Is it OK to spank a child?

[Khadijah]

^^yea did you see the post that said that ''most parents who spank their kids do it when they are drunk or high" or some shit like that.....Seriously, they got the idea that some normal-ass child discipline is the same thing as child abuse and aint able to seperate those 2 in their mind.

there aint alot of people raised by old timers postin in this thread it seems like, and by 'old timers' i dont mean the actual age of the parents, but just the way they got raised, how their parents folks were. Like my grandparents were a fresh off the boat immigrant (my granddad) and the daughter of a immigrant (my grandma) . Born in the 1910's and 20's. granddad was in WW2 in the south pacific, the old fashioned tough guy with a pack of camels rolled up his t shirt sleeve, you know a rough type of guy, hard workin mechanic, lived/worked in paterson most of his life, a little bit of side work helpin out friends involved in the good ol "italian family bizness",you feel me? that type shit.

So my moms raised by that, she 50, now you compare it to somebody who got a younger mother or whose mother was raised by somebody from a more recent generation, which i get the feeling that alot of kids these days are....its just a different mentality...That really kinda old time style aint around no more. there is a lot more of this newer soft parenting where you treat a 3 year old havin a fuckin fit at the top of her lungs the same way you would treat a mature adult. and then if you dont , they say you some kinda barbarian savage cuz you would dare to give your kid a quick smack on the ass when he misbehaves.

I think either some of these folks either never been spanked so they have no idea and they think its some kinda terrible horrible awful thing, or they been abused so they cant see any kind of physical discipline as OK becuz like u said they will associate that with abuse forever.

and I aint so old yo, Im just 23. But to spare u the whole family tree life story, lol, my pops was raised by the same kinda ppl as my moms folks, grew up in new york in brooklyn and long island--so they put those very kinda oldschool values into me that i rarely ever see in kids my age. there is a definite divide in the generations when it comes to this type shit, for sure. Its weird to be so young but sometimes feel like i think like a old man when it comes to certain shit, lol but thats how i was raised.

dont get me wrong....alot of the 'old time values' are fucked up and not so great...But im just sayin when it come to spanking, aint nothin wrong with that but the newer generation sees it like some kinda awful terrible thing to do, like a "failure" of parenting....Man....yall woulda hated growin up in my family haha

my dad would spank me and my sister, sittin on the bunk bed, and my lil sister would always say "I CANT FEEL THAT!!" and "YOURE NOT HURTING MEEE!" and pretend she was so tough, and my dad would get so pissed and smack her harder hahaha, man, it just made me laugh out loud remembering that shit. But she was sorry when it was over tho, even tho we would both be there laughing.

now that i think of it, my youngest sister never got spanked, and she is a real spoiled ass little bitch sometimes. She shoulda caught a butt whuppin a couple times maybee it woulda took her down a few notches. outta all us she the one with the worst attitude for sure.

 

[rangrz]

That good parernting might land yo ass in a orange jump yo, if I see it up here in iglooistan

 

[Khadijah]

Ah, shut up rangrz. GB2 /b. Just playin.

For real tho, good thing I aint up in milkbagland, cuz I dont need nobody telling me about how giving my kid a lil whack on the butt is abuse. I know the damn difference and would never abuse my kid. But talk about puttin your values on somebody else. -- "I think that disciplining your child in ways that are not abuse is my bizness, and the govt's bizness, so I will get all up in your shit over it." That aint right.

Anyways, I got spanked all the time as a kid and i dont resent it, regret it, or have any problems about it. it didnt fuck me up, damage me, hurt me in no way other than a very, very temporary physical one, or wtfever else. Ask kids who been abused and they say i will never touch my kid. Ask kids who been spanked and they all say "Na, it didnt fuck me up, and Ima spank my kids too."

 

[Cyc]

Aw come on Lacey, it's not even born yet. Cut the kid some slack

 

[rangrz]

I'm assigned a duty, and I'll carry it out. I have discretion (I.e. I can use discretion to not hassle a drug user) But The assault section of the C.C.C. doesn't have exemption for spanking. I can use my discretion and decide to enforce that, and that's the government system put in place by you, the voter.

 

[Khadijah]

rangrz, no it aint. I dont live in canada. It aint got nothing to do with a system put in place by me the voter.

Anyways, I aint allowed to vote, so even if this was america you talkin about i still aint got no say in it.

 

[crunchymilk]

Can you teach a child discipline without the need of spanking? If so, why resort to it? There is no need to hit a child when there are other non violent alternatives.

 

[MynameisnotDeja]

I'm beginning to believe that BL is a weird statistical anomaly where most of its members have been surrounded by disproportionately well-behaved children.

Haha. My former stepson was sooooooooo NOT well behaved. lol Trust me. :D I don't know if any little kids are ever "well behaved" all of the time. Kids are little assholes. But that doesn't mean I think hitting them is okay.

God damn, some of yall are sooooo judgemental.

It's nothing personal against you or anyone else, but for me and probably a lot of other people, violence against children is something we take really seriously. I know you don't consider spanking "violence".. but we do. And that's the debate. But honestly, I like you and am not judging you in any sort of personal way. I know a lot of people believe in spanking, and I'd be hating on most of the world if I was going to be angry about it. All I can do is raise my own kids, if I ever have them, in the way I believe is best, and other than that live and let live.

there aint alot of people raised by old timers postin in this thread it seems like, and by 'old timers' i dont mean the actual age of the parents, but just the way they got raised, how their parents folks were.

Yeah, definitely not. For me, getting hit, period, I don't care what the reason or who is doing it, would be traumatic. There is not any way of getting hit that is okay or not abusive in my mind. Getting hit is getting hit. It seems to me that if the "spank" were so light as for me to not consider it violent, it would be so light the kid would barely even notice. So no matter what, to me, if the spanking is a punishment, it's abusive. If it doesn't hurt/shock the child what is the "punishment"?

Man....yall woulda hated growin up in my family haha

No offense or anything but yes... I would have. Although this:

my dad would spank me and my sister, sittin on the bunk bed, and my lil sister would always say "I CANT FEEL THAT!!" and "YOURE NOT HURTING MEEE!" and pretend she was so tough, and my dad would get so pissed and smack her harder hahaha, man, it just made me laugh out loud remembering that shit. But she was sorry when it was over tho, even tho we would both be there laughing.

...Sounds more like silliness than anything, lol. If you were laughing I can't imagine it was that bad. But I also don't see that as discipline either.

 

[LoveAlways]

This is what I go by, and yes, I will enforce that section.

Assault

265. (1) A person commits an assault when

(a) without the consent of another person, he applies force intentionally to that other person, directly or indirectly;

(b) he attempts or threatens, by an act or a gesture, to apply force to another person, if he has, or causes that other person to believe on reasonable grounds that he has, present ability to effect his purpose; or

(c) while openly wearing or carrying a weapon or an imitation thereof, he accosts or impedes another person or begs.

Application

(2) This section applies to all forms of assault, including sexual assault, sexual assault with a weapon, threats to a third party or causing bodily harm and aggravated sexual assault.

Consent

(3) For the purposes of this section, no consent is obtained where the complainant submits or does not resist by reason of

(a) the application of force to the complainant or to a person other than the complainant;

(b) threats or fear of the application of force to the complainant or to a person other than the complainant;

(c) fraud; or

(d) the exercise of authority. i.e. Parents authority still does not grant consent.

Accused's belief as to consent

(4) Where an accused alleges that he believed that the complainant consented to the conduct that is the subject-matter of the charge, a judge, if satisfied that there is sufficient evidence and that, if believed by the jury, the evidence would constitute a defence, shall instruct the jury, when reviewing all the evidence relating to the determination of the honesty of the accused's belief, to consider the presence or absence of reasonable grounds for that belief.

R.S., c. C-34, s. 244; 1974-75-76, c. 93, s. 21; 1980-81-82-83, c. 125, s. 19.

Assault

266. Every one who commits an assault is guilty of

(a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or

(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.

Based on what you highlighted, forcing a kid to sit in a corner for time out constitutes as "assault"

I wanna know how many of you actually have kids, not just babysat or watched them. I practically raised my two cousins, even lived with them for a while. But after having my own kids i see its not the same--at all. I care more about my kids will turn out.

 

[CuriousSunflower]

I respect other's opinions, just throwin in my two cents. I was beaten as a kid, with a belt, bruises and all...both parents were alcoholics, blah blah blah. Not a sympathy ploy, just background. I spanked my daughter, a few times it was in anger and over the line. I've regretted it since, and have apologized to her for those times. I still thought spanking was ok, within reason. When my granddaughter was born, spanking went out the window in my mind. One day she was particularly difficult, and I raised my hand to her. The look on her face stopped me cold....I saw this little person looking alllll the way up to this giant who was about to inflict pain on her. I can't explain all the things that went through my mind just then, but it changed my thought process. I have given her a lil swat on the butt a few times, but that image, eight years later, still haunts me. Now I jump back and forth...are we telling them its ok to hit? Ok for US to, but not them? How does that lil person feel? Blatant insolence from a teen almost seems like its too late, you've lost any control. I'm really on the fence, I don't think a swat is abuse, necessarily, but the nanny method of time out does work with the little ones Babble babble babble

 

[User Name Here]

I wrote a paper on this recently and cited several of the following studies.

From www.education.com:

"In surveys, 84% of American adults agree with the statement, "it is sometimes necessary to discipline a child with a good hard spanking" (Lehman, 1989; Straus, 1994). Sixty-five percent of parents report that they slap, hit, or spank their infants; 90% spank 3-year-olds; 35% are still hitting or spanking their adolescents at age 16 (Straus, 1994). One out of every four parents uses a belt, wooden paddle, or other object to spank his or her children (Straus & Stewart, 1999).

In the long run, spanking is not effective (Holden, 2002). When children are spanked, they eventually return to the misbehavior or replace it with other inappropriate behaviors. Hitting and spanking can cause children to fear their parents. If children try to run, or if they-strike back or talk back to their parents, the hitting usually becomes more severe. Although most spanking is not legally considered physically abusive, it is true that most physical abuse begins as physical punishment—punishment that then gets out of hand (Straus, 1994).

Another thing to consider is the message that spanking sends to children. Do we want them to learn that "might makes right" or that it's appropriate for larger people to use physical force to get smaller people to obey? Ironically, "hitting other children" is the misbehavior that parents most often identify as calling for a spanking (Lehman, 1989; Straus, 1994). What message does the child get when the parent slaps them on the hand (or swats them on the behind) and says, "Don't hit other people!"?

Studies show that children who are spanked more often are more physically violent and aggressive; are twice as likely to attack their siblings; are more likely to steal property, commit assaults, and commit other delinquent acts; and have lower moral standards and lower self-esteem (Straus, 1994; Straus, Sugarman, & Giles-Sims, 1997). These studies also show that adolescents who are hit by their parents are more likely to be depressed and have suicidal thoughts, and that these problems worsen the more often they are hit.

Analyzing the results of 88 different scientific studies, Gershoff (2002) found consistent correlations between physical punishment and increases in child aggression, delinquency, and antisocial behavior; increased rates of child abuse by parents; and poorer relationships between children and parents. Children whose parents physically punished them were less likely to internalize moral values, and later in life they were more likely to suffer from mental health problems such as low self-esteem, depression, and alcoholism. As adults they were more likely to be aggressive, commit crimes, and abuse their own children and spouses."

That is only a fraction of the entire article (which is extremely unbiased and based on scientific studies made by independent and reputable authors and groups). Eighty-eight studies is a lot of science backing up the idea that spanking a child leads to more negative behavior in the long run. With that said, I'm not insinuating that parents who choose to spank their children are bad in any way whatsoever, I am simply presenting a bunch of evidence gathered by notable authors (many of which are parents as well). In the end I believe it is up to the individual parent as to how they discipline their child. I don't think a spanking is abuse unless it leaves bruises or psychologically damages the child.

From www.allwoman.co.ke:

"Interestingly, economists suggest that spanking is associated with income – along the lines of: if you’re well off, you can cut your child’s allowance; if you’re poor, they probably don’t have one. Spanking however works equally well for both. This suggests that poorer parents, with fewer alternatives available, should spank their kids more – and according to Professor Bruce Weinberg of Ohio State University, US, they do – even across races and other cultural variables.

African parents for example, punish their children more than others: indeed, it would be hard to find an African or Afro-Caribbean family that doesn’t spank their children. It is socially accepted and commonplace. There are other cultural factors. Boys are punished more than girls. Single mothers spank a little less than other parents, as do older and better-educated parents. Bigger families spank less, but Weinberg’s study finds that the poor spank more even after you’ve accounted for all of these effects."

From the journal of Child Development:

"New research in the journal Child Development that followed a total of 750 children from ages 5 to 16 and looked at how parents' choices of discipline in childhood were tied to teenage behavior. Researchers found that the children whose parents put aside physical discipline over the years demonstrated much less antisocial behavior than those whose parents continued to use harsh or moderate physical discipline. The physically disciplined children also had much poorer relationships with their parents. Of course, there's no evidence that the lack of spanking caused the improved behavior."

When it all comes down to it, it is for every parent to decide how they personally want to discipline their child unless it involves outright abuse. Many countries are making spanking illegal. The following countries have outlawed it:

Sweden - illegal since 1979
Norway - illegal since 1983
Finland - illegal
Denmark - illegal
Italy - illegal since 2000
Israel - illegal since 2000
Spain - illegal since 2007
Portugal - illegal since 2007
Chile - illegal since 2007
Uruguay - illegal since 2007
Venezuela - illegal since 2007
Canada - restricted since 2004.
Romania - illegal
Bulgaria - illegal
Cyprus - illegal
Greece - illegal
Germany - illegal since 2000
New Zealand - illegal since 2007
Austria - illegal since 1989
Iceland - illegal
Ukraine - illegal
Hungary - illegal
Netherlands - illegal since 2007