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Kratom Isolated 7-OH-Mitragynine products are beginning to hit the market (!...?)

Be advised, the new "chewable" 7-OH pills offered by the two vendors I bought from I think contain an RC opioid. I suspect ODSMT, but not totally sure.

One vendor advertises them at 20mg 7-OH, the other at 15mg, but I've seen a private COA that says they only have 4.5mg 7-OH with an additional unidentified peak on the GC/MS.

I took a few of them last night and they had stronger more distinct opioid effects which also lasted much longer than 7-OH. They had an incredibly bitter taste. They also gave me insomnia which typical opioids do.

The original 15mg were tasteless and definitely only have 7-OH, and never gave me insomnia.
 
The 7-oh extract at Stardust worked pretty well finally got around to it. I just add 250mg to red bali and green dragon pretty awesome blend but there was trial & error. Did 1g of the extract plus red the first go and got a hangover.
 
Yeah I’ve never really gotten a “hangover” from kratom…I have gotten negative effects while under the influence of kratom (ie nausea) but that’s not really a hangover
 
Yeah I've had a couple actual hangovers may be mostly dehydration tho but it was a unique headache so idk. Taking too much and hangovers seem less severe than alcohol. Plus I don't anticipate any hangovers moving forward. Adding 7-oh made me have to dial it in again. I doubt I'll ever take 7-oh on its own doesn't seem ideal.
 
So what is the difference between your typical Kratom extract and these 7-OH extracts? Is it because regular Kratom extracts also have Mitraginine? I don't know much about the chemistry behind Kratom or other drugs.

Every time I took Kratom extracts they felt more like a classic opioid, so how does this stuff really feel different from typical kratom extracts?
 
7-OH is a metabolite of mitragynine that is an unbiased partial agonist with a greater affinity for mu than morphine where mitragynine has a lower affinity. Basically its far more potent but it can also produce respiratory depression where mitragynine doesn't
 
I am so outdated on extracts. I have not had one in a decade. Some of them from years ago felt sketchy. Like UEI. Every time I did that the next day I would be feeling strange.

But since I am trying to come off slowly I stick with plain leaf. This thread has some great info though. Even if I never try any of these isolated extracts the reading is interesting.
 
@someguyontheinternet technically it has lower affinity than morphine (1 > 7), but is more potent in that a smaller dose is needed to achieve a similar effect.

I would guesstimate 15mg of 7-OH is equal to about 50-60mg of morphine, in terms of raw analgesia.

Morphine is much more euphoric, though. I would prefer it any day over 7-OH.

JackARoe said:
I am so outdated on extracts. I have not had one in a decade. Some of them from years ago felt sketchy. Like UEI. Every time I did that the next day I would be feeling strange.

But since I am trying to come off slowly I stick with plain leaf. This thread has some great info though. Even if I never try any of these isolated extracts the reading is interesting.
Click to expand...

Yeah I would avoid extracts, it opens up a whole can of worms and will completely ruin a kratom taper.

Extracts have come a long way since the UEI days. Much cheaper, more options, more potent.
 
"while the affinity of mitragynine for opioid receptors is less than that of morphine, 7-OH-mitragynine is far more potent than either, approximately 46 times that of mitragynine and 13 times that of morphine"

Kratom—Pharmacology, Clinical Implications, and Outlook: A Comprehensive Review - PMC

Kratom, or Mitragyna, is a tropical plant indigenous to Southeast Asia, with unique pharmacological properties. It is commonly consumed by preparing the leaves into decoction or tea, or by grinding them into a powder. Recent evidence has revealed ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
someguyontheinternet said:
"while the affinity of mitragynine for opioid receptors is less than that of morphine, 7-OH-mitragynine is far more potent than either, approximately 46 times that of mitragynine and 13 times that of morphine"

Kratom—Pharmacology, Clinical Implications, and Outlook: A Comprehensive Review - PMC

Kratom, or Mitragyna, is a tropical plant indigenous to Southeast Asia, with unique pharmacological properties. It is commonly consumed by preparing the leaves into decoction or tea, or by grinding them into a powder. Recent evidence has revealed ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Click to expand...

Maybe he meant the efficacy
 
If you can hit the same level of analgesia with 7-OH as morphine, efficacy should be the same. AFAIK 7-OH isn't a partial or biased agonist like mitragynine but rather a full agonist. Partial agonists have lower maximal effect which is explained in the PDF below

www.merckmanuals.com

Dose-Response Relationships - Clinical Pharmacology - Merck Manual Professional Edition

Dose-Response Relationships and Clinical Pharmacology - Learn about from the Merck Manuals - Medical Professional Version.
www.merckmanuals.com www.merckmanuals.com

This PDF is super thorough in explaining the dose response relationship:

 
someguyontheinternet said:
If you can hit the same level of analgesia with 7-OH as morphine, efficacy should be the same. AFAIK 7-OH isn't a partial or biased agonist like mitragynine but rather a full agonist. Partial agonists have lower maximal effect which is explained in the PDF below

www.merckmanuals.com

Dose-Response Relationships - Clinical Pharmacology - Merck Manual Professional Edition

Dose-Response Relationships and Clinical Pharmacology - Learn about from the Merck Manuals - Medical Professional Version.
www.merckmanuals.com www.merckmanuals.com

This PDF is super thorough in explaining the dose response relationship:

Click to expand...

You know a lot of work on 'biased agonists' wasn't an unalloyed success. The RC brorphine was one candidate a Chinese research team found but their work was abandoned as it appeared that they merely produced opioids with lower efficacy rather than any 'biased' activity.

Trevena launched oliceridine (Olinvyk) which is the first 'biased agonist' to be marketed as such and yet the livery still lists addiction, abuse and misuse; life-threatening respiratory depression; neonatal opioid withdrawal syndrome; and risks from concomitant use with benzodiazepines or other central nervous system depressants... Which MAY just be the FDA ensuring they still cover all bases. But it's structure shares features with known partial agonists (low efficacy ligands).

A non-addictive opioid is obviously something with the potential to be a blockbuster but I would be careful to ensure any study you use as evidence really is independent.

Obviously it would be a remarkable breakthrough if strong opioids could be prescribed without concerns about abuse or addiction but we simply don't have sufficient clinical evidence to gauge if it really is the huge sea change we hope for.
 
Would a lower efficacy not produce life threatening respiratory with increasing dose? I'd assume there's a point where it would happen if the dose is increased enough
 
someguyontheinternet said:
Would a lower efficacy not produce life threatening respiratory with increasing dose? I'd assume there's a point where it would happen if the dose is increased enough
Click to expand...

Indeed. But I was merely noting that the list of warnings is no different to any other opioid; I just gave the list in full.
 
Can we talk about the fact that ALL Kratom leaf sucks now, everywhere? It’s literally everywhere, all online shops sell the crappy stuff now but act like it’s lab tested by showing old labs.

The vendors will send you a tiny sample of the rare old Kratom that is still good then when you purchase a kilo of the same exact type, they ship you a giant bag of the crap that is everywhere.

I don’t know what happened but it feels like opiate antqgonists mixed with ground up wood or random plants. It doesn’t have any good buzz to it anymore and even all the backup shops and local stores are selling the same crap where I used to be able to at least buy a reliable “not great but not horrible” bottle of powder. Now it’s all the same crap. Even one half teaspoon gives me this weird all over body chills for 12 hours like opiate withdrawal, no buzz at all but severe itching.. it’s really weird.

Also even though it no longer contains a good buzz somehow even one dose of it will cause a double withdrawal for a few days after one dose and it wasn’t even fun.

If all Kratom sucks now I don’t care if it’s banned, maybe that would keep the kids of today from having to go thru that shit and waste all their money making these vendors rich, buncha scammers is what they are. Even the huge well known companies that advertise with influencers that used to sell the best Kratom with a clean buzz are pulling the “rug pull method” of paid bots and using old labs and sending out crap antagonists. Reel you in with a tiny sample then ship the crap out then refuse to refund. They all got paid human bots on Reddit pretending to rave about powder just to offload it.
 
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