Is MDMA as "harmless" as we wish to believe?

[MrSpeedyG]

MDMA in my eyes just seems unpredictable when it comes to after effects/neurotoxicity... Some people do run into severe issues after their first time and some can binge with redosing, meth/mdma combos every weekend for months and come out fine... however being mentally fine and suffering from cognitivie problems, memory etc etc doesnt equate to fine in my eyes.

I do agree that there is a lot of hype about MDMA being such a dangerous substance but that facts are real and it does have potential for problems, there is no doubt about that. Some people are simply more resilient, others are not so lucky.

Respect the chem, dont redose and keep cool.

Majority of problems that are a result of MDMA use is mostly from abuse (stupidity and just not knowing better but lets face it the average joe blow on the street knows nothing about how MDMA works etc) of it rather than one or a few times use in which most people suffer no ill effect at all but yes you get the occasional person comming on BL who ends up with serious aftereffects after using MDMA without abusing.

In regards to the post above this about the amygdala - MDMA is shown to influence it directly and could be neurotoxic to it (speculation!!!) theres a study they did where MDMA is shown to influence it and reduce fear/facial recognition so it could play a big role in after effects.

I was in denail about MDMAs potential consequenes of abuse, until my abuse caught up to me and kicked my ass for a good 5 months. BUT, that was from abuse (weekend use for 3 months straight) so I am not surprised in the least.

I will admit I am afraid to use MDMA again and if I do it will be a low dose without a redose and at an environment at home where temperature can be controlled, its a great drug in terms of the high I think its fantastically fucking epic but, my days of that are over and have moved on.

 

[cloudio]

No dude read it again, it was a total of 3 doses that night. That is my normal rolling night, 3 pills at a rave.

1st roll ever was 1 orange buddha, followed by 2 blue doves. Came back home still had the music going in my ears, woke up feeling fried as hell. Yea i feel pretty recovered from my rolling days, but i went through hell getting to recovery. MDMA = not worth it unless you keep it to like once or twice a year.

own damn fault shouldn't have taken so much... dont blame MDMA blame yourself

 

[poledriver]

No dude read it again, it was a total of 3 doses that night. That is my normal rolling night, 3 pills at a rave.

1st roll ever was 1 orange buddha, followed by 2 blue doves. Came back home still had the music going in my ears, woke up feeling fried as hell. Yea i feel pretty recovered from my rolling days, but i went through hell getting to recovery. MDMA = not worth it unless you keep it to like once or twice a year.

Says you. I've used MDMA for over 20 yrs and havent had any problems at all, I get worse problems after getting too drunk personally, I sometimes feel really shit and want to throw up and have headaches after a night on the piss, I also find alcohol much more addictive than MDMA.

Unlike you I never used to drop 3 pills though for a night out. Usually only 1 pill of good quality, I can't recall ever having more that 2 pills for an entire night. I like to take drugs very moderately as I find I dont build up a tolerance that way and also do not consume alot of other unknown drugs that might also be present in the pills and am much more unlikely to OD. Sometimes I would just have half a pill if they were known to be really strong, then a bit later on in the morning I might have the other half.

People who drop 3 or 5 pills for a night out are asking for trouble imo, they are either getting shit pills or have a tolerance and are taking too much, if you have 1 good strong pill and arent used to having 3 or pills a night it can be a very good time. dropping 3 pills (or more) in 1 night just seems irresponsible to me, like some people who cant stop at 3 or 6 beers, but go onto have the whole slab (24) etc. It just puts alot of strain on certain parts of your body or brain.

 

[Limey]

Mdma is less harmful than tobacco alcohol or marijuana. Methylone on the other hand which is what most of you idiots are taking thinking its MDMA is a different story. Methylone is carcinogenic (trust me I'm a scientist) 90s MDMA was 1000% better than the MDMA going around today. You would be absolutely twatted on half a 1989 dove (about 60mg) the synth today is different - wake the fuck up.

 

[poledriver]

^ True as fuck. I didn't start my use till 1991, but doves were about, and cali splits and purple specs and all sorts of other really strong pills I cant recall now. You just said what I was trying to say in 2 lines lol. Well done.

 

[Folley]

Mdma is less harmful than tobacco alcohol or marijuana. Methylone on the other hand which is what most of you idiots are taking thinking its MDMA is a different story. Methylone is carcinogenic (trust me I'm a scientist) 90s MDMA was 1000% better than the MDMA going around today. You would be absolutely twatted on half a 1989 dove (about 60mg) the synth today is different - wake the fuck up.

You don't make any sense dude.. you say most "MDMA" is methylone, then go on to say that the 90s MDMA was better. Yeah, no shit it's better than methylone lmao.. yet MDMA is still the same molecule it was back then, what exactly do you think changed between pure MDMA then and pure MDMA now?



Also, not that I don't want to trust your scholarly input.. but do you have a source stating methylone is carcinogenic? This is news to me, I'd like to see some more information on it for my own brain's sake

 

[Fresco]

I did enough ecstasy in the 90's to kill a small horse. I never had any lasting negative effects from it.

So either my MDMA was pure and todays stuff is garbage, or I'm just lucky

 

[Fresco]

Does anybody remember the red rocket ecstasy capsules that were floating around Toronto during the 1990's??

 

[poledriver]

You don't make any sense dude.. you say most "MDMA" is methylone, then go on to say that the 90s MDMA was better. Yeah, no shit it's better than methylone lmao.. yet MDMA is still the same molecule it was back then, what exactly do you think changed between pure MDMA then and pure MDMA now?

Alot of the worlds safrole came from Cambodia, it used to get used in massive amounts for MDMA production, then the Aus cops and some other fuckwit cops went over there cut and burned alot of it down and restricted how easy it was for so many people to get access to it for making MDMA, so then a new synth type had to be used to make MDMA as there wasnt so much safrole anymore, or something like that.

Alot of the world now gets shit pills with so many rookie money makers pressing whatever they can and stamping it with a trendy logo and a colour. People scoff them down and try and get that feeling. Back in the early 90's it wasnt so much about branding and colours, loads of pills back then used to have no stamp and no colour. No id at all.

I'd fucking hate to be growing up now and be a pill head with the amount of shit pills about, I guess it'd probably be ok in Holland or Amsterdam or something, but Aus and America seem to be getting so much shit and they have for ages.

I did enough ecstasy in the 90's to kill a small horse. I never had any lasting negative effects from it.

So either my MDMA was pure and todays stuff is garbage, or I'm just lucky

It was more pure back then, i'm the same as you and all my friends are too, all these whingers of today are getting fucked over with shit pills and powder thinking it's MDMA and wondering why they are getting negative effects.

Fuck methylone, I wouldnt touch that shit if you paid me.

 

[Folley]

Something like 1000 tons of safrole was just found in Europe, saying it's not an available precursor is a lie. Not to mention it doesn't matter what precursor is used to make MDMA, the end product is the same.



There's nothing wrong with methylone either, although it allegedly causes cancer.. lol. In fact it has a much lighter comedown compared to MDMA, I've been known to take it when I have plenty of MDA/MDMA around just because it's a lighter experience and not as harsh on the body. If you expect it to match MDMA, you will be disappointed. It's an alright chemical on it's own, though.

The big problem is with methylone being sold as MDMA. If you buy it as methylone (for like a quarter of the price) than it has some good potential

 

[poledriver]

Do you mean this one -

About 1,000 kilograms of MDMA and 18.5 tons of Ecstasy precursor, safrole, were among the products seized by authorities. Worth USD 1.75-billion

?

Not as much as -

One of the world's largest illegal stockpiles of the oil used as a precursor to manufacture ecstasy has gone up in flames in a joint operation between the Australian Federal Police and Cambodian authorities.
the AFP's Specialist Response Amphetamine Type Stimulants (SRATS) team began burning the 33-tonne stockpile of oil this week, 170 kilometres west of the capital Phnom Penh.

The AFP members transported specialist equipment from Australia to carry out the operation, including chemical suits, breathing apparatus, decontamination showers, air compressors, generators and gas monitoring and analysis equipment.

The burns of the 1278 oil barrels took several days and were conducted in the early morning and evening because of the sweltering conditions in Cambodia at this time of year.

Cambodian authorities have been working since 2002 to stem the distillation of safrole-rich oil and since that time have succeeded in detecting and dismantling more than 50 clandestine laboratories capable of producing up to 60 litres a day.

Worth $7.6 billion

 

[poledriver]

saying it's not an available precursor is a lie

Maybe, maybe not, I wouldn't know, I would gather that it is harder to get and use in the manufacture of MDMA for alot of manufacturer's in certain parts of the world though since all that happened, so some of the operations would obviously use other substances to press in their pills and possibly use any MDMA they had in the mix more sparingly. Thus creating more harm to users since they are possibly ingesting alot more 'other' substances than the MDMA that used to be made alot easier by some operations.

 

[MrSpeedyG]

Fucking all that safrole oil into the air... Safrole is a known carcinogen right?

Fucking peasants, could have buried the shit.

 

[Folley]

Do you mean this one -

?

Not as much as -

Yeah, that's my mistake.


There is no indication that that operation was caught with anything more than MDMA though, and with all that safrole what else are they going to be making on a large enough scale to cut hundreds of kilos? I think you're making things out to be worse than they actually are, sure the scene is bad right now.. but it's not dead, and there is still plenty of high quality MDMA to go around for those who care enough to find it



It's not like finding a needle in a haystack, more like a piece of string in a bowl of spaghetti

 

[JWills20]

Mdma is less harmful than tobacco alcohol or marijuana. Methylone on the other hand which is what most of you idiots are taking thinking its MDMA is a different story. Methylone is carcinogenic (trust me I'm a scientist) 90s MDMA was 1000% better than the MDMA going around today. You would be absolutely twatted on half a 1989 dove (about 60mg) the synth today is different - wake the fuck up.

I'm also a scientist (or at least studying to become one - currently starting my MSc). Could you provide the science why a differential route of synthesis would alter the MDMA and therefore affect the high and/or comedown? If you ask me, it doesn't matter how you arrive at pure MDMA - it will all be the same. Whether it was produced in the 90s, or today, it's still just MDMA.

 

[ShytK]

I am almost on my 4th month of recovery. Before yesterday I took a single 5HTP time release 100mg dose before bed thinking it can help me with my insomnia. I was dead wrong, all my head pressures from the first month of the hangover have come back, I had a very noticeable increase in anxiety, couldn't sleep all night, and in the day time suffered a mild panic attack. I was borderline dizzy/nauseous.

Can anyone tell me what this means exactly? The last time I took 5HTP before this was the first week when the hangover happened and back then I didn't notice much because I was already feeling like garbage. I was slowly making progress and now I feel like a single 5HTP dose almost put me back to where I was 3-4 months ago. Today my anxiety is still higher than it was a few days ago before I took the 5HTP.

I am so pissed at myself. But scientifally I wonder what this means and why the 5HTP did this. On another note, I was super hyper even without sleep for 24 hours after taking that 5HTP. Almost felt like I took a time release MDMA or something.

 

[jethro1000]

Agreed. Back in my MDMA abusing days I used to kid myself that MDMA isn't as harmless and go oh if worst comes to worst il hop on an SSRI... sounds all fine and dandy when your peaking. But after experiencing the effects that come from abusing MDMA, over 3 months every weekend consistent, used antioxidants and didn't redose however amphetamine was used in conjunction quite a few times, the damage really showed and I was left with serious depression as the major side along with anxiety and DP/DR. Ofcourse, not everyone is going to react the same to MDMA... I know people who abuse the shit out of it and are fine but on the other hand I have spoken to many ex-users who upon asking them said they did suffer effects from MDMA abuse.

Just because your typical pill head (weekend user sort of thing) that you will see out every weekend appears to be fine, mind you they are under the influence, I dare you to spend time with them sober and ask them if they experience depression/anxiety... I put my money on it they will say yes

Don't get me wrong, I fucking LOVE MDMA, most epic high in the world but I haven't touched the stuff in 8 months and I still don't feel comfortable going back to it which if I did will be responsible use (no redosing, antioxidants and hopefully in a cool environment etc etc) and certainly wouldn't roll more than once within a 3 month period.

Best thing you can do is understand the risks and practise responsible use with MDMA, I can't stress that anymore and this is from personal experience.

Did you recover? Are 100% normal again? How long did ur comedown took?

 

[F1n1shed]

Mdma is less harmful than tobacco alcohol or marijuana. Methylone on the other hand which is what most of you idiots are taking thinking its MDMA is a different story. Methylone is carcinogenic (trust me I'm a scientist) 90s MDMA was 1000% better than the MDMA going around today. You would be absolutely twatted on half a 1989 dove (about 60mg) the synth today is different - wake the fuck up.

Omg i am laughing, your stupidity is beyond fixable. The way you approach things is very elementary. Just because alcohol and tobacco claim more lives DOES'NT mean MDMA is less harmful. Do you know how many more people drink and smoke, and how much more often they do it? Have you factored that in....

MDMA is NOT less harmful than tobacco, tobacco doesn't cause the same form of brain damage MDMA does. To be fair you can't compare someone who smokes 1 pack a day to someone who rolls once every 2 months. If someone were to smoke 1 cigarette every 2 months, compared to someone rolling once every 2 months you really think the person smoking is causing more damage? Haven't thought of it like that have you?

*Edit*

 

[JWills20]

Omg i am laughing, your stupidity is beyond fixable. The way you approach things is very elementary. Just because alcohol and tobacco claim more lives DOES'NT mean MDMA is less harmful. Do you know how many more people drink and smoke, and how much more often they do it? Have you factored that in....

MDMA is NOT less harmful than tobacco, tobacco doesn't cause the same form of brain damage MDMA does. To be fair you can't compare someone who smokes 1 pack a day to someone who rolls once every 2 months. If someone were to smoke 1 cigarette every 2 months, compared to someone rolling once every 2 months you really think the person smoking is causing more damage? Haven't thought of it like that have you?

*Edit*

Have you ever considered that the stats about drugs really aren't that 'elementary.' Of course the statistics consider how many people actually take that drug. The ones reported by Professor Nutt suggest that MDMA, and numerous other drugs, produce less harm to the percentage of the population who take them to alcohol & tobacco. Have you also factored in the fact that people take alcohol & tobacco more often than MDMA users because of the addictive properties? Alcohol and tobacco are addictive drugs. MDMA is not. Hence why users of MDMA take it less frequently. Hence why some researchers believe it is safer the alcohol & tobacco.

So you've decided to determine harm quite simply as 'brain damage' and dismiss all the effects of tobacco on the cardiovascular system? Sure, tobacco doesn't have the potential for brain damage like MDMA. But then again MDMA won't cause a cascade of negative effects to your CV system, or increase your risk of cancer which tobacco will. It's also not psychologically addictive, unlike nicotine in tobacco. If you're going to compare the dangers of two drugs, you can't just pick and choose the negative of one and ignore the other.

 

[F1n1shed]

Have you ever considered that the stats about drugs really aren't that 'elementary.' Of course the statistics consider how many people actually take that drug. The ones reported by Professor Nutt suggest that MDMA, and numerous other drugs, produce less harm to the percentage of the population who take them to alcohol & tobacco. Have you also factored in the fact that people take alcohol & tobacco more often than MDMA users because of the addictive properties? Alcohol and tobacco are addictive drugs. MDMA is not. Hence why users of MDMA take it less frequently. Hence why some researchers believe it is safer the alcohol & tobacco.

So you've decided to determine harm quite simply as 'brain damage' and dismiss all the effects of tobacco on the cardiovascular system? Sure, tobacco doesn't have the potential for brain damage like MDMA. But then again MDMA won't cause a cascade of negative effects to your CV system, or increase your risk of cancer which tobacco will. It's also not psychologically addictive, unlike nicotine in tobacco. If you're going to compare the dangers of two drugs, you can't just pick and choose the negative of one and ignore the other.

Lol.... MDMA does damage your heart and organs you know. It is a stimulant, which are known to damage the cardio vascular system. Just because you don't notice it happening doesn't mean it isn't happening. Just thought i'd throw that in there.

And to the people who get addicted to cigs and alcohol, that is their own fault. I have used those off and on for years and never got addicted, MDMA caused me much more harm even though i used those 2 50 fold more than MD.