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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Israel shelled Palestinians after evacuating them, UN says

If you try and talk about Israel purposely killing children as hundreds of millions of viewers watch on theri tellys you are not in touch with reality.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/jan/14/media-frustrated-over-gaza

Millions of views aren't watching shit because as I just mentioned the media is banned from Gaza and even southern Israel near Gaza.

If Israel is so great and following the law to a T why won't they let foreign reporters into Gaza or even anywhere near Gaza even within Israel?
 
because we're all already in the tank for the arabs, ya dummy! 8( We're likely to misinterpret those little baby coffins as lamentable deaths, rather than is signs of arab barbarism.
 
because we're all already in the tank for the arabs, ya dummy! 8( We're likely to misinterpret those little baby coffins as lamentable deaths, rather than is signs of arab barbarism.

They dig those little coffins up from their cemeteries man, get with it. ;)
 
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IT would also be nice to hear one of you say, just once: hey, we're sorry that those people died, rather than saying 'it was all someone else's fault'. [Even meaning 'sorry' in the context of 'regret' rather than 'apologise']. Just once. Admit that it's sad that children are dead. Just.once.

Thank You.

People have their heads shoved so far up the ass of whover they're supporting that they lose all perspective, or refuse to acknowledge the damage that's being done.
 
The disclaimer before the CBC report I heard yesterday stated that the Isreali militia were editing the broadcasts. They're not being told from the reporter's perspective, but instead being read from scripts that are screened beforehand.

This is a stipulation for being allowed near the fighting.
 
Um, you do. Well, they do denounce them - maybe it's not reported where you are.

For one thing, Hamas and Fatah were fighting each other. It's not like everyone in Palestine supports Hamas.

You'll find a huge amount of ambivalence towards Hamas among supporters of Palestine. I mean, they're an Islamic fundamentalist group.

But on the other hand, as Pander Bear alludes, they were keeping the Gaza strip functioning. They were providing social services and food and stuff. That's going to be worth a lot, in anyone's language. If they can promote the situation as 'the Isreali boycott means you don't get food or medicine, but thanks to us, you do', that's a powerful narrative (no matter how true it is).


So you feel it is okay for a poor family in New York in the 1920s to support an Organized crime syndicate because they put money in the Church offering on Sunday? Even though they kill people by the score?


Gaza conflict: Who is a civilian?. By Heather Sharp. January 5 2009. BBC News. said:
The BBC reported on January 5 that "Witnesses and analysts confirm that Hamas fires rockets from within populated civilian areas, and all sides agree that the movement flagrantly violates international law by targeting civilians with its rockets."

[QUOTE="Warnings Not Enough for Gaza Families" (January 5, 2009).]The New York Times quotes a study about to be published by the Israel-based Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center, an independent research group that has close ties to the Israeli military establishment, saying that Hamas has methodically built its military infrastructure in the heart of population centers. According to the study, Hamas not only hides among the population, but has made a main component of its combat strategy “channeling” the army into the most densely populated areas to fight.[/QUOTE]

Hamas Fighters Display Mix of Swagger and Fear. The New York Times. Published January 13 said:
In a January 13 story, a Hamas militant who was willing to be anonymously interviewed by The New York Times reporters stated that “I’m a civilian, and I’m a fighter". He claimed that the small and enclosed nature of the Gaza strip meant that he had nowhere to stay except in civilian areas, saying that “Where do we go... There are no other places.” He also claimed that most Palestinian residents accept and shelter Hamas militants who hide amongst them

23rd Day of Continuous IOF Attacks on the Gaza Strip. 18 January 2009. Palestinian Center for Human Rights. said:
The New York Times stated on January 10 that "Unwilling to take Israel’s bait and come into the open, Hamas militants are fighting in civilian clothes; even the police have been ordered to take off their uniforms."

A Gaza War Full of Traps and Trickery. By Steven Erlanger. The New York Times. Published January 10 said:
"Unwilling to take Israel’s bait and come into the open, Hamas militants are fighting in civilian clothes; even the police have been ordered to take off their uniforms."

[QUOTE="Israel says map shows Hamas puts Gaza civilians at risk". CNN (January 9, 2009). Archived from the original on January 13, 2009.]Israel claims to have found a map, which, it argues, shows "'the deployment of explosives and Hamas forces' in the Al-Attara neighborhood in northern Gaza." This map allegedly shows that Hamas has placed many explosives and firing positions in residential areas, several mosques, and even next to a gas station. Israel concedes these are designed to kill Israeli soldiers, but says that they put the local population in extreme danger[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE="Hamas Exploitation of Civilians as Human Shields". Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs (January 2009).]The house of Muhammed Barud, a senior member of the Popular Resistance Committees, was attacked on December 30. Secondary explosions indicated the home's dual-purpose as a weapons storehouse. Nizar Rayyan and his family were killed during the attack. Israel alleges that their presence was designed to ward off Israeli attack. It pointed Arab media reports that civilians had, back in 2006, taken shifts serving as "human shields" of the Barud residence...

..."the Hamas police force operations room in the northern Gaza Strip was moved to the Kamal Adwan hospital, and operatives of Hamas’s naval police were situated in a school in Khan Yunis."...

...Israel argues that Hamas blurs the line between civilians and combatants, and is therefore responsible for civilian deaths in Gaza. The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs alleges that Hamas' alleged use of "human shields" and "operational use of heavily built-up and densely populated civilian areas" violates Article 8(2)(b)(xxiii) of the Rome Statute. This statute defines as a war crime the act of "Utilizing the presence of a civilian […] to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations." It also defines Palestinian attacks as terrorist in nature, because they kill civilians in order to "sow terror" within the broader civilian population. This would constitute violation of the Laws of Armed Conflict, as outlined in Article 51(2) of Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions of 1949[/QUOTE]

I did a search on google for Palestinians against Hamas, instead of finding sites dedicated to intelligent Palestinians tired of the bloodshed, I found nothing. In the second quote above a militant in an interview claims that Palestinians routinely house and feed militants.... but what about all the reports I found that charge Hamas with dressing soldiers as civilians, keeping arms in houses and churches, crowding civilians onto the roofs of buildings where weapons are stored,so that Israel will not bomb them.

How can anyone actually think these people care about them, when they are storing munitions in the same rooms their children are learning the alphabet?

Infinite Jest, It seems as if in AMerica, there would be tons of reports of palestinians against these groups shelling Israel, if it was indeed commonplace. I just do not think it is, because it is just not seen. What I do see, and this is everywhere, are people burning Israeli flags, cursing Israel, blaming them, and cheering for Hamas. I would love to think this is untrue, but I cannot find anything reputable, that indicates that most Palestinians are against Hamas, and want to befriend Israel.
 
I have to say that ssadly, this very graveand serious subject is being treated like a game by several of the last posters here, Beenhead excepted. It is not a joke. this is a huge part of the problem with the issue. Westerners who have never known a day of TRUE adversity or mortal danger in most cases are dismissive of one or both sides. You think it s laughin matter for either side?

As for the nonsense fromthe Guardian, BBC, and otherwise IT IS BIASED and anyone here willing to could do 20 threads on any one of those sources athouh to the BBC's credit it refused this past week to air a public service ad for Gazans , that capitalised on bleeding babies, because it was biased for Arabs. however most other British sources did air it and that shows soemthing right there.

HAMAS caused it, Gazans allow HAMAS to exist, itis not brain surgery. Israel does not aim for civlians but as in any conflict they suffer. Casulaties have been minimal and that should be to Israel's credit. If Gazans wish for change they have the ability to effect it in their own hands.
 
Casulaties have been minimal and that should be to Israel's credit.

Wat!?

Every time I think you're starting to make sense, you go and throw in these nuggets of dried crap.
 
I'm sure the families of dead civilians will take solace in the fact that the death of their loved one was mathematically marginal.
 
Kyk: what they CAN do is effect change within their community. the next time their child turns on the telly and sees a childrens' show instructing kids to blow themselves up asnd kill the JEWS (not Israelis as if that mattered) because they are the "progeny of apes and pigs" then the parent can write to the station ("al Akhsa" owned by HAMAS) and ask for it to have different programming or boycott the station.

Next time the kid gets a text book showing Jewws as a lower form of life (pigs and apes again) then the parent can effect THAT change.

The next time HAMAS or PIJ or PRC sets up a mortar on their srteet they can effect THAT change (truth be told some communjities have been doing that for 2 years but not changing anything because of the violence directed towards them by their own communities).

Why is it Kyk that you feel nothing, or express nothing for the Israelis both Jewish and Arab who have died and been crippled by the terrorism coming out of Gaza? Were it your child, would you care more about YOUR child or a child in Gaza? As humans we must choose our battles, our causes, and one should ALWAYS first worry about one's own family. I am an Israeli, my borhters and sisters die in Israel, not Gaza. Gaza xcauses it. We try to minimise the bloodshed asd i pointed out to you with my questions which you did not bother to answer, and yet you cry "foul."

I will answer them for you Kyk:

1.6 million live in Gaza. LESS than 1400 died. Even if you say all were civilians (and only 300 and change were), the IDF/IAF operating in the most desnsely populated spot on the planet managed NOT to kill 99.9% of the population. Please save your tears if you cry only slectively.

I have seen more blood than you EVER will, and I have to tell you I hate violence. I fuc^ing hate it. If I COULD, I would not ever touch another gun but sometimes we do not have the luxury of a perfect world. When Gaza stops killing US I guarantee you will never see another IDF Operation there.
 
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