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Israel shelled Palestinians after evacuating them, UN says

rachamim said:
I do need to say that the Guardian is even worse than most Arab peridoicals! You could have at least pretended to try and find an objective source. Shame.
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Aren't you the guy that started a thread sourced solely from a Jerusalem Post op ed piece?

Ironies abound.
 
Kyk: Kyk's BL name.": Oh, to be honest I never once imagined you to be racist. I did make a joke a couple of days back about the name but you realised it was a joke. I do not think people should read too much into things. I also have to add that I have never seen you act out of overt hatred for anyone or anything. I do hope though that you would not allow yourself to be manipulated by visceral images. It is called PSYOPS, they are well versed in it .

As for youe lovely ad hom bon mots, you are certainly entitled toy uor opinions but I would offer that this is perhaps indicative of a alrger problem on your behalf. Hating a person you have never met is akin to saying you hate how life is lived on the moon. It is ridiculous.

Have you ever bothered to try to know about me at all? You base your judgements on my ability to show your position to be based on hot air. I do not hate you, r anyone else on BL (including BLers I happen to know in real life).

"Gratuitous reminders from Rachamim that he is a Jew.": Gratuitous? How would thatw ork? A thread on say, :Sarah Palin's conservatism with my chiming in, "I think Palin is not experienced or savvy enough for the world stage because I am Jewish?" What the hell are you on about?

If the situation warrants it, I am happy to explain myself and about myself. My goal is not trading in juvenile name calling but actual discourse. This means, theoretically anyway, that people should be as open and honest as possible.

For me to prtend to be an Ioawan corn farmer, or a San Francisco Harley riding bull dyke is not making any sense. I allow others to know my inherent bias, and move past it towards actual communication. I AM A JEW, both culturally AND religiously and this is who I am. In talking to people it is their right to know, when appropriate for the discussion. I believe in honesty, care to join me?

"Cardboard cutout.": Because you believe my views to be that of a Jew, and I AM a JEw. Wow, you make ALOT of sense Kyk! Sure convinced me!

Now let us try soemthing novel for a change. Remove your propensity for name calling and shooting middle fingers, and let us FACTUALLY discuss THIS issue, OK? All you will accomplish is to get this thread closed and that I am afraid is extremely selfish on your part.

I do appreciate that you send me that long curse filled PM because that is exactly where it should remain, in a PM. This is a thread devoted to an actual subject as opposed to Rachamim or your perceptions of him. think on it a bit.

Bit: Thread started by a Jersualm Post op-ed piece.": NEVER. Here is your chance to show me to be a liar, provide your proof. Then hopefully you will be able to join a mture discssion on THIS issue.

Pander: Kyk talked about his name, I did not (save for a one liner when he joked towards me). It was not an issue, so again try to keep it on subject, unless of course you lack any factual argument. In THAT case, just move on.
 
rachamim said:
Bit: Thread started by a Jersualm Post op-ed piece.": NEVER. Here is your chance to show me to be a liar, provide your proof. Then hopefully you will be able to join a mture discssion on THIS issue.
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Happy to oblige

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=412287



JPost.com » Opinion » Columnists » Article

Dec 25, 2008 23:11 | Updated Dec 26, 2008 18:15
Column One: The 'realist' fantasy
 
I dont get how you guys think it is so horrible to defend yourself from attack. You feel sorry for Palestine, when Israel keeps to treaties, until palestine breaks them. If the common people really felt that the militants were horrible people, why do you not hear anything from Palestinians denouncing them?
 
I have never thought Israel was a pure entity. But what of the question I asked? If Most Palestinians are peace loving people, why do they not speak out against the terrorists on a daily basis, denouncing them from their ideals?
 
because they build schools and hospitals, and do pretty much everything else that a functioning government does in Gaza-- things fatah couldn't even manage when they were in power. It doesn;t make rocketing Israelis acceptable, but it makes pali ambivalence to it a bit more understandable.
 
I think Israel is a pretty cool guy, eh kills civilians and doesnt afraid of international opinion.

whenever russia kills civies in chechnya/dagestan, everyone BAAAAAAAWS about evil russia doing evil things..

Israel does it and everyone is like "lol they have no choice, teh poor jews, ect"
 
rangrz said:
I think Israel is a pretty cool guy, eh kills civilians and doesnt afraid of international opinion.

whenever russia kills civies in chechnya/dagestan, everyone BAAAAAAAWS about evil russia doing evil things..

Israel does it and everyone is like "lol they have no choice, teh poor jews, ect"
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Estimated civilian casualities in Afghanistan killed as a result of U.S.-led military action since 2001 is:

* direct deaths: at least 4,800 - 6,873
* indirect deaths in initial invasion: 3,200 - 20,000
* direct & indirect deaths: 8,000 - 26,873

USA is a pretty cool guy, eh kills civilians and doesnt afraid of international opinion.

Edit: From what I can find quickly online, the estimated Taliban casualities in Afg. is around 4,000. I hope those figures add some perspective to the current Gaza numbers.
 
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Pander Bear said:
both sides break their promises. Only one side, however, has the support of American arms merchants.
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The other smuggles Iranian and Chinese arms through Egypt. What is your point? Do you really believe all of those rockets were manufactured in the gaza strip?

One side phones intended target buildings half an hour before they are struck informing the occupants of the incoming attack. The other side then forces civilians onto the rooftops of said buildings in an attempt to maximise civilian casualities and win the sympathy of the rest of the world for being oppressed.

One side is willing to implement a two nation policy and negotiate peace, the other is willing only to accept the complete destruction of the other.

If the Palestinian people were serious about peace they would condem the militant action, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, and force Hamas into peace talks and a ceasefire. Unfortunately it doesn't look like this will happen anytime soon.
 
Seriously.... look at those numbers for a bit, learn some statistics, and realize how meaningless they really are.... especially compared to the Taliban figure

* indirect deaths in initial invasion: 3,200 - 20,000
* direct & indirect deaths: 8,000 - 26,873
 
the other smuggles iranian and chinese arms through egypt. What is your point? Do you really believe all of those rockets were manufactured in the gaza strip?

One side phones intended target buildings half an hour before they are struck informing the occupants of the incoming attack. The other side then forces civilians onto the rooftops of said buildings in an attempt to maximise civilian casualities and win the sympathy of the rest of the world for being oppressed.

One side is willing to implement a two nation policy and negotiate peace, the other is willing only to accept the complete destruction of the other.

If the palestinian people were serious about peace they would condem the militant action, the izz ad-din al-qassam brigades, and force hamas into peace talks and a ceasefire. Unfortunately it doesn't look like this will happen anytime soon.
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100%
 
BitPattern: "Happy to bolige." Did you bother to read that Op-Ed?" If you had you would not have put yourself out on a limb like that. As I believe I have explained a few times lately, a few years ago Mods here decided that they wanted hyperlinks with all threads. I wirte my own pieces. I do not post copyrighted materiel and panw it as my own. I do however have to prove the issue exists by posting a link to a story that includes it.

Now, since you have taken (wasted) the time to post both my thread AND that hyperlink, show us where anything in MY post there is ANY materiel fro the article. That will be how you show me to be a liar. Not posting a hyperllink I myself included in an article. You make no sense. The Op-Ed gives it a line, which provise my proof as per Mods request, and?

Question: All the time and energy you devote to TRYING and dispaaiging me, do you not have other things to do? A Life perhaps?

Pander: "Only one side has the support of US Arms Merchants.": You mean Syria AND Iran are not directly selling to HAMAS? Is that what you mean?

As "I wish Rach would be a hero to." YOu are a MOd, start acting like one. I realise it is only a "Music Discussion" forum but you chose to wear the hat, act like it.

Rangrz: Amazing that you would try to bring Chechnya into the mix when nooone says a damn word about it? How many activists travel to Chechnya? Howe many Chehnyans get face time with the Guardian? You are not making any sense.
 
rachamim said:
BitPattern: "Happy to bolige." Did you bother to read that Op-Ed?" If you had you would not have put yourself out on a limb like that. As I believe I have explained a few times lately, a few years ago Mods here decided that they wanted hyperlinks with all threads. I wirte my own pieces. I do not post copyrighted materiel and panw it as my own. I do however have to prove the issue exists by posting a link to a story that includes it.

Now, since you have taken (wasted) the time to post both my thread AND that hyperlink, show us where anything in MY post there is ANY materiel fro the article. That will be how you show me to be a liar. Not posting a hyperllink I myself included in an article. You make no sense. The Op-Ed gives it a line, which provise my proof as per Mods request, and?

Question: All the time and energy you devote to TRYING and dispaaiging me, do you not have other things to do? A Life perhaps?
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All the time and energy? What, the two minutes and fraction of a kilojoule it took to point out that you, by your volition, were lying? Considering the time and energy you seem to exert typing reams of attacks and rebuttals I find it amusing that you are telling me that I should get a life. =D
 
rachamim said:
Ernest, there is already two threads on the Israeli Operation in Gaza and both of them include this subject so you should have looked before leaping. I myself have offered a full rebuttal in both of those threads, one is in this forum the other in European and African Drug.

I do need to say that the Guardian is even worse than most Arab peridoicals! You could have at least pretended to try and find an objective source. Shame.
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Stop defending this. there is NO excuse for killing children. I don't care what side you are on... defending this makes you SICK and WRONG.
 
rac: Chechenya is a fair comparison, its a big powerful country "defending" itself from a little group of rebels by shelling and air-striking the living bejsus out of civilian cities. Same shit.

Oh and for the casualties in Afghanistan...once again, When I was there, twice, I never once seen a fire mission that was targeted on civilian buildings like schools. Sometimes, there was inaccurate shells and bombs that hit them...but never once was it on purpose.

If there was taliban in a city/civilian area...guess what? We dismount and go door kicking in the streets, to avoid civilian casualties.

Aslo the #'s for the afghan campaign are for 7 years of conflict, not 18-19 days.
 
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