JahBeeuS
Bluelight Crew
tbf much of the information that is "so damn accessible" on google is still in need of further research.
Israel is under attack
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arrall
Bluelight Crew
See 1937 Black Sunday in which Irgun militants massacred civilians in a series of terrorist attacks, not (obviously unacceptable) violence between civilians.
Black Sunday (1937) - Wikipedia
So 1 off the list, dozens still on there.
I find it funny that you tried to nitpick a single item on that list while ignoring things like the Flour Massacre that happened only weeks ago or the reprehensible Deir Yassin massacre of hundreds of civilians that occurred after a ceasefire was agreed too.
We can take the first one off the list, but you are missing my point.
If this is about self-defence, then by your logic Hamas is completely justified.
If Black Sunday was justified, then so is October 7th.
Do you see the issue with this logic?
None of these attacks are okay.
Not Black Sunday, not Deir Yassin, not the Flour Massacre, and not October 7th.
So by your logic, the MSM is lying about the vaccine but is the gold standard of truth in the Israeli-Palestine war.
Last I checked, AIPAC and Zionist interests are in bed with the MSM a lot more than big pharma.
Can you give me a source on that?
I’ve heard eyewitness interviews on YouTube.
There’s more evidence than the October 7 oven baby and rape stories (which have all been debunked and retracted), but I am hoping that these claims are fake as well.
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Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Maybe the Arab Palestinians shouldn't have murdered 5 Jews before that? That seems to be what started it?See 1937 Black Sunday in which Irgun militants massacred civilians in a series of terrorist attacks, not (obviously unacceptable) violence between civilians.
Black Sunday (1937) - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Definitely before Israel was even created, which expands this conflict to religious hatred, and if you want to expand it beyond 1947 then I think Jews definitely deserve A LOT more sympathy.
I didn't nitpick, I literally googled the first one on the list. Admittedly, did not bother to go further.
Laziness if anything, not nitpick.
No. I'm not super involved in any of this.
Eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable and not really a "source".
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
If conflicts prior to 1947 are being used to implicate Israel in genocide (before it even existed), then we can surely go back in time and include all the moral atrocities and genocides committed by Muslims all over the world, on a significantly larger scale...
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
#Justice for the MILLIONS of exiled and displaced Jews from Muslim nations in the last 8 decades
-_- cheering for any side in this war is absurd imo
misrepresenting the atrocities of the other, is also absurd.
-_- cheering for any side in this war is absurd imo
misrepresenting the atrocities of the other, is also absurd.
arrall
Bluelight Crew
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
@arrall I've already stated several times now, by my logic, that I understand why Hamas exists. I understand why Oct 7 happened.
Like I've said, I don't justify Israeli aggression, either.
I detest religious hatred.
The way I see it, both have equal impetus and reason to kill each other.
Almost every single post I've made in this thread is simple criticism of historical facts, or their omission, within context, or the lack of context itself.
I have no skin in the game.
Like I've said, I don't justify Israeli aggression, either.
I detest religious hatred.
The way I see it, both have equal impetus and reason to kill each other.
Almost every single post I've made in this thread is simple criticism of historical facts, or their omission, within context, or the lack of context itself.
I have no skin in the game.
arrall
Bluelight Crew
I think we are in agreement here then, and I misunderstood your position.
Sorry about that.
To clarify my position for anyone else:
- The IDF and Hamas are both despicable terrorist organizations and neither one should be supported by America or any other country
- Hostage taking is a war crime on both sides
- The IDF's slaughter of 30,000-40,000 Palestinian civilians, multiple Israeli civilians, and hundreds of journalists and aid workers is a war crime
- Hamas's slaughter of 1410+ Israeli civilians is a war crime
- Israel blocking food, water, water purification technology, medicine, and electricity from reaching civilians in Gaza is a war crime
- It is not acceptable to level entire cities to kill a handful of terrorists, and Israel clearly has the ability to not do that but still chooses to do so
- Israel is not "defending itself" any more or less than Hamas is
- A single democratic and secular state in which Israelis, Palestinians, and people of any religion or ethnicity can live together peacefully is the only realistic path forwards
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
Why do those who believe in 'God' the most tend to kill other humans the most?
This really branches into a whole different topic, but I truly feel that Abrahamic religion causes more harm than it cures.
So counterintuitive.
never seen any massacres or wars or drama caused by Buddhists or Taoists or Atheists (collectively) -_-
90% of human atrocities in the last 2000 years point in one direction.....
This really branches into a whole different topic, but I truly feel that Abrahamic religion causes more harm than it cures.
So counterintuitive.
never seen any massacres or wars or drama caused by Buddhists or Taoists or Atheists (collectively) -_-
90% of human atrocities in the last 2000 years point in one direction.....
Deleted member 521610
Bluelighter
buddhists are commiting genocide in burma.
But yeah abrhamic religions are the leading cause for genocides and masscares.
mal3volent
Bluelight Crew
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To suggest that the two are equivalent in any way is absolutely absurd. The IDF does not target civilians. The IDF does not seek to annihilate an entire race of people. They have their issues as any military does but to say they're the same is a very cringe take.
Israel does not take civilian "hostages". They arrest people who have committed crimes, including Hamas terrorists. If you want to say that some of those are bullshit or that their trials are unfair that is a separate discussion. (and I would agree that some of them probably are) But it is very different than going into Gaza, raping and killing civilians on purpose, and kidnapping more to take back and hold as hostages. Again a completely false equivalence.
Slaughter implies that they deliberately went in with the intent of killing civilians. Only the most unhinged tankies believe that shit. I doubt you read the analysis of Israel's warning and evacuation campaign, but if their intent was to slaughter as many as possible I don't see why they'd do go to such lengths to warn them beforehand.
They've been sending in humanitarian aid from the beginning. Unfortunately lots of the trucks are attacked and the resources hoarded or sold on the streets. Again when you are at war with an enemy/government who lives and operates amongst the civilian population to shield themselves from attack, there will be unfortunate unintended consequences. If you were at war with someone would you allow them to use your power grid?
So explain the process where Israel eliminates Hamas without widespread destruction? How does that work exactly? Also why are you downplaying the number of terrorists? I've seen estimates anywhere from 30,000 to 40,000. In an area the size of Philadelphia? Operating out of civilian infrastructure? Tell us how that works exactly, and what evidence you have that Israel is "choosing" not to minimize civilian death.
I don't see what your point is here. Hamas can attempt to defend itself all it wants. Doesn't change the fact that they are bloodthirsty terrorists who target civilians. Self defense is not purposely killing, raping, and kidnapping civilians. You have no evidence that the IDF as an organization has ever intentionally targeted civilians. That WOULD actually be a war crime.
There is already a place where any religion or ethnicity can live together peacefully. It's called Israel. Arabs live there. Muslims live there. Jews live there. Christians, atheists, Homosexuals live there. Should they continue to improve the lives and rights of minorities there? Absolutely. Should they have a leadership change? I would think so, yes. All of these things are possible in a relatively progressive democracy.
How many Jews, homosexuals, and atheists live in Gaza or any of the surrounding Arab states?
A secular state is a nice goal to work towards but the Muslims there don't want that any more than the Jews do. I think one state solution is copium bordering on suicide for Israel. Seeing as the leadership elected in Gaza wants to literally exterminate their Jewish counterparts.
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Nas47
Road-Weary Traveler
Please God forgive their ignorance.....sorry for u man.....leave the country asap....advice......horror comes to u
Rachrach
Bluelighter
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It is non binding and Israel obviously not going to allow foreigners to define any aspect of its national security programme .
Rachrach
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Raping little boys & girls is defence in your mind? Baking a baby? Incinerating at least 33 Jews is defence now?
Why do Palestinians need to defend themselves? They rule 41% of what you assuredly call the "West Bank." Prior to this war they ruled 100% of Gaza. They enjoyed the second highest qualify of life in all of MENA. By the way, Israeli Arabs are #1.
Israel does not rape & pillage. It only desires to be left alone. Pretty simple really. 32 Palestinian terrorist organisations west of the Jordan River are to a tee, opposed to Israel's mere existence. In the Israeli
alestinian paradigm only Israel has a need for self defence.IF ever there would be such an inversion, self defence is subject to LOAC/IHL. A party cannot operate outside of those International Laws no matter the Casus Belli.
arrall
Bluelight Crew
Those claims have all been disproven, and I believe even the IDF admitted that the baby incineration is false.
Palestinians have been killed en masse by the Israeli government or pre-Israeli paramilitary groups for nearly a century.
Unarmed protestors were fired upon and killed by the hundreds in 2014.
If peaceful protest is met with violence, then the protests will escalate to be violent as well.
In interrogation clip, captured terrorist confesses to raping Israeli woman on Oct. 7
"Is this the only thing a voice in the head ever tells these people to do, is to kill others? Doesn’t a voice ever tell a guy: “go take a shit on the salad bar at Wendy’s”." - George Carlin
I did appreciate some of the comments on this story on the DailyMail version, along the lines of, 'so.. God/Allah was with you all through your brutality spree but then you got hoodwinked by Satan at the critical moment?'
"Is this the only thing a voice in the head ever tells these people to do, is to kill others? Doesn’t a voice ever tell a guy: “go take a shit on the salad bar at Wendy’s”." - George Carlin
Hey Mal - not trying to jump into this bees nest of an issue.... I don't know what the right answer to any of this shit is.. it's the society-level equivalent of two people with complex trauma having an intimate relationship IMHO.
I will say this - my wife worked in Palestine as an ELL/ESL teacher for a number of years. The IDF absolutely targets civilians, beta-testing US made chemical weapons, tear gassing students heading into school. My wife talks about using waterproof mascara because of all of the tear gas encountered while commuting to work some days, or watching soldiers arbitrarily stop commuter buses, pull off young palestinians (this is in the West Bank) to harass them at gunpoint for no apparent reason. There were plenty of times stuff like this would happen while Israeli tour groups would be casually walking past, showing tourists heritage sites and places for great falafel. In a word, kafkaesque.
For reference, my wife is not a radical or a reactionary, just someone who liked arabic and wanted to help provide education to those who were interested in it. Sometimes I think about the idea of just going to work in the morning and having a soldier tear gas you for lulz, and then just having to deal with it and then go about your day... what that kind of stuff would do to me.
The whole situation is right fucked, and none of what has been happening suggests it's going to get any better. It's just creating precedent for further violence, rinse and repeat.
nepalnt21
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yeah no shit lol i was trying to drive the point home that the israeli government DOES NOT value life, and it's pretty amazing that anyone thinks they do... they don't even value the lives OF ISRAELIS!!
nepalnt21
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a war crime
nepalnt21
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regardless, none of it is justification for collective punishment. i don't even care if a majority CURRENTLY LIVING there voted for hamas (which, again... is not the case), nothing justifies war crimes, ethnic cleansing, etc.
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