is homosexuality a choice?

[Fausty]

Can any of the gays explain what evolutionary advantage a gay gene or genes would have and why it wouldn't be selected out during the natural discourse of gays not having sex with females over hundreds of thousands of years?

I don't know if "the gays" can provide such explanations, but I do believe the evolutionary biologists can. If that is acceptable - irrespective of their personal sexual orientation - I can point you at some fairly current theoretical work in that area.

Regarding animals displaying gay behaviour...there is a difference as these animals still have sex with females and it may only be a dominance display, exclusively gay behaviour is something that is uniquely human.

I'd really suggest you actually review the literature before making statements like that. Unfortunately, both of your assertions are flat-out wrong. Even a cursory perusal of Biological Exuberance, in addition to other more recent research summaries by behavioral ethologists, provides a veritable laundry list of hundreds of examples of species in which exclusive same-sex bonds are fundamental elements of the social matrix.

Personally I believe homosexuality isn't a choice just like narcissism isn't a choice. During their brain's development during childhood they may not get all the right sex hormones at the right times (testosterone plays and important part in developing the male brain) and this then coupled with say, a weak or no father figure (a childhood trigger experience or experiences that may be undetermined at this time) may give the complement of forces that result in a homosexual end product. Most social theorists see childhood elements as the largest contributing factors to homosexuality. Often they examine childhood play patterns, early peer interactions and relations, differences in parental behavior toward male and female children, and the role of gender constancy in the household.

Could you cite a reference to any legitimate "social theorist" who makes this argument? Because, as far as I know, the quantitative, cross-cultural data have so comprehensively obliterated these old expectations that finding such a fossil would be almost fantastical. Your "theory" is perhaps enlightening in how it illustrates your own preconceptions and assumptions about sexuality, but it's flat-out wrong when compared with actual, physical reality.

There's nothing wrong with having kooky theories - some people believe the earth is flat, others that a giant superbeing in the sky whispers in their ears on Sunday. Such beliefs should not be confused, however, with models which have any ability to explain events here, in the real world of cause and effect.

Peace,

Fausty

 

[I_Stay_Dead]

News from the West provides the evidence that a disproportionate number of the most radical elements in the militant homosexual rights lobby are of Jewish origin. . . .


Here is an exhaustive list proving, once and for all, that the radical homosexual movement in the United States is a Jewish movement. Jews created it and run it from top to bottom. They are pushing the perversion and degeneracy that is spreading disease, sin and sickness through America like a wildfire.

-The West



Larry Kramer -- co-founder of "Act Up," a homosexual/AIDS activist organization; co-founder of the Gay Men's Health Crisis

Alan Klein -- co-founder of group ACT UP, co-founder of group Queer Nation, National Communications Director and chief spokesperson for the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation [GLAAD]. Klein also co-founded the successful multimedia campaign STOPDRLAURA.COM

Arnie Kantrowitz -- co-founder of the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation [GLAAD].

Jonathan D. Katz -- founded and chairs the Harvey Milk Institute, the largest queer studies institute in the world. A long time queer political activist, was a co-founder of Queer Nation, [the key San Francisco branch].

Harvey Fierstein -- film actor [Mrs. Doubtfire]; well-known gay activist.

Moisés Kaufman -- playwright and film director [The Laramie Project].

Israel Fishman -- founder of the Gay Liberation Caucus in 1970 [now known as the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgendered Round Table of the American Library Association], the world's first gay professional organization.

Bella Abzug and Edward Koch -- both Jewish -- the first members of the U.S. House of Representatives to introduce legislation banning discrimination based on sexual orientation [1974].

Winnie Stachelberg -- political director, Human Rights Campaign [HRC]

Michael S. Aronowitz, The New York Log Cabin Republicans.

Tony Kushner -- gay activist; Tony and 1993 Pulitzer Prize-winning playwright [for Angels in America, 1992].

Len Hirsch -- president of the GLBT federal government employees group, GLOBE.

Meg Moritz, Ph.D. -- a Director and member of the Executive Committee of GLAAD.
Barbara Raab -- an NBC-TV producer; a "Jewish lesbian feminist journalist, writer."

Charles Kaiser [?] -- author & founding member of National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association [NLGJA].

David Goodstein -- owner/publisher of the gay magazine The Advocate [1975-1985]; co-founder of the National Gay Rights Lobby.

Judy Wieder -- Editor-in-chief, The Advocate gay magazine.

Alison Bechdel [?] -- cartoonist creator and author of the bi-weekly comic strip "Dykes to Watch Out For."

Kevin Koffler -- Editor-in-chief, Genre gay magazine.

Garrett Glaser -- National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association [NLGJA] national board member.

Ronald Gold -- reporter for Variety; a leader in the fight to overturn the American Psychiatric Association's policy that homosexuality is an illness.

Magnus Hirschfeld [d. 1935], early gay rights activist in Germany; founded one of the first gay rights organizations, the Scientific Humanitarian Committee; coined the term "transvestism"; fled Nazi Germany.

Fred Hochberg -- deputy administrator, U.S. Small Business Administration; co-chair of the Human Rights Campaign [HRC].

Michael Berman -- member, Human Rights Campaign Board of Directors. Mitchell Gold -- HRC Board Marty Lieberman -- HRC BoardAndy Linsky -- HRC BoardDana Perlman -- HRC BoardAbby Rubenfeld -- HRC Board Andrew Tobias -- HRC Board Lara Schwartz -- Senior Counsel, HRC Heather Wellman -- HRC Field Coordinator Dan Furmansky -- HRC Senior Field Organizer, West Sally Green -- HRC Associate Field Director

Rick Rosendall [?] -- President, Gay & Lesbian Activists Alliance of Washington, DC.

Barney Frank -- member of U.S. Congress; helped create non-discriminatory employment policies in all U.S. federal agencies

Kerry Lobel -- executive director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force.

Robin Margolis, American coordinator of the Bi Women's Cultural Alliance and author [Bisexuality: A Practical Guide].

Evan Wolfson, Senior Staff Attorney, Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund -- and -- the executive director of Freedom to Marry.

Jennifer Einhorn -- Communications Director, Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation [GLAAD] Nancy Alpert [?] -- Treasurer, GLAAD Judy Gluckstern -- Board of Directors, GLAAD.Stephen M. Jacoby -- Board of Directors, GLAAD.Matt Riklin -- Board, GLAADCarol Rosenfeld -- Board, GLAAD.William Weinberger -- Board, GLAAD Tanya Wexler -- Board, GLAAD. David Huebner -- GLAAD Counsel.

Richard Goldstein -- Village Voice writer on gay culture and politics

Ron Schlittler -- Director of Field & Policy, Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays [PFLAG].

Craig Ziskin -- Deputy Director of Development, PFLAG.

Debra Weill -- Senior Field & Policy Coordinator, PFLAG.

Dody Goldstein -- Board of Directors, PFLAG.

David Horowitz -- Board of Directors, PFLAG.

Shawn Frank -- Board of Directors, PFLAG.

Leon Weinstein -- Chair, Nominating Committee, PFLAG.

Kate Kendell [?], National Center for Lesbian Rights.

Gayle Rubin -- lesbian author/activist.

Hilary Rosen -- a founding member of the Gay and Lesbian Victory Fund; former board co-chair of the Human Rights Campaign.

Roz Richter, American attorney and activist.

Bob Kunst -- long-time activist in gay and Jewish causes.

"Gay, Lesbian & Straight Education Network" [GLSEN]. Board co-chairs: Marty Seldman, president

"National Gay & Lesbian Task Force" [NGLTF]. Board co-chairs: ..... Rachel Rosen in Santa Fe, N.M Dave Fleischer -- Director of Training [political training], NGLTF. Craig Hoffman -- Board of Directors, NGLTF. Beth Zemsky -- Board, NGLTF. Marsha C. Botzer -- Treasurer, NGLTF. Jeff Levi -- first, Levi was NGTF's lobbyist, early 1980s [NGTF became NGLTF in 1985]. Later, he was NGLTF executive director.

Bill Rubenstein, J.D. '86, developed the ACLU Lesbian and Gay Rights Project

Martin Duberman -- author/historian; founded the Center for Lesbian and Gay Studies at the City University of New York.

Ben Schatz '81, J.D. '85, is executive director of the Gay and Lesbian Medical Foundation.

Kevin Schaub, American; Executive Director and Dean of the Harvey Milk Institute in San Francisco, the world's largest center for queer studies.

Sarah Schulman [1958- ], American playwright, novelist, and activist [one of the founders of the Lesbian Avengers, a direct-action lesbian rights organization].

Susan Spielman -- principal/head of Common Ground, an education/consulting firm specializing in workplace sexual orientation education; her company has worked with hundreds of U.S. organizations, helping them to implement domestic partner benefits plans; co-author of the book Straight Talk About Gays in the Workplace.

Gertrude Stein -- wrote the first openly lesbian novel, "Q.E.D.," in 1903, but it was only published posthumously in 1950.

Rikki Streicher (1925-1994), American activist and businesswoman.

Michael Goff -- founded Out magazine in 1992.

Paulette Goodman -- founder of local chapter [Washington D.C.] of PFLAG and served as President of the National PFLAG organization from 1988-1992.

Jeffrey Newman, American, president and COO of the Gay Financial Network; president and CEO of out.com.

Jim Levin -- New York gay historian.

Barrett Brick -- GLAA [Gay and Lesbian Activists Alliance] Treasurer.

Robin Tyler -- American comedian [born Arlene Chernick] who was the first openly gay comic in North America; Tyler is also an activist who was the stage producer for the first three gay marches on Washington and the national protest coordinator for the "Stop Dr. Laura" campaign; she produces women's comedy and music festivals, and operates a lesbian travel-tour company.

Dr. Bruce Voeller [1935?-1994] [?] American gay rights activist, molecular biologist, physiologist, and AIDS researcher (pioneer in the use of nonoxynol-9 as a spermicide); cofounder and first executive director of the National Gay Task Force; creator of the Mariposa Foundation [an AIDS prevention research organization].

Mark Elderkin [?] -- co-founded Gay.com.

Leroy Aarons -- American professor, journalist, and founder of the National Gay and Lesbian Journalists Association (1990).

Dr. Donald I. Abrams -- American physician, HIV expert, medical marijuana researcher, and past president of the Gay and Lesbian Medical Association.

Johnny Abush (1952-2000) -- [Canadian]; archivist of the International Jewish GBLT Archives.

Roberta Achtenberg [1950- ]; civil rights lawyer and federal official; appointed as Assistant Secretary for Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity by President Bill Clinton in 1993.

Miriam Ben-Shalom [1948- ], American Army Reserves drill sergeant and gay activist; in 1986 she won a ten-year legal battle with the Reserves when a court ordered her reinstatement; founder of the Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Veterans Association [GLBVA] in 1990, serving as its first president.

Larry Brinkin, American gay activist who brought the first domestic partnership lawsuit [against Southern Pacific Railroad, 1982].

Rob Eichberg, American psychologist, co-creator of National Coming Out Day [October 11th].

Scott Evertz, American; in April 2001, President Bush appointed him to serve as the Director of the White House Office of National AIDS Policy [ONAP].

Gene Falk [?, Jewish name], American business executive; Senior Vice President of the Showtime Digital Media Group; part of the team that launched and marketed the U.S. TV series Queer as Folk; Chair of the Board of Directors of the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation [GLAAD].

Surina Kahn -- American lesbian activist.

Larry Kessler -- founding director in 1983 of the AIDS Action Committee of Massachusetts, the largest AIDS support organization in New England.

Kathy Levinson -- American investor and philanthropist; serves on the board of PlanetOut; also on NGLTF Board of Directors.

Judith Light -- actress, activist for gay causes.

David Mixner -- gay activist, political consultant; co-founder of the Municipal Elections Committee of Los Angeles [MECLA], a group of wealthy gays and lesbians who became influential in local politics; president Bill Clinton's Special Liaison to the Gay-Lesbian Community.

Dan Savage -- American author of gay-themed books [The Kid: What Happened After My Boyfriend and I Decided to Go Get Pregnant; Skipping Towards Gomorrah: The Seven Deadly Sins and the Pursuit of Happiness in America] and gay-themed- sex-advice columnist [Savage Love].

Susan Schuman, American executive vice-president and general manager of the Planet Out gay and lesbian online service.

Scott Seomin, American entertainment media coordinator for the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation [GLAAD].

Jason Serinus [Jay Guy Nassberg] -- founder and coordinator of the Lavender Healing Network; a former gay activist with the New York chapter of the Gay Liberation Front.

David Sine [?] -- American CEO of C1TV, the first U.S. gay and lesbian cable TV network.

Rex Wockner -- longtime gay, American journalist who has reported news for the gay press since 1985.

Jack Fritscher -- became Editor in Chief of Drummer gay magazine [1977].

Leslie Feinberg [1949- ], American trade unionist, transgender activist and author [Transgender Warriors: Making History from Joan of Arc to RuPaul].

Allan Ginsburg - late Jewish poet and leading member of North American Man Boy Love Association

http://newsfromthewest.blogspot.com/2008/05/jews-run-homosexual-movement-in-america.html


http://www.homosexuality101.com/resources
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=8445004063241938546

 

[airforlife]

If being gay isn't a choice, then it must be hard-wired by genetics, and a gay gene or several genes can be identified as the culprit.

Does that mean that in sometime in the not too distant future, gayness can be successfully avoided in births through eugenics?

 

[beamers]

^Yes it would then be possible with gene therapy. You could insert a dysfunctional copy of the gene or maybe even excise that whole section of the chromosome. Should that be done though?

Just what mechanism a "gay" gene would have, i.e. what differences it creates in the human body would be fascinating. I mean a "gay" gene, infers "gay" mRNA, which infers a "gay" protein/enzyme. Then it really would be classified, because of these differences, as a disease. It's just not going to happen, but keep searching all the more.

Everybody chooses the lense they use to view reality my friend.

For the record

I do not believe that homosexuality:
is a choice,
that it is a disease
that it can be "cured"
that it should be "cured"

And I have nothing against gay couples adopting.
Although I am against homosexual marriage and heterosexual marriage.

 

[airforlife]

^Yes it would then be possible with gene therapy. You could insert a dysfunctional copy of the gene or maybe even excise that whole section of the chromosome. Should that be done though?

Just what mechanism a "gay" gene would have, i.e. what differences it creates in the human body would be fascinating. I mean a "gay" gene, infers "gay" mRNA, which infers a "gay" protein/enzyme. Then it really would be classified, because of these differences, as a disease. It's just not going to happen, but keep searching all the more.

Everybody chooses the lense they use to view reality my friend.

For the record

I do not believe that homosexuality:
is a choice,
that it is a disease
that it can be "cured"
that it should be "cured"

And I have nothing against gay couples adopting.
Although I am against homosexual marriage and heterosexual marriage.

Yea, this was more or less what I was leading to. The idea that it is a disease, or could be cured, is preposterous.

Even if there was a gay gene which was removed, there would probably still be gay people. There is a choice component to it, and that makes up a large percentage of being gay.

 

[The Monkey Mantra]

If being gay isn't a choice, then it must be hard-wired by genetics, and a gay gene or several genes can be identified as the culprit.

Does that mean that in sometime in the not too distant future, gayness can be successfully avoided in births through eugenics?

Well, as augustaB pointed out, the chemical environment of the womb may have a lot to do with whether the baby comes out gay or straight. It's not a genetic effect - it's just the way the hormones released from the mother to the child change the brains and bodies of the developing organism! This is suggested by the increased incidence of homosexuality with each successive son. Meaning, if you've got two older brothers you're three times as likely to be gay as if you had none, etc. That number isn't cited (it may not be three times, I'm just pulling it off the top of my head), but that's what the data show. Also, this effect isn't explained by merely having more brothers - adopted older brothers don't add to the effect.

Here's a hypothesis - I'm not a geneticist, but a biochemist:
Having more sons who don't reproduce but still work is an amazing asset to a village or family. You can't really say, "Wait, if being gay is genetic and they don't reproduce, how come it's still in the population?" Well, it could hide recessively, and it may be advantageous for the society or social group for that recessive trait to hang out and produce a homo every now and then. If gayness protects the social group/clan, it'll be selected for, as the clans with that MOSTLY (but not completely) dormant trait that only shows up when the genes recombine in juuust the right way will survive better with a minor arsenal of fabulous flamers than clans who are NOT blessed with our excellent taste and exquisite arts and crafts skills. Plus, not having a wife and kids at home to worry about makes for some bad-ass ninja assassins n' shit. There were heeeeella gay samurai, by the way!

Anyway, I'd also like to address the poster who said that homosexuals are repulsed by women as straight men are repulsed by men:

Women are fucking GORGEOUS. I'm not at ALL repulsed by them. I have beautiful female friends, and you better believe I look at them and admire them and enjoy them as eye candy. I love how they smell, how they feel, the shape of their bodies, et cetera. I just don't think about having sex with them! And ya know what? Any straight man who can't look at, admire, and enjoy the look of another guy probably has a ton of insecurities about his sexuality. Come on, people! Human beings are insanely beautiful creatures! Enjoy the sights - it won't make you gay, I PROMISE!

 

[airforlife]

Well, as augustaB pointed out, the chemical environment of the womb may have a lot to do with whether the baby comes out gay or straight. It's not a genetic effect - it's just the way the hormones released from the mother to the child change the brains and bodies of the developing organism! This is suggested by the increased incidence of homosexuality with each successive son. Meaning, if you've got two older brothers you're three times as likely to be gay as if you had none, etc. That number isn't cited (it may not be three times, I'm just pulling it off the top of my head), but that's what the data show. Also, this effect isn't explained by merely having more brothers - adopted older brothers don't add to the effect.

Here's a hypothesis - I'm not a geneticist, but a biochemist:
Having more sons who don't reproduce but still work is an amazing asset to a village or family. You can't really say, "Wait, if being gay is genetic and they don't reproduce, how come it's still in the population?" Well, it could hide recessively, and it may be advantageous for the society or social group for that recessive trait to hang out and produce a homo every now and then. If gayness protects the social group/clan, it'll be selected for, as the clans with that MOSTLY (but not completely) dormant trait that only shows up when the genes recombine in juuust the right way will survive better with a minor arsenal of fabulous flamers than clans who are NOT blessed with our excellent taste and exquisite arts and crafts skills. Plus, not having a wife and kids at home to worry about makes for some bad-ass ninja assassins n' shit. There were heeeeella gay samurai, by the way!

Anyway, I'd also like to address the poster who said that homosexuals are repulsed by women as straight men are repulsed by men:

Women are fucking GORGEOUS. I'm not at ALL repulsed by them. I have beautiful female friends, and you better believe I look at them and admire them and enjoy them as eye candy. I love how they smell, how they feel, the shape of their bodies, et cetera. I just don't think about having sex with them! And ya know what? Any straight man who can't look at, admire, and enjoy the look of another guy probably has a ton of insecurities about his sexuality. Come on, people! Human beings are insanely beautiful creatures! Enjoy the sights - it won't make you gay, I PROMISE!

It doesn't have to stop at genetics, if we could isolate the mechanism (whether it be genetic or like you describe), couldn't we effectively "cure" gayness?

I don't think we could, like I said, there would still be people who would identify as being gay, which supports the notion of a choice.

 

[The Monkey Mantra]

It doesn't have to stop at genetics, if we could isolate the mechanism (whether it be genetic or like you describe), couldn't we effectively "cure" gayness?

I don't think we could, like I said, there would still be people who would identify as being gay, which supports the notion of a choice.

There were some women who converted to lesbianism as a feminist statement, sure... but can you explain to me why anyone would choose to be gay, given the massive discrimination and stigma society continues to perpetuate against homosexuals? Seems to me, unless it becomes completely okay to be gay, no one would choose it. Ever. How many heterosexuals do you know who claim they just really wished they were gay and decided to "fake it to make it"? "I'm not gay inherently - sucking dick just seemed like such a GREAT IDEA."

That said, I rather enjoy my homosexuality. I like a lot of things about it. I don't think I'd ever choose to be "cured" of it. If it weren't for the self-loathing instilled by the perverse, blasphemous distortions of spirituality we call organized religion, I don't think anyone would feel so pressured to change.

 

[Jamshyd]

^ Great points (I totally agree) and a fascinating hypothesis .

 

[airforlife]

There were some women who converted to lesbianism as a feminist statement, sure... but can you explain to me why anyone would choose to be gay, given the massive discrimination and stigma society continues to perpetuate against homosexuals? Seems to me, unless it becomes completely okay to be gay, no one would choose it. Ever. How many heterosexuals do you know who claim they just really wished they were gay and decided to "fake it to make it"? "I'm not gay inherently - sucking dick just seemed like such a GREAT IDEA."

That said, I rather enjoy my homosexuality. I like a lot of things about it. I don't think I'd ever choose to be "cured" of it. If it weren't for the self-loathing instilled by the perverse, blasphemous distortions of spirituality we call organized religion, I don't think anyone would feel so pressured to change.

That's the thing, in recent times, it has become much more accepted in pop culture to be gay. So much of Hollywood and television now features gayness as a social norm, it is highly glamorized as a result of this. And guess what, we also see a much higher incidence of gay people. Well you could argue, maybe it's the large amount of gay people in general that drives this positive attention from pop culture, but this begs the question...

why are there so many new gay people around? seriously, it seems like growth is accelerating (maybe I'm wrong, it would be nice if someone could find a statistic) for no real reason. this doesn't seem compatible with the concept of being gay from birth.

 

[mooncaller]

That's the thing, in recent times, it has become much more accepted in pop culture to be gay. So much of Hollywood and television now features gayness as a social norm, it is highly glamorized as a result of this. And guess what, we also see a much higher incidence of gay people. Well you could argue, maybe it's the large amount of gay people in general that drives this positive attention from pop culture, but this begs the question...

why are there so many new gay people around? seriously, it seems like growth is accelerating (maybe I'm wrong, it would be nice if someone could find a statistic) for no real reason. this doesn't seem compatible with the concept of being gay from birth.

The simple answer is that as being gay becomes less hated and more tolerable more gay people will be willing to be open about their gayness because they don't have to worry about social/workplace/violent repercussions.

 

[airforlife]

That explains some of it, but not all of it, I think.

 

[The Monkey Mantra]

Airforlife, it's not so glamorized that sissies don't get the shit kicked out of them in grade school anymore. Mooncaller is right. There aren't MORE gay people, just more OUT ones. And once the message that it's okay to be gay rings loud and true, more and more gay people will be able to be out with themselves instead of denying the urges and then ending up in fucked-up failed marriages.

 

[airforlife]

Lol kids can get beat up in grade school for anything, but I meant relatively glamorized.

Ehhhh but it would be nice if there were some numbers from a credible source to go by, it just seems that there is a higher proportion of gay people (out or not) in the present. I looked but didn't really find a source for this.

 

[mooncaller]

I don't understand how you can say that there seem to be more non-out gay people around unless you're a mind reader.

If you're suggesting that being gay is so glamorous and trendy that there are a significant number of people faking it, you are wrong. Real life isn't hollywood, which is where your perceptions of the "glam of gay" seem to be coming from.

There are still very possible and severe real world repercussions for being an out gay, especially an out gay man.

 

[Jamshyd]

You can rest assured that no one is faking being gay, and no one will in the foreseeable future.

The social and sexual consequences simply FAR outweigh any (perceived) benefits.

 

[beamers]

Ryan Seacrest?

Great doco on the topic..."For the bible tells me so", google it, it was on a bit torrent site somewhere.

You can rest assured that no one is faking being gay, and no one will in the foreseeable future.

The social and sexual consequences simply FAR outweigh any (perceived) benefits.

But what about the "gay for pay" phenomenom.....what's going on there?

 

[discopupils]

You can rest assured that no one is faking being gay, and no one will in the foreseeable future.

sadly, being one of the younger bluelighters, I can assure you that it is becoming a "trend" to fake being gay or, far more often, bisexual. And its been going on for a while now. I would suggest its a way of "standing out". And a good way to make drama by stating everyone and everything around you is discriminating against and victimising you.
Now I'm actually gay and I obviously find this incredibly annoying, because my first proper boyfriend was one of these people, and seeing as it was my first "special" relationship with somebody I wanted it to be perfect. He got a girlfriend about 3 days after he finished me.

As for the question, I certainly didn't make the choice and if I had it my way I would be straight, just because it would be easier. I think a lot of gay/lesbian/(truly)bisexual people would. I don't think its personally a choice, I think people who "become" gay at a later age have merely not considered it an option, repressed it, or not explored their sexuality fully.

For example when I was in high school, up until age 14, I used to get crushes on girls, but for some reason they just seemed incredibly embarrassing and I was unable to talk about them to anybody while everybody else was gossiping about their "crushes". I thought that this was just normal.

Then it kind of came to be slightly that I found some boys kind of endearing. Once again I dismissed this as normal, perhaps a case of male bonding. But it was when I hit 14 and somebody around me was talking about bisexuality that I began to realise that maybe I wasn't straight after all, and I became convinced I was bisexual for a few years.

But this also seemed to be really embarrassing, almost like an insecurity. I knew I had crushes on boys and my "crushes" on girls were rapidly diminishing by this point, until I considered myself, stupidly, to be a "bisexual who went for boys 99% of the time" (I now realistically believe, that only someone who is exactly 50/50 could be truly "bisexual", as preferring one sex to another, in my opinion, would probably make you rule the unpreffered sex out eventually in a hope of a happy relationship, much in the same way as I did.). It took someone to literally laugh in my face when I told them I was 99% gay for me to realise that I actually was completely and utterly gay. And at that point there was no embarrassment, no feeling of insecurity, I was gay. It just fit.

So yeah, gay wasn't my choice of things. But I have to live with it. I chose no more to be gay than you did to be straight, but it took a lot of soul-searching to come to that conclusion. Which is why I believe that people who feel they have made a choice to be gay simply either aren't or they've just had an epiphany rather than a choice.

 

[Damien]

What about people who feel they chose to be straight?

 

[discopupils]

hmm, I'd say people always have it drummed into them that theyre straight as its the norm. I think people choose to be straight as soon as theyre told that "boys kiss girls". And for most people that doesn't change, but its when the gay/bisexual people challege that, that they begin to realise.
I dunno, I'm talking from experience. What sounds right to me could sound like total shit to the next person.