Is the influx of RC's ruining the true psychedelic experience?

[hashdout]

I must be a hard head as well my last experience was 40mg 2c-e and 35mg of 4-aco-dmt at around the peak of the 2c-e.

 

[guerillabedlam]

Ive had profound, moving, intense psychedelic experiences from Many rc's but if there was one that I would say is complete with its own distinct character I would say its dpt. Try that if you haven't yet op.

I know what you are saying about some of the rc's feeling forced, or like for 4-aco-dmt its potent to me but somewhat 'hollow' compared to shrooms. I try to appreciate the dramatic change in consciousness though and often I feel I can get more out of a 2cb trip since I still have my ego and mind left to integrate the thoughts and sensations as opposed to like a heavy mushroom trip where I'm just floored for 6 hours trying to hold on.

 

[demon66]

I tried a few RC's such as 4aco DMT, 2ci, 2ct7 all several times. All were vastly inferior to LSD, mescaline, or shrooms, except for 2ci perhaps. 2ct7 visuals were plain sloppy, uncoordinated yet quite powerful. 4 aco DMT had a very odd high and felt toxic when I took 150+ mgs. 2ci was actually more of a true psychedelic.

Yeah, I do feel that the RC's do distort the so called psychedelic experience. Some of the many newly synthesized chemicals probably aren't really psychedelics.

No offense, but some are just plain second rate drugs, that produce undesirable effects, and/or are bad physiologically to the body. Though I'm sure some are very promising. RC's are a mixed bag I guess.

 

[guerillabedlam]

Try 400-500 mg oral dose of DPT.

I definitely don't find 4-AcO-DMT hollow (quite the contrary) though, so maybe I'm just naive.

I dont think being naive has as much to do with it as individual responses, doses, set/setting and other variables. Also this is perhaps a semantical issue I dont Mean hollow with any sort of positive or negative spin, it just didn't feel like it sat in my stomach and was as full on as eating a bunch of mushrooms with multiple alkaloids, still a solid trip though.

 

[MagickalKat777]

If you want an intense experience, take a high dose of 4-HO-MiPT. That stuff knocked me out of this universe - I had ego death on 28mg and I've had full blown ego death MAYBE three other times.

 

[killo]

RC's do feel controllable and empty to me and like someone said the visuals can be sloppy yet STRONGER feeling than any LSD visual.

Doesn't mean they compare since psychedelics are more than just visuals. LSD is a prime example, I've never had feelings, mindfucks, insights on other RC's like compared to LSD.

Sure I've had little insights on some of the DOx but nothing like LSD where it's so far out.

DOx was never as far out as LSD, it was more concrete.

I think RC's have ruined some of the psytrance scene, the music sounds more like RC's than LSD now if you know what I mean. More tense, dark and "hardcore speedy" sounding and less "trippy", "groovy" and shamanic.(LSD)

 

[MagickalKat777]

... that post made absolutely no sense.

I've had 2C-E blast me into the same type of universe that LSD did (if somewhat darker), plus its easy to find out if you have 2C-E whereas LSD its a crapshoot. Who knows maybe that LSD you did WAS a research chemical...

The CLOSEST research chemical I can think of to LSD is 2C-E (though I've heard 2C-P is even closer) and AMT is closest to a candy flip.

 

[Xorkoth]

many trippers seem to think they will find something deeper than LSD (not possible)

I agree with all aspects of your post except this. See, that's the thing. LSD is a chemical. "RCs" are all chemicals. How could we possibly know there's not something else we could find that's deeper than LSD? And anyway, I'm the mod Delsyd was talking about... for me, LSD has never gotten me very far, but several of the RCs, particularly DOC and 2C-E, have really given me amazing, life-changing experiences. And who's to say that something new won't be found that almost everyone considers deeper than LSD? Anything is possible. There are nearly an infinite number of ways we could arrange molecules so that when they're ingested we experience psychological effects. Never say never.

I dunno I personally think 2C-E is exactly how he described, very controllable and easy-going (mentally) even at the highest doses, however I don't think it ruins the psychedelic experience, 2C-E is perfect as an analytical drug, ego loss is often the goal with psychedelics, but some things can't be done without the ego - and for those things, whether it's recreation, trying to think through life problems, boosting creativity, or something else entirely - 2C-E (and most likely the other 2Cs) = perfect.

Have you ever read my 2C-E report? Usually now 2C-E is quite controllable, though very deep when you allow it to help your thoughts flow and bore at things, but that one trip with it was easily the most intense trip I've ever had, and the most terrifyingly beautiful ego death of my life.

RC's are a mixed bag I guess.

Exactly... because, as someone else pointed out earlier, "RC" is a meaningless term. It doesn't mean these chemicals are in any way related (some are like 2C-B to 2C-E of course), and even related chemicals are still unique ones. To blanket them all into one category and say "RCs are all second-class drugs" or "all RCs are shallow" is to misunderstand what these chemicals are.

 

[whoseanb]

Wait a minute... so 2C-E is legal in the states?

 

[Jesusgreen]

RC's do feel controllable and empty to me and like someone said the visuals can be sloppy yet STRONGER feeling than any LSD visual.

Doesn't mean they compare since psychedelics are more than just visuals. LSD is a prime example, I've never had feelings, mindfucks, insights on other RC's like compared to LSD.

Sure I've had little insights on some of the DOx but nothing like LSD where it's so far out.

DOx was never as far out as LSD, it was more concrete.

I think RC's have ruined some of the psytrance scene, the music sounds more like RC's than LSD now if you know what I mean. More tense, dark and "hardcore speedy" sounding and less "trippy", "groovy" and shamanic.(LSD)

That's a bit general, there are HUNDREDS of psychedelic RCs, all vastly different. Some are deeper than LSD, mushrooms, DMT, etc.. others are not deep at all and simply just visual. Some are colourful, some are dark. Some are fun and some are neutral. You can't judge RCs as a whole going by just a couple of them

Have you ever read my 2C-E report? Usually now 2C-E is quite controllable, though very deep when you allow it to help your thoughts flow and bore at things, but that one trip with it was easily the most intense trip I've ever had, and the most terrifyingly beautiful ego death of my life.

I don't think I have, care to link it? I've definitely had some very deep trips on it, but I've yet to experience ego loss with it. To be fair though, saying that there's no potential for ego loss with it is a bit rash, I just have yet to experience it, whereas with higher doses of 4-AcO-DMT it's pretty much guaranteed.

 

[invert]

Count me on the side of the novel (well, more novel than LSD) chemicals. I love LSD, but if I had to select three psychedelics to take with me on my desert island, I find it hard to imagine I'd omit 2C-B, DiPT, or 4-AcO-DMT. I've had more disturbing stimulation and anxiety off LSD than off those three, and I think the diversity, psychedelic depth and quality of those three would make up for the lack of some of LSD's specific qualities. LSD's certainly not obviously leagues ahead of them (or ahead of 2C-E, or various other suchlike).

 

[bluffythefluffy]

The LSD analogs are RCs too.

It's all "just" organic chemistry.

 

[Propyl Power]

i don't think the 'true psychedelic experience' can be 'ruined'... because it is immanent and always-already happening...

and as many others have pointed out, 'RC's' are probably as diverse as the people who take them, and lumping them all into one category tends to hinder understanding more than helping it.

i am very familiar with certain specific qualities of sterility, apathy, disconnection, autism, and negatively-connotated surgical precision that some synths may manifest at some times. and yet i often find them easier to take - compared with certain plant teachers, its like logging on the internet VS. getting in bed with someone... one of those two activities demands more receptivity, sensitivity and tenderness than the other...

( i'm not trying to demean any of the chemical purists out there, for me supporting a diversity of interesting perspectives is more important than being "right". )

i suppose the influx of various minor psychedelics could increase confusion about the heart essence of the psychedelic experience... but i doubt it... i see more positive consequences than negative... after all, there are people who have taken mushrooms or LSD hundreds of times and still completely missed the point! 8)

all that being said:

If you want an intense experience, take a high dose of 4-HO-MiPT. That stuff knocked me out of this universe - I had ego death on 28mg and I've had full blown ego death MAYBE three other times.

of the synthetics i have tried ((2cp/2ce/2cb/2ci/2ct2/2ct21/dob/dom/4acodmt/4homet/4acomipt/4homipt/5meomipt/amt/lsd)) 4-ho-mipt is the one i cherish most... incredibly pure and clear... a direct connection to one's own innate Godform...

 

[Psychonautical]

the true psychedelic experience the manifestation of something outside of the traditional.
weather you experience something religious completely sober, with no one around to witness it, it could be considered a schizophrenic episode, but to truly understand the nature of this reality you need to bare witness to the fact, that if it can happen to you, maybe, just maybe it can happen to someone else.

Psychedelic means mind manifesting.

I don't care if you are huffing cocaine, masturbating, smoking DMT, injecting heroin, going to church and praying real hard to some kind of jesus figure.

You have to understand that to manifest your mind outside of the mundane out of the machine. Especially in this day of age is psychedelic.

these research chemicals are every bit as psychedelic as any other drug available.

You may not consider all drugs psychedelic, but they are manifesting your mind to function on a different level, a different plane.

weather it is Lithium to control your moods. or oxycotin to control your pain, in the end its call connected to your brain.

If your life feels empty and you smoke some DMT and feel rejuvenated and enlivened with spirit again, then by all means, do it.

The world is falling apart around you and we all just need to accept that which makes us happy makes us happy.

Be it Religion, Travel, Drugs, a combo of the three if you are also rich.

You just fundementally need to see, and you need to understand that we are basically all just eyes in the same head.

Our experience our life experience is personal, it is between us and god,or us and whatever you believe in, Elves, Aliens, nothing, its all the same in the end, its where we began and its where we return to.

Our psychedelic experience, is between ourselves, and those we experience it with, and ultimately i believe drugs establish a strong connection between two people.

Be it Sid and Nancy, Alexander and Ann Shulgin, do what makes you happiest.

Nothing is ruining the psychedelic experience expect the closed minded, the scared, the fearfulm and the power and fury of the machine.

in terms of RC's

I've done 4-aco-dmt, AMT, 5-meo-dmt, 5-meo-mipt, 4-ho-dipt, 4-ho-dipt, AMT, 5-meo-AMT, N'N'DMT, LSD, 2c-e, 2c-i, 2c-c, 2c-t-7, DO* because of nasty blotters.
MDMA and Ketamine.

all of these different drugs have taught me many different things but in the end...
they all taught me the exact same thing, My brain, is just like my tounge, its covered in taste buds.

Some of these things are sweet, some of these things are SHIT, decide for yourself, and open as many of the windows as you possibly can. But just don't start a storm, or else you'll lose your home

 

[Xorkoth]

Great post Psychonautical. Your writing style is a little fragmented but if you read through it it's usually quite thoughtful and wise.

Here's my 2C-E report by the way JesusGreen: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=48983

 

[rincewindrocks]

nothing will compare to LSD or DMT. nuff said

actually, not nuff said

because you can have a psychedelic experience every bit as important on any number or RCs

one of my personal biggest breakthroughs was on 2c-i

 

[nopipesdfw]

I think RC's have ruined some of the psytrance scene, the music sounds more like RC's than LSD now if you know what I mean. More tense, dark and "hardcore speedy" sounding and less "trippy", "groovy" and shamanic.(LSD)

If anyone can get classic good shit, it's gotta be psytrance artists imo.

Also whateverlol , sorry that I and most others can't find a constant LSD source, DPT and 4-aco-dmt are excellent substitutes for me right now.

I prefer DMT to LSD very much anyways even though I like both a ton.

 

[exarkann]

um, why would being in control be a bad thing? I've never lost control during a trip and honestly wouldn't want to. my observations of others tell me that more times than not loosing control leads to Bad Ideas and Big Mistakes.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Um, LSD was a research chemical at one time too. The OP seems to have the misguided notion that RCs are some sort of related class of chemicals or something, the position is illogical.

I mean, is ETH-LAD somehow less useful than LSD just because it hasn't been as extensively used? Actually, I wonder if people of the anti-RC position would find pure 4-HO-DMT or mesclaine to be lacking as compared to their sacred traditional psychedelics.

 

[Jesusgreen]

Great post Psychonautical. Your writing style is a little fragmented but if you read through it it's usually quite thoughtful and wise.

Here's my 2C-E report by the way JesusGreen: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=48983

I'm wondering if the ROA has anything to do with it, I dosed a nice big dose of oral 2C-E last night and the trip did seem very deep, I didn't come close to ego loss but I was pleasantly surprised as my previous oral 2C-E experiences have been very much lacking in both the visual and mental departments.

I have to say the visuals with nasal and oral seem quite different from each other. While the similarities are there, with nasal I noticed more "overlays" over things, bright blue lines that covered my vision - I didn't get this at all with the oral dose, however I got some new visuals I've never had with 2C-E, such as rainbows appearing out of my curtains, the texture and colour of my walls constantly changing, and the most beautiful and intricate kaleidoscopic fractals when I closed my eyes, something which I've wanted from psychedelics but had not experienced until last night.

Anyway, I'm getting a bit off-topic, I think one of the biggest points I almost forgot to mention is not just that all psychedelics have equal merit but that it varies VASTLY from person to person. I'll use 2C-E and LSD as an example, as people often compare them (though I'm not sure that's the best idea since they're very different chemicals), I know some people who see 2C-E as LSD's little brother, nice, but lacking, or not as fun due to nausea etc. I also know people who find 2C-E and LSD to be equal, with each having some benefits and down-sides that the other doesn't have. Then I know some people who prefer 2C-E, who find it more deep, or more visual, or simply more enjoyable.

It all depends on you which drugs you'll enjoy or not. However don't discount pretty much the vast majority of psychedelics just because they're given a particular label that was also given to something you tried and didn't enjoy. If someone trips on LSD, Mushrooms, Cacti, DMT etc regularly, and then tries 2C-C for example, and doesn't like it - does that mean he won't like 2C-E? Does that mean he won't like 4-HO-MiPT? Or aMT? Or 4-AcO-DMT? No, of course not, it means he doesn't like 2C-C