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SLR Moderators: Senior Staff
is homosexuality a choice?
- Thread starter wesmdow
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ThaiDie4
Bluelighter
I don't think it's a choice. I think the environment can shape how much you explore or expose your true sexuality, but it doesn't determine what it is.
While I'd consider myself, in general, more attracted to men than women, I started having "girl-crushes" at very young age. The first one I remember was in 5th grade. Wayyyyyy before the stage in life where it's considered "cool" for chicks to be bisexual. But the first time I ever openly acted on any attractions for women was in college, because at that point it was socially acceptable (and actually encouraged, thanks to horny frat brothers
). That doesn't mean that I haven't had the same feelings for a long time, I just never acted on them until I was in the ideal environment.
While I'd consider myself, in general, more attracted to men than women, I started having "girl-crushes" at very young age. The first one I remember was in 5th grade. Wayyyyyy before the stage in life where it's considered "cool" for chicks to be bisexual. But the first time I ever openly acted on any attractions for women was in college, because at that point it was socially acceptable (and actually encouraged, thanks to horny frat brothers
). That doesn't mean that I haven't had the same feelings for a long time, I just never acted on them until I was in the ideal environment.
PriestTheyCalledHim
Bluelighter
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- Oct 7, 2005
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You should follow your own advice and learn about gay men. Don't read any "ex-gay" propaganda either.
The gay men I'm friends with came from two parent stable loving families and grew up in your typical "normal" middle class/upper middle class North American households.
These men are exactly like their heterosexual male peers and family members except that they're gay men and they're not sexually attracted to women and never have been.
Some of them have never had sex with a woman at all. Some tried sex with a woman once, or were even married to a woman because they grew up in the 60s back when being anything other than hetero/straight was seen as a choice, or mental illness and many saw Anita Bryant on TV when they were kids/teenagers which did not help things. Having sex with women didn't change their sexuality and they did this when they were closeted and did not want to accept the fact that they're gay men. They were not sexually attracted to these women at all and they didn't have lust or sexual attraction to any women and they didn't choose to be gay men.
Gay men do not have serious psychological issues just because they're monosexual and aren't sexually attracted to women at all. We're no longer living in the 50s, 60s, or 70s anymore where many people thought that being gay or something other than Hetero happened because of mental illness, an unstable home life, or someone made a choice to be bisexual or gay somehow.
Paulycodone
Bluelighter
I'm gay, but I had girlfriends in high school and went through a bisexual period lol. I always felt attracted to men more than women since I can remember, from a very early age. There are some environmental things that some people would say contributed to it, such as being raised by my mother, although I lived with my father throughout most of high school. I do have some "Daddy Issues" and of course I have some psychological problems, but they arent due to my sexuality. It took me years, but I finally accepted myself. My relationships with women were always better than men on a love/psychological level, but the men were better in bed (sorry for grossing you straight guys out lol). Anyway I gotta make some phone calls...have a GAY day! rofl
pLur4eVer<33
Greenlighter
i believe that everyone is bi to a certain degree, and its just a matter of which gender you like more
(if that makes any sense)
(if that makes any sense)
No surprise there, the typical middle class North American household is totally f'd up when it comes to sex. In fact our entire culture is very 'sex negative' and influenced by puritanical and Abrahemic roots. (I would venture to guess that your friends come from WASP families).
I don't see how they could possibly know they don't like sex with women then.
Give me a break. An ovulating, nubile woman is attractive to a high testosterone male and the only thing that can change that natural attraction is some serious psychological dysfunction. Nature dude. It's a beautiful thing.
You have zero proof for that. Proof of my ideas? uh, try the natural world, where there are very...very few isolated cases of exclusive homosexuality.
you do realize that homosexual is also "nature," or natural, right?
same way i feel about most of what you've said
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog.../could-homosexual-genes-be-naturally-selected
What you are witnessing is a struggle between the freedom to choose, and those who wish to reduce sexuality to partisan politics.
Sexuality is predominantly a choice, and that is what keeps it from being labeled an illness.
PriestTheyCalledHim
Bluelighter
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- 14,714
Actually some of my gay male friends were not raised in WASP families. Some are black and Latino and the ones that are white were either raised Catholic or were not brought up in a religious household at all and are Agnostic/Atheist. The ones that were raised in WASP families did not have issues about coming out as gay men and these men's families do accept them.
Gay men do not have issues with Testosterone levels, they're just not sexually attracted to women at all. You clearly don't know too many gay men if you think that they get turned on by women, that a woman sexually excites them and gives them lust like men do, and that they have a fluid sexuality like someone who is bisexual does who's actually at least sexually attracted to both men and women.
I've met gay men who have told me how they did try sex with a few women when they were younger but they could not get hard or aroused by the woman or any women at all. It's like how straight men and straight women don't get off to the same gender/sex.
One of my friends that's gay told me how the only way he got hard when he had sex with women was by always constantly fantasizing about men and he had to think about men constantly in order to get hard, stay hard, and even though he was having sex with a woman and fucking her or getting sucked by a woman he couldn't finish or ejaculate at all but this does not happen at all when he has sex with men.
Some of my gay male friends did try to change their sexuality like you claimed gay men can and it does not work that way. If it did these men would have been able to become completely heterosexual and would have been married with kids and even the ones that tried doing that being married to a woman didn't change the fact that they're gay/homosexual and not attracted to women at all.
How do you feel about Lesbians? They're not sexually attracted to men at all and they can ovulate. It doesn't mean they have issues because of their sexuality or because they don't have any sexual attraction to men at all.
Based on what you've been posting you clearly don't understand what it means to be a gay man or anything about the variations in human sexuality at all.
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college_dropout
Bluelighter
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- Dec 31, 2005
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- 2,170
Not to drift too far into the realm of solipsism, but how do you know your experience is generalisable to the rest of humanity?
I have had same sex experiences, like a large portion of humanity. I think that gives me perspective on sexuality.
Male testosterone levels have been on the wane on average. Men had higher average testosterone earlier in the century. Coincidence that homosexuality is on the increase?
I think homosexuality is simply a response to lack of women. In prisons, men will resort to having sex with men. Same with polygamous cultures where all the most powerful men take the best women.
Similarly homosexuality grew during the 60's, when sex negative feminism began to shape our culture.
Genetic determinism is the same argument Hitler made, the same argument racists make against other races.
Again, I look at the natural world, where VERY FEW (non-mammilian) animals display isolated (not cross species) examples of exclusive homosexuality.
If anything is genetically determined, it is fluid sexuality. Many, many species display fluid sexuality and bisexuality. Dogs when horny will hump anything that moves. I once had a female dog in heat literally climb into my sleeping bag with me and rub herself on me. I was tripping on 5meodipt at the time and it really freaked me out, that this dog was hitting on me, lol.
Male testosterone levels have been on the wane on average. Men had higher average testosterone earlier in the century. Coincidence that homosexuality is on the increase?
I think homosexuality is simply a response to lack of women. In prisons, men will resort to having sex with men. Same with polygamous cultures where all the most powerful men take the best women.
Similarly homosexuality grew during the 60's, when sex negative feminism began to shape our culture.
Genetic determinism is the same argument Hitler made, the same argument racists make against other races.
Again, I look at the natural world, where VERY FEW (non-mammilian) animals display isolated (not cross species) examples of exclusive homosexuality.
If anything is genetically determined, it is fluid sexuality. Many, many species display fluid sexuality and bisexuality. Dogs when horny will hump anything that moves. I once had a female dog in heat literally climb into my sleeping bag with me and rub herself on me. I was tripping on 5meodipt at the time and it really freaked me out, that this dog was hitting on me, lol.
DrunkardsDream
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2008
- Messages
- 684
Utter bullshit.
Just because some people and animals are bisexual that does not mean that everyone is or has a fluid sexuality or has the potential to somehow change their sexuality into something it's not.
Just look at yourself, you've forced yourself to have sex with men but you didn't like it at all and it just showed how you're heterosexual.
I'm a gay man and I've never been sexually attracted to any woman at all.
Gay or GLB liberation began before the 60s as Stonewall was not the first event that happened for gay men, bisexuals, and lesbians.
Being bisexual, gay, or lesbian did not "grow" during the 60s as people who are bisexual, gay, and lesbian have always been around as humans.
Oscar Wilde was bisexual and so was D.H. Lawrence and there were other people who were out as gay men back then like the artist Michelangelo.
GLB liberation in the 60s and 70s and even today is because people who are bisexual, gay, and lesbian want equal rights compared to the ones that Heterosexuals have that they take for granted.
People who are bisexual, gay, or lesbian are a small percent of the human population as most people are straight.
You're still going to find people who are gay or lesbian in all sorts of cultures and societies around the world.
ninjadanslarbretabar
Bluelighter
i like to stay open on this issue
i see it as genetic mostly, but i kinda wish i could see it in some way as a choice
but then who is you, what is a choice
i see it as genetic mostly, but i kinda wish i could see it in some way as a choice
but then who is you, what is a choice
CitioKid
Bluelighter
Why are people arguing with someone like this?
You could have sat back in the 50's and argued for hours with segregationists about how people of different races should be treated equally, and they'd just sit on their racists asses and think you're a fool.
Such people eventually become the minority as science comes into play.
So why give him any energy? let people like this dissolve away like a piece of clay.
college_dropout
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2005
- Messages
- 2,170
Me neither. In any case, I can't take them seriously anymore after that post.
Paulycodone
Bluelighter
i searched the forum for this and didnt find anything?!
anyway... im writing a paper for psychology about it. i dont know any gay people in real life, so i ask you here: is it a choice you made, or were you born that way?
*Born that way*, but I had intercourse with both sexes to be sure and also because I doubted myself and wanted to be straight lol.
Is ANY sexuality a choice?
When your growing up you really dont get presented with a list of choices and you (have) to pick one - were all different.
Were lead to belive that
IF your straight (guy) then you grow up thinking about women
IF your gay (guy) then you grow up thinking about men
IF your straight (women) then you grow up thinking about Men
IF your gay (Women) then you grow up thinking about Women
If your BI - then you think about a combination of the abov
Im sure that anyone in 'ANY' of the above sections could 'choose' not to shag his/her partner of choice but it really doesnt change what they were programmed to be.
When your growing up you really dont get presented with a list of choices and you (have) to pick one - were all different.
Were lead to belive that
IF your straight (guy) then you grow up thinking about women
IF your gay (guy) then you grow up thinking about men
IF your straight (women) then you grow up thinking about Men
IF your gay (Women) then you grow up thinking about Women
If your BI - then you think about a combination of the abov
Im sure that anyone in 'ANY' of the above sections could 'choose' not to shag his/her partner of choice but it really doesnt change what they were programmed to be.
Paulycodone
Bluelighter
That's all very true
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