS Command and Control Centre and being used to direct both other rocket/mortar batteries that were attcking Israeli civlians.

At the same time, more than 1000 civlians had sought shelter in the compound. 42 people died, 11 of whom were civlians. Quite tragic indeed but 11 out of 1000 with a long range shelling. TOT to a tee, meaning Israel if anything was absolutely professional and acted well within the dictates of both International Law AND reasonable moral standards.

International Law, specifically subgenre ROW states that a target must constitute a valid military Objective. This site qualified on 5 separate counts. Then, it specifies that the site must be higher than the possible Collateral Damage. Even without the C and C Centre in the main building that was directing all shelling from Jabaliya Camp and vicinity, the 4 batteries (3 mortar , 1 Qassam) placed this target's value on the extremely high end of the scale. The C and C Centre made it crucial.

By the way, a single 81 MM shell can level a 3 story building, keep that in mind.

That is the first thing. Showing pics of dead kids is obnoxious especially when said rag has never once covered S'derot of Sha'ar HaNegev, 2 Israeli Districts where more than 100,000 CIVLIANS were forced to remain AT ALL TIMES within 12 seconds of a bomb shelter FOR 3 YEARS. Over 100 CIVILIANS have died, IN ISRAEL, from Qassam and mortar attacks in those 3 years, during which more than 8,000 Qassams landed in Israel (ignoring Grads AND mortars, as well as RPGs and snipers) and yet the Guardian somehow finds THAT picture worth objectifying. Very telling indeed but then that is no suprise even to Israel's most harshest critics. The Guardian is like me using the Israeli Foreign Ministry as a source, or Faux (Fox) News. It is ridiculous.


As for the ICRC, you are talking about an agency that not only employs militants as paid employees, but an agency whose ambulances have both been used to commit terorrist acts as well as them having been used to ferry weapons and kidnap victims in and out of Gaza, hence the delay. Furthermore, ICRC is extremely biased against Israel even without it being entirely "Palestinian" in Gaza. Wonder why it only comprises the Red Cross and Red Crescent and not the Red Star (Magen Adom/Magen Daveed)? You might want to think on that one.

Finally, ALL vehichles entering conflict zones are delayed until windows of safety can be effected. This is to prevent further unneccessary loss of life. Had Israel allowed them to go wherever they want, aside from the issue of them being used as terrorist fronts, they would drive into Israeli shelling killing many more innocent people. That is merely common sense.
 
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Jack: indeed, mistakes DO happen even in TOT shelling with the best equipment and manpower. This was deliberate though, since the site was amilitary Objective. Israel released film of the site dating as far back as BEFORE the HAMAS Coup in Gaza (June 2007) showing the site being used as a terrorist compound.

Then, HAMAS members have been identified by name, among the deaths, and their bodies photographed close up. "Palestinians" and their lackeys (Guardian being a prime example) love to manipulate facts (all entities do but the "Palestinians" are espeically abhorrent in this matter). Look at the Muhammed al Dura Hoax. The Jenin 2002 Hoax. the Qana Hoax in Lebanon (not "Palestinian" there but an example of how Arab opponents of Israel lie outright and manipulate the press).

Take the Beirut Reuters pics of that same war, take ALL the doctored photos by Arabs! ISM, the "Crying Old LAdy in Front of Demolished House" that was photographed in front of 6 different houses in 6 different villages (hahahah), or the same rescue worker being photographed in 4 corners of the country on the same day, AND THEN as a Hezbollah press spokesman the next!

They are playing on Western naivete and the psychology of visceral images that cause people to sit bolt upright in the dinner chairs as they watch their nightly news. They correctly gamble that most will never research issues or that if they do such research will involve periodicals and sources like the Guardian!

The site, as I said, has been used by HAMAS since early 2007, and the civlians although many might have voluntarily sought refuge there seeing as how the UNRWA still flies its flag there (no big suprise on that one but I will not waste time meandering into THAT subject), but you can rest assured that ponce any tried to leave they would have been prevented from doing so by HAMAS gunmen. This is their stock in trade, using women and children as a win/win tactic when iniating hostilities. Either Israel will refrain from hitting the site because of the risk of Collateral Damage OR Israel WILL strike and incur said Damage and thus win a PR War being waged even more strongly by these terrorists.
 
You dont suppose they would exaggerate the death toll do you?? I couldnt imagine....


Fake Palestinian Funeral


Last night I was watching the Israeli news, and the IDF (Israel's army) released a video of a fake Palestinian funeral in Jenin.

Using a small plane (drone) without pilots, Israel was able to film how the Palestinians tried to stage a fake funeral to show as many casualties as possible were buried in Jenin.

"In the tape you see the fake 'corpse' being wrapped and then lying down on a stretcher. The stretcher bearers are not particularly adept and you can see him fall off several times.

During the course of the funeral the 'corpse' was dropped and the 'dead' Palestinian got up from the ground scaring many of the Palestinian marchers who were not cognizant of the deception."

To watch the 3 minute video, click here.
For the full article, see below.

Fiction can Be Fun!

http://factsofisrael.com/blog/archives/000012.html
 
To the OP: I am assuming that you are aware that this Guardian picture is not from the School (there WERE 5 kids dead there as well mind you), yes? this was a house and the house could have been destroyed by either side since HAMAS shelling leaves alot to be desired as far as accuracy.

It would not be the first nor last time they blew up one of their own houses either mistakenly (like 2 weeks about outide Bein Hanoun, via misfired Qassam, 3 kids died in THAT one), OR deliberately (as in the house on top of their border tunnel near Kerem shalom Crossing that precipitated this current Israeli Operation almost 3 weeks ago).
 
Warehouse: "Jenin Funeral.": EXACTLY, Jenin in 2002. The entire Operation was full of such bogus nonsense. Arafat swore to the US newsshow "60 Minutes" that once machinery cleared the rubble that "tens of thousands of civlians" would be found!

The irony there is that just as in Gaza we minimised any potential threats to civlians! The militants had lain up to 500 IEDs and Booby Traps along particular alleys, had purposely used civlian decoys and shileds, and so on. They told the world that we carved ftuses out of women, raped women, all kinds of BS and of cours enot one thing was true.

Have kids died in Gaza now? Of course, it will always happen. Gaza has 1.6 million residents in an area equal to 2 X the size of the tiny US city Washington DC. It is a warren of alleys, hovels with no building code or planning! Yet, look at the school that the OP is talking about! More than 1000 civlians inside a HAMAS compound. 11 dead!!! Yet, they turn that around and say "Child Killers" it is amazing how gullible most people can be with emotional images. They are allowing themselves to be played like violins.
 
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rachamim said:
To the OP: I am assuming that you are aware that this Guardian picture is not from the School (there WERE 5 kids dead there as well mind you), yes? this was a house and the house could have been destroyed by either side since HAMAS shelling leaves alot to be desired as far as accuracy.

It would not be the first nor last time they blew up one of their own houses either mistakenly (like 2 weeks about outide Bein Hanoun, via misfired Qassam, 3 kids died in THAT one), OR deliberately (as in the house on top of their border tunnel near Kerem shalom Crossing that precipitated this current Israeli Operation almost 3 weeks ago).
Click to expand...

Yes i know this is not the school incident.
 
Moderator post:

To primarily the OP, please try to post to preexisting threads of similar content rather than creating new ones. I'm going to opt not to merge this one with the others, as it'd be a mess. . .
 
There is never an accepted rate of collateral damage where the lives of children are concerned. There is no issue that can exist in the same auditorium at that. Any obfuscations or attempts at justification is nose-thumbing slander to the victims and their families. That picture brought tears to my eyes.

I sincerely hope whoever bombed that school house spends an eternity suffering for their actions.
 
i agree fully(hence the statement), if HAMAS kept that in mind their would be much less drama occurring but i dont like pointing fingers & it takes at least 2 to tango in any given situation. I apologize if any feelings were hurt by that statement in anyway. 8)
 
Kyk: "There is never an acceptable amount of Collateral Damage when kids are in the mix.": In your mind. But in the case of International Law there certainly is. We live in reality Kyk, not an American or British bedroom community. Those 5 Arab children, out of 1000 civlians? They were in a compound with 4 rocket batteries trying to kill hundreds of Israeli children. It certainly is ACCEPTABLE. Wonder what you would find it if your kids lived in S'derot, Sha'ar HaNegev or Ashkelon.

See, my kids ARE THERE. I find it COMPLETELY acceptable. My concern first and foremost are MY kids. HAMAS is the leadership in Gaza, it is the entity putting Gaza xhildren in harms way, not Israel when it legally protects itself from an 8,000 rocket onslaught.

"Kyk cried tears when seeing the picture of the Gazan child.": Kyk, do you cry tears for the children in S'derot? LEt me tell you soemthing that you Guardian will never care to show you. There was a 15 year old girl walking her little retarded brother home from a program for handicapped kids when the Early Warning System went off, which means you have 12 seconds to find shelter. She was too far, and knew it. She threw the boy down, laid her body atop him and in seconds she was blown in half. the retarded boy lives.

That girl in Gaza died , BECAUSE of killings like that S'derot girl. YOu need to stop feeding into media maniuplation and rationally approach the situation. We do not try to win you with manipulation but truth. We could post pictures of that mongoliod crying over his sister's decapitated head but we feel it is disingenuous, that people should think factually and not be maniuplated. We are steupid. We need to play to people like you, the majority.

When you cry for Gazans, remember, they suffer out of CHOICE. WE suffer because of those same GAZAN choices. We do not CHOOSE to suffer or make other suffer.

Would you like me to post a list and short snippet about all 100 plus victims of just Qassam attacks in that 36 month period? Would that make it easier for you?

I mean, I have already taken great pins to explain about UNRWA involvement with HAMAS, with info on that site dating back 2 years, but you feel more response towards a Gurdian picture and do not begin to realise they hoped you would. It is not journalism, that ould be showing both sides. It is sheer propaganda and maniuplation.

"Kyk hopes whoever 'bombed' the school spends eternity suffering.": LEt me educate you Kyk. It was not "bombed." It took a single well placed mortar round with GPS assitance. GPS has a 30 meter plus/minus liability meaning that hundreds could have died. We wanted to use precise shelling, like TOT but the system was out of whack and we had to shut their shelling down so resported to mortars. We hit the mark at less than 2 meters. 1000 plus people, 11 civlians. You ought to be praising whoever shot that mortar because he did it perfectly and saved many lives on both sides with his professionalism.

Funny, you did not wish an eternity in hell for the 4 rocket batteries are the UNRWA official (Chris Gunness) who allows HAMAS free reign of UN facilities! That perhaps is most telling.
 
Fristy: "2 to tango.": Yep, nand ever ACTION has a REACTION which is the real truth you need to consider. One has no chocie BUT to tango when their children live in bobm shelters for 3 years.
 
Corresponded with rach - removing ad. hom attacks. - Kyk
 
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