is homosexuality a choice?

[hyroller]

Because society insists on gender division at a young age, almost everyone's first encounters (harmless exploration around <10 years old) begin with the same sex.....boys & girls are completely divided, and encouraged to almost fear one another in a sense. I think something just alights when you do sleep with the sex you really prefer (as a consenting teen/adult - we'll say 16+ or thereabouts) and you just side one way or the other. of course thoroughly bisexual individuals exist, it's just that more often than not they enter into heterosexual unions where that side of their sexuality is still accepted & encouraged, long-term.

You can't change the way you are wired deep within. But you can accept it. And there is absolutely no need to be ashamed of the things beyond language, reason and your own limits of control......unless you're a rapist, or a kiddy-diddler, then yeah - it's easy to understand why so many end up committing murder, because how could anyone comfortably go on living with fantasies like that? knowing they could act on them at any time....

But who gives a flying fuck if it isn't hurting anyone? Not me, that's who

 

[college_dropout]

Gender is bullshit to. The labels 'man' and 'woman' are limiting and totally conditioned by our psychosocial structures.

Have you read, 'As Nature Made Him: The Boy Who Was Raised As A Girl,' by John Colapinto? It's the ultimate case study on gender and nature/nurture and it doesn't really go in favour of what you're claiming.

 

[soahc]

You're not even sexually attracted to men or any man at all and you're only sexually attracted to and have sex with women.

NO. You do not tell me who I am attracted to and not attracted to. That is up to ME. This is exactly what I mean by sexual determinists and their bullshit. You are NOT the authority on who I am attracted to. I AM.

You don't even enjoy sex with men as you wrote that for you it was boring,

But whose to say that I can't enjoy sex with men? I reserve the right to enjoy sex with who and whatever I want when I want. Stop labeling me. I am free.

I never said that places like the supposed park where you've seen gay men are for bisexual and gay men only. However if it's a venue for discreet public sex between bisexual and gay men, it does beg the question what a homophobic straight guy like yourself was doing there?

I told you what I was doing there. I was enjoying nature. Is that okay? Is it okay to go to a park to appreciate trees and grass and natural things, rather than to practice sodomy and fellatio?

I used to be homeless and I actually lived in a park.

Like it or not, labels for sexual orientation and gender/sex are widely used by most people and they're not going anywhere anytime soon. You can try to live your life without them but it's impossible to. It has nothing to do with other people controlling other people or creating order in someone's life.

Then why do you insist on labeling me? That is a part of your mental illness, which is common in gay and straight people. They fear the unknown, they fear chaos, so they have to pigeon hole everybody into categories.

It's similar to how people fear the idea of anarchy, of creating their own future, rather than having it determined by genetics or government. Stop projecting your fears onto other people.

Why on earth would I limit myself to straight or gay? What is the benefit? Sometime int he future I might want to have sex with guys, or I might not. I reserve my right to do whatever I want.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Have you read, 'As Nature Made Him: The Boy Who Was Raised As A Girl,' by John Colapinto? It's the ultimate case study on gender and nature/nurture and it doesn't really go in favour of what you're claiming.

I haven't read that book but I'm familiar with what happened to the boy David Reimer and it's very sad.

 

[rollingstoned!]

I think there are 2 kinds of gay people. Those who are straight/bi and choose to be gay. And those who are genetically born gay.

Personally, I don't believe in the genetically gay shit because I'd think gays would like lesbians.

 

[DrunkardsDream]

NO. You do not tell me who I am attracted to and not attracted to. That is up to ME. This is exactly what I mean by sexual determinists and their bullshit. You are NOT the authority on who I am attracted to. I AM.

But whose to say that I can't enjoy sex with men? I reserve the right to enjoy sex with who and whatever I want when I want. Stop labeling me. I am free.

I told you what I was doing there. I was enjoying nature. Is that okay? Is it okay to go to a park to appreciate trees and grass and natural things, rather than to practice sodomy and fellatio?

I used to be homeless and I actually lived in a park.

Then why do you insist on labeling me? That is a part of your mental illness, which is common in gay and straight people. They fear the unknown, they fear chaos, so they have to pigeon hole everybody into categories.

It's similar to how people fear the idea of anarchy, of creating their own future, rather than having it determined by genetics or government. Stop projecting your fears onto other people.

Why on earth would I limit myself to straight or gay? What is the benefit? Sometime int he future I might want to have sex with guys, or I might not. I reserve my right to do whatever I want.

You really should research human sexuality more. It does not work that way.

You can have sex with all the men in the world or nobody but men but you're always going to be heterosexual and only sexually attracted to women and this is based on your own admission and what you have written.

You yourself have written how you're not sexually attracted to men at all and how sex with men or a man that you had was boring to you, and how you wouldn't want to waste a minute doing anything but pursuing women, that makes you hetero/straight.

If sexuality was really that fluid for you-you'd easily be able to go from being hetero/straight to actually being bisexual or pansexual when you are neither.

Yes there are people who really are bisexual/pansexual or have a fluid sexuality, but you're not one of them because you're hetero/straight.

It's like how gay men like myself and others who have posted to this thread theoretically could have sex with a woman or if we have in the past it does not make us bisexual or pansexual at all because we're homosexual/gay and are always only going to be attracted to the same sex/gender only.

I do not fear anarchy at all and I'm not projecting my fears onto anyone. I'm not mentally ill either.

Sorry to hear that you were homeless but interacting with a gay man in public or even having him proposition you for sex or flirting with you if it's a park where public sex tends to go on between bisexual and gay men is not being predatory at all.

 

[User Name Here]

homo`s adopting kids is where i draw the line. they can do what they like as far as it doesnt encroach upon others boundaries, but adoption is just plain sick.

I know this is a late response but here goes:

Actually, several studies done by well-respected universities and institutes have shown that children raised by same sex couples are just as well-rounded as "normal" children are. They've also discovered that these children tend to be more intelligent, open-minded (that's a given), and successful once they become adults as their parents tend to focus on raising them in an open-minded yet structured way.

If anything, I see it like this: There are way too many children out there waiting to be adopted by people who would give the world for their own child. Staving off an adoption--the chance for a child to end up in a loving home--simply because the couple in question are gay would be a gross injustice to any child without a proper home. No matter how you look at it, a stable home definitely beats being passed around from foster home to foster home or being brought up in a shitty, state-run orphanage.

Long story short: It is a proven fact at this point that children raised by same sex couples end up being just as successful and well adapted as other children are. There's no arguing multiple studies that have shown this. That's not to say you can't have your opinion, but calling adoption by a gay couple "sick" is a bit crass and makes a person sound pretty uneducated and homophobic, not to mention it's also pretty offensive.

I wish people would be a bit more tactful and choose their words more wisely. There's nothing wrong with having a differing opinion (such as yours) but that opinion becomes meaningless to me the moment a person starts pulling out offensive remarks and sounding like a jackass.

 

[firebrand]

let me tell you something; to remove any chance for a child to have 2 gender parenting is sick. studies ? hearsay... if you really believe that, you probably think santa exists too. what about children that come from broken homes ? and thats a good way of describing this filth. broken.

and im not going to get in to "in depth" arguments (because there is none) about it when idiots throw out the homophobe arrow. like i said, another "race card".

 

[college_dropout]

let me tell you something; to remove any chance for a child to have 2 gender parenting is sick. studies ? hearsay... if you really believe that, you probably think santa exists too. what about children that come from broken homes ? and thats a good way of describing this filth. broken.

Great work Firebrand. Keep up your noble fight for keeping kids in foster homes and under the care of the state and out of loving homes. People like you would be fun to just laugh at if the consequences weren't so fucking tragic.

 

[college_dropout]

and im not going to get in to "in depth" arguments (because there is none) about it when idiots throw out the homophobe arrow. like i said, another "race card".

And you have said nothing in your time here that's given even the slightest appearance that you are accepting of gay people, so if you're not anti-gay/homophobic/averse to homosexuality then what are you?

 

[gorgoroth]

I've come out of the closet recently, it is VERY hard to deal with these feelings I've surpressed my whole life .. definitely NOT a choice!!
who'd choose this!?

 

[†∆†]

I think there are 2 kinds of gay people. Those who are straight/bi and choose to be gay. And those who are genetically born gay.

Personally, I don't believe in the genetically gay shit because I'd think gays would like lesbians.

...um...seriously?

 

[rollingstoned!]

I take back the "genetically gay shit". My bad. I guess I'm confused what it would be like to see a bunch of gay men and gay women together on LSD, MDMA, and Viagra. I truly think the opposite sexes would all bang hardcore.

My theory is that there are one of two basic forms of energy in us, lets call them op and po. Po people are attracted to other po people, however, po people can be male or female. Op people are attracted to other Op people. Once again Op people can be male or female, black, white, asian, whatever, just like the po people.

If two Ops of them same sex find qualities in each other that are completely compatiable, then the fact that they are the same sex should not be a barrier for marriage.

Sometimes a Po and an Op might accept the fact that they are not compatiable, and base a marriage of the subjective fun of incompatiability (once again, it doesn't matter if they are both of the same sex, or of different sex).

I love my crazy theories.

 

[wtblife]

Rollingstoned, I actually think your theory is kinda right, but I don't really look at it quite like that lol. I consider myself gay, but I can often click with girls too and wouldn't mind being with one even though I'm much more attracted to the male body. I mean I often find myself attracted to them emotionally and these girls are always more than just nice to look at so yeah...

 

[firebrand]

Great work Firebrand. Keep up your noble fight for keeping kids in foster homes and under the care of the state and out of loving homes. People like you would be fun to just laugh at if the consequences weren't so fucking tragic.

say all the state homes were run by gays. would that satisfy you ? because then, obviously, there would be no harm done to the children, simply because gays can do no wrong. what you are stating is that gays are free of any kind of that behaviour.

there ALL loving homes, right ? and of course, the majority of hetero couples are inherently violent.

i guess the differance is, hetero people dont center thier lives around thier sexuality like gays do(pride?), so they dont open CHILDREN up to sexual indoctrination.

remember, we are all secretly gay, arent we?

 

[firebrand]

And you have said nothing in your time here that's given even the slightest appearance that you are accepting of gay people, so if you're not anti-gay/homophobic/averse to homosexuality then what are you?

what am i ? well, your the smart(arse)intellectual homo...

i am a man. and if you read in to the word "marriage" youll find out what it ia all about. try building a home with all male or all female joints and see what happens.

there you go, in child like terms i think even you cna understand.

 

[college_dropout]

say all the state homes were run by gays. would that satisfy you ? because then, obviously, there would be no harm done to the children, simply because gays can do no wrong. what you are stating is that gays are free of any kind of that behaviour.

there ALL loving homes, right ? and of course, the majority of hetero couples are inherently violent.

i guess the differance is, hetero people dont center thier lives around thier sexuality like gays do(pride?), so they dont open CHILDREN up to sexual indoctrination.

remember, we are all secretly gay, arent we?

Straw man. - "A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position."

 

[5aday]

I'm gay and it really saddens me that people still think being gay is a choice. Why would I choose to be actively discriminated against? From a logical perspective it makes absolutely no sense. As far as gay marriage and adoption goes, I really don't understand what the big deal is.

To all of those that believe gays shouldn't get married, or shouldn't adopt: How do these issues affect you directly? Allowing me to have the same rights that you take for granted affects me and my partner, no one else. As far as the religious factor in this and how I'm apparently "destroying the sacred bond of marriage", almost half of all marriages end in divorce anyway, it's really not that sacred. I don't even care if you call it marriage I just want the same rights that heterosexual couples enjoy.

As far as gay adoption goes, as stated a few posts above me, children raised by gay parents don't end up any different then those raised by straight ones, and children raised by gay parents might even be a little bit better off. I can't believe people would really rather have a child remain an orphan or suffer through a series of foster parents, than live with two stable and caring parents who happen to both be of the same gender.

 

[firebrand]

Straw man. - "A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position."

absolute bollocks! and just what i expected, the "straw man"... its just another cheap "out" that the gays use when there flimsy baseless argument ends.

its yet another form of homophobia in reverse. well done. you make yourself look more discrminitive by the post and it holds forth my argument that gays are even more phobic and or discriminitive than normal people.

have i tried being a normal person in gay social circles ? believe it or not, yes. and that when i lost respect for them, because unless they though that they could "turn" me, they dont want you to hang around.

 

[firebrand]

I'm gay and it really saddens me that people still think being gay is a choice. Why would I choose to be actively discriminated against? From a logical perspective it makes absolutely no sense. As far as gay marriage and adoption goes, I really don't understand what the big deal is.

To all of those that believe gays shouldn't get married, or shouldn't adopt: How do these issues affect you directly? Allowing me to have the same rights that you take for granted affects me and my partner, no one else. As far as the religious factor in this and how I'm apparently "destroying the sacred bond of marriage", almost half of all marriages end in divorce anyway, it's really not that sacred. I don't even care if you call it marriage I just want the same rights that heterosexual couples enjoy.

As far as gay adoption goes, as stated a few posts above me, children raised by gay parents don't end up any different then those raised by straight ones, and children raised by gay parents might even be a little bit better off. I can't believe people would really rather have a child remain an orphan or suffer through a series of foster parents, than live with two stable and caring parents who happen to both be of the same gender.

think of the word "marriage"... thats two pieces of differing shapes or forms coming together. like in carpentry. male and female joints. two male joints dont fit, same for two female joints. in regards to "rights", they arent "rights" anyway, they are legalities. dont bullshit me that gays get treated any differantly. all they have to do is sign a piece of paper to say that they leave thier money to someone else. share your super, your house, whatever.

anyway, im not beating my head in to a brick wall on that one. as for this bullshit that the child may end up better off, you may be able to kid yourself easy, but...

lets look at homes where the mother or father are absent. its caused a lot of dis-enfranchised young. imagine when the child gets to the age to form thier own opinions, growing out of the unconditional love age and finds that they have been cheated outright by 2 selfish people who have decided that they should miss out on either father or motherhood.

in generations to come, this will manifest itself socially in a way which will cause MAJOR discord. dont believe me ? just watch... hopefully, i wont be around to see the fall out.