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is homosexuality a choice?

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Yeah it's a choice. I'm pansexual/bisexual and I'm definitely the one making the choice... I mean being straight is a choice too. I was 100% heterosexual the first 18 years of my life (no physical contact I mean), but then I realized, hey, gay's ok too! I feel like my own sexuality, and most other's, is rather fluid. I mean yeah people have different affinities for different orientations, but at the end of the day I believe in will. If I had to adapt my sexuality for self-preservation, I most certainly could.
 
might i suggest Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity by Bruce Bagemihl, Ph.D.

a recent article of interest:

In greylag geese, nearly a fifth of all long-term couples are composed of two males. They're not alone: More than 130 bird species are known to engage in homosexual behavior at least occasionally, a fact that has puzzled scientists.
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and a less recent but still informative article:

In the Laysan albatross, for example, previous research has shown that a third of all bonded pairs in a Hawaii colony are two females. This behavior helps the birds, whose colony has far more females than males, by allowing them to share parenting responsibilities. It also gives more stability to the offspring of males, already bonded to a female, who mate opportunistically with females in a same-sex couple. Such a dynamic, then may force gradual changes in behavior and even physical appearance of the birds, the authors note.

...
His work has shown that in female macaque monkeys at least, same-sex sexual behavior doesn't seem to have any adaptational advantage, which "doesn't jibe with how people want to think about it," he says. But, he concludes, "You can't impose your perspective on the species you're studying. Attempt to understand the world on its own terms."
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alt 14 said:
Yeah it's a choice. I'm pansexual/bisexual and I'm definitely the one making the choice... I mean being straight is a choice too. I was 100% heterosexual the first 18 years of my life (no physical contact I mean), but then I realized, hey, gay's ok too! I feel like my own sexuality, and most other's, is rather fluid. I mean yeah people have different affinities for different orientations, but at the end of the day I believe in will. If I had to adapt my sexuality for self-preservation, I most certainly could.
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I agree with this. The sensory nerves at the tip of my penis could be stimulated by just about anything if I allowed them too. Similarly, I'm sure I could reach orgasm through prostate stimulation.

But I only have sex with women simply because I like to keep things simple. I'd rather expend all my energy perusing beautiful women than even spend a moment with men. I like the way women keep me guessing and pose a challenge.

I have no problem with guys who prefer guys, it's mainly the predatory, aggressive gay men that I don't like. The effeminate ones are funny and lively.
 
soahc said:
I agree with this. The sensory nerves at the tip of my penis could be stimulated by just about anything if I allowed them too. Similarly, I'm sure I could reach orgasm through prostate stimulation.

But I only have sex with women simply because I like to keep things simple. I'd rather expend all my energy perusing beautiful women than even spend a moment with men. I like the way women keep me guessing and pose a challenge.

I have no problem with guys who prefer guys, it's mainly the predatory, aggressive gay men that I don't like. The effeminate ones are funny and lively.
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Just because you could theoretically get aroused by a man that doesn't mean that you're anything but heterosexual from what you've said.

Not all gay and bisexual men even have anal sex.

What's a "predatory aggressive gay man"? Don't look now but your homophobia is showing.

Why not have sex with a man, see what it's like and report back here on this thread? You can even have sex with a feminine queen who is funny and lively!
 
DrunkardsDream said:
Just because you could theoretically get aroused by a man that doesn't mean that you're anything but heterosexual from what you've said.
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Why do you feel so compelled to label me? Why do you need to put people in categories?



What's a "predatory aggressive gay man"? Don't look now but your homophobia is showing.
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When I am walking through a city park, enjoying nature, and a gay man sees me and follows me, I would consider this predatory.

Why not have sex with a man, see what it's like and report back here on this thread? You can even have sex with a feminine queen who is funny and lively!
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Why do you assume I have never fooled around with guys?

Just because a dog humps your leg, does that mean he is queer for human legs? Or just that he is horny?
 
alt 14 said:
Yeah it's a choice. I'm pansexual/bisexual and I'm definitely the one making the choice... I mean being straight is a choice too. I was 100% heterosexual the first 18 years of my life (no physical contact I mean), but then I realized, hey, gay's ok too! I feel like my own sexuality, and most other's, is rather fluid. I mean yeah people have different affinities for different orientations, but at the end of the day I believe in will. If I had to adapt my sexuality for self-preservation, I most certainly could.
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Yes there's a factor of will to act on your sexuality but this does not mean that your sexuality is somehow a personal choice or that you can pick, choose, and change your sexuality.

I could theoretically stay celibate and never have sex with anyone and I'd still only be sexually attracted to men.

This does not mean that I somehow decided to be a gay man. Nobody that is hetero or straight somehow decides to be heterosexual or straight.

My friends that are bisexual can at times prefer one gender over the other but they do not choose this and sometimes their sexual attractions can shift very rapidly out of nowhere.

You might have thought that you were somehow straight/hetero or self identified as straight/hetero but that does not mean that you actually were or are straight/hetero. If you really were hetero/straight you never would have had a shift in your sexuality and been attracted to both sexes since you're bisexual.

I've met bisexuals who did at first come out as being straight, gay or lesbian but this does not mean that they were or are these orientations.
 
soahc said:
Why do you feel so compelled to label me? Why do you need to put people in categories?

When I am walking through a city park, enjoying nature, and a gay man sees me and follows me, I would consider this predatory.

Why do you assume I have never fooled around with guys?

Just because a dog humps your leg, does that mean he is queer for human legs? Or just that he is horny?
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I don't need to put people into categories but I'm arguing that not everyone's sexuality is fluid. My sexuality is not fluid, and it is never going to be.

You're claiming that people who are monosexual or gay/lesbian and heterosexual can somehow easily change their sexuality and that they have a sexuality that's fluid when it does not work this way.

Maybe the gay man is just enjoying the park too? Or going about his day?

Unless he's intent on doing something highly illegal, non-consensual and won't take no thanks for an answer, just following someone in a public park is a far cry from being "predatory".

Sorry I've seen this sort of argument before and it does show people's homophobia. From time to time yes straight men do get sexually propositioned by gay and bisexual men in public areas. Who cares? Heterosexual society will not tolerate the possibility that a straight man might be propositioned by gay and bisexual men in certain public areas yet society will tolerate that a bisexual or gay man could be beaten up or bashed by a straight man or a group of straight men who consider him to be "predatory" just because he's flirting with the man/men or they are in the same area.

If the park if a public sex place for gay and bisexual men, what are you doing there?

If you've had sex with a man how was it for you? What did you do with him?
 
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LOL @ Soahc's testosterone hypothesis.

I mean I really don't want to belittle you, but one ought to know a thing or two about a scientific term (hormones, etc) before using it to produce a most ridiculously shallow hypothesis as "not enough testosterone."

IMO and IME, gay sex is (in the English sens of the expression) as testosterone-filled (if not more so) than Mixed Martial Arts matches.

I've taken no less than 30 different psychedelics (and, perhaps more importantly, stopped taking them once I've learnt the lesson they taught me). And while I am first to admit that I'm not a paragon of mental health, I do not see my utter inability to be attracted to women as being in any way related to mental health issues.

You ought to get off that high horse, IMO.
 
Btw, to clarify: I actually do not doubt one bit that hormones (ALL hormones) play a significant (if not the most significant) role in sexual orientation. But it is nowhere near as simple as what you propose.

It is interesting how aerial and charlatan the way a lot of ideas that queers seem to have these days. I blame it on Academic peer-pressure to be deconstructionist for no good reason.
 
homophobia is in the eye of the beholder. they play it a la the "race card". its as though you cant say a thing that is anywhere near even non-pro homo, let alone being anti.

the need to get over ones self is needed here.
 
soahc said:
'Occasional homosexual behavior' is a far cry from exclusive homosexuality.
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a far cry? really? one would think animals have a stronger instinct to reproduce than entertain sexual preference. the fact that so few percentages participate in same-sex pairing at all (i.e. homosexuality amongst animals is sometimes seen in certain environmental circumstance, like higher female to male ratios in colonies, but whether an animal engages in it seems to be dependent on a select few individual animal’s innate urges), illustrates my initial point which is that homosexuality occurs in nature as it occurs in people and therefore attraction is a biological phenomenon not a conscious decision.

and to answer your question, i believe European Polecats also engage in exclusive homosexuality.

gender-preference is akin to whether you’re born right- or left-handed. as a right-handed individual, i can choose to write with my left-hand but it just doesn't feel natural.
 
DrunkardsDream said:
From time to time yes straight men do get sexually propositioned by gay and bisexual men in public areas. Who cares? Heterosexual society will not tolerate the possibility that a straight man might be propositioned by gay and bisexual men in certain public areas yet society will tolerate that a bisexual or gay man could be beaten up or bashed by a straight man or a group of straight men who consider him to be "predatory" just because he's flirting with the man/men or they are in the same area.
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Society will tolerate a woman who beats up a straight man who approaches her, but if I beat up a gay man who approaches me I am a violent 'homophobe'.


If the park if a public sex place for gay and bisexual men, what are you doing there?
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'For gay and bisexual men'?! Bullshit. The park is for me to enjoy nature. Is that okay? Do you have an appreciation for nature? Like, the nature where the vast majority of animals are hetero or bi but NOT homosexual?

If you've had sex with a man how was it for you? What did you do with him?
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It was boring.
 
Fawkes said:
a far cry? really? one would think animals have a stronger instinct to reproduce than entertain sexual preference. the fact that so few percentages participate in same-sex pairing at all (i.e. homosexuality amongst animals is sometimes seen in certain environmental circumstance, like higher female to male ratios in colonies, but whether an animal engages in it seems to be dependent on a select few individual animal’s innate urges), illustrates my initial point which is that homosexuality occurs in nature as it occurs in people and therefore attraction is a biological phenomenon not a conscious decision.
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So environment has NO effect on sexuality? HAHAHA

and to answer your question, i believe European Polecats also engage in exclusive homosexuality.
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Species wide behavior? Or an isolated incident (like a pair in a zoo?).

gender-preference is akin to whether you’re born right- or left-handed. as a right-handed individual, i can choose to write with my left-hand but it just doesn't feel natural.
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There is no proof for that whatsoever.
 
People often wonder why I am so interested in sexuality, and I think it may help to clarify.

I study the ideas of Freud and Reich. Basically I think all human behavior is related to sexual urges.

I speak out against monosexual dogma and labelling because I believe labels are limiting. I believe in freedom.

I believe all nouns are verbs.

In order to increase my freedom, I say I am pansexual. I fuck who and whatever I can and want to fuck. Period.

Gender is bullshit to. The labels 'man' and 'woman' are limiting and totally conditioned by our psychosocial structures.

This and every time someone has called me gay or straight or bisexual it has been from someone who is trying to dominate me. Trying to pigeon hole me into some meaningless noun to gain control over me.

Well news flash: order is where you create it. If you call yourself gay, that is because you are creating order in your life.

Take responsibility for your own order and stop trying to make your truth values other people's truth values.




Fuck labels.
 
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^ i'm not sure what that post has to do with the topic really; in fact, i'm having difficulty understanding your argument in general and how it relates to whether or not you believe homosexuality is a choice.

soahc said:
So environment has NO effect on sexuality? HAHAHA
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you misunderstood me. i said it CAN, but certainly not always.

Species wide behavior? Or an isolated incident (like a pair in a zoo?).
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to my knowledge, instances occurred in their natural habitat. a study was completed by Thierry Lodé titled, "La guerre des sexes chez les animaux".

There is no proof for that whatsoever.
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i wasn't suggesting there was. :) i'm drawing from a personal intuition.
 
soahc said:
People often wonder why I am so interested in sexuality, and I think it may help to clarify.

I study the ideas of Freud and Reich. Basically I think all human behavior is related to sexual urges.

I speak out against monosexual dogma and labelling because I believe labels are limiting. I believe in freedom.

I believe all nouns are verbs.

In order to increase my freedom, I say I am pansexual. I fuck who and whatever I can and want to fuck. Period.

Gender is bullshit to. The labels 'man' and 'woman' are limiting and totally conditioned by our psychosocial structures.

This and every time someone has called me gay or straight or bisexual it has been from someone who is trying to dominate me. Trying to pigeon hole me into some meaningless noun to gain control over me.

Well news flash: order is where you create it. If you call yourself gay, that is because you are creating order in your life.

Take responsibility for your own order and stop trying to make your truth values other people's truth values.

Fuck labels.

Society will tolerate a woman who beats up a straight man who approaches her, but if I beat up a gay man who approaches me I am a violent 'homophobe'.

'For gay and bisexual men'?! Bullshit. The park is for me to enjoy nature. Is that okay? Do you have an appreciation for nature? Like, the nature where the vast majority of animals are hetero or bi but NOT homosexual?

It (sex with a man) was boring.
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You're not even sexually attracted to men or any man at all and you're only sexually attracted to and have sex with women.

You don't even enjoy sex with men as you wrote that for you it was boring, so you're not bisexual/pansexual- as bisexual and pansexual mean basically the same thing and I've seen them interchanged and used by people who identify as bisexual or both bisexual/pansexual, or gay.

I never said that places like the supposed park where you've seen gay men are for bisexual and gay men only. However if it's a venue for discreet public sex between bisexual and gay men, it does beg the question what a homophobic straight guy like yourself was doing there?

Like it or not, labels for sexual orientation and gender/sex are widely used by most people and they're not going anywhere anytime soon. You can try to live your life without them but it's impossible to. It has nothing to do with other people controlling other people or creating order in someone's life.
 
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