Opioids Is heroin really that much different?

[hauntedparadise]

Of course, bioavailability is only one component. The incredibly low purity compounded with the bioavailability of street heroin is the problem. That's why people typically switch to parenteral route of administration to combat the low purity level of street heroin, significantly increasing their risk.



I'm not sure how this will improve diacetylmorphine intranasal bioavailability. The bioavailability is how efficiently the molecules pass through the nasal mucosa. Is there any literature that suggests this will increase bioavailability?

I read a study that concluded BA of opiates increases when prepared in a nasal solution vs raw powder. I always figured that BA is low when sniffing because a large amount of the powder is passed as drip instead of absorbed. So I figure if I pre wet my sinus and do small lines spaced out it will give a better and longer chance for it to be absorbed.

Not really scientific but anecdotally it has worked for me.

 

[Deru]

I read a study that concluded BA of opiates increases when prepared in a nasal solution vs raw powder.

Interesting, I wonder how much of an increase it gave to bioavailability. Definitely a good idea to do smaller lines, anything that drips that doesn't absorb into oral mucosa on the way down esophagus, as I'm sure you know, becomes oral route of administration and oral bioavailability.

 

[TheInvisibleStoner]

Why do you say this? Is it because heroin is unreliable from batch to batch? Like one could be stepped on and the next could be pure or cut with fent? That is my biggest concern the unreliable dosing. I am not a dope fiend. I don't chase the high I only do it on the weekends for stress relief and to treat myself.

Correct. You will never know what you are getting. Not to mention the dope game isn't like pills. You are putting yourself at so much risk with police, getting bad shit, your health, getting robbed, maybe even getting killed. And during covid it is literally the worst timing.

 

[hauntedparadise]

I have tried it via the snorting route a while back. Luckily it wasn't good stuff at the time so it didn't have mind-blowing euphoria and I just chose to walk away after seeing what was happening to my buddy. Oxycodone is buzzy and stimulating (because of thebaine - aka "stimulant morphine") which I prefer because I was at least able to go about my life and function like a normal human being. Heroin makes you nod out. Literally you'll be nodding in front of others so it's very easy to have your cover blown if you're interested in maintaining cover. Everyone within his life knew he was on drugs at that point. Nobody had any idea about the oxycodone use. He was forced into vivitrol shot treatment by his family and painfully withdrew for many months completely unable to be high or gain any relief from the monstrous withdrawal he was facing.

Well I don't do oxy infront of other people. I like opiates because the experience is its own fun. I live alone so no one would find out.

and that's how it begins

What do you mean? Is heroin really that different? That is why I made this thread. If it is stronger than oxy then I would just do a smaller dose. Plus I would only be buying it when availability of legit pills were low, like right now. Just a temp replacement.

 

[hauntedparadise]

Interesting, I wonder how much of an increase it gave to bioavailability. Definitely a good idea to do smaller lines, anything that drips that doesn't absorb into oral mucosa on the way down esophagus, as I'm sure you know, becomes oral route of administration and oral bioavailability.

I believe it was with hydromorphone but I am thinking this also applies to other opiates. My theory is that you want the powder to sit back on the mucus linings and give time to absorb. That is why I do small frequent lines and prep my sinus with a spray or wash before hand so the powder sticks. It might all be placebo but for me I have gotten used to the ritual.

Also I am not familiar with chemistry enough to prepare a liquid solution from chopped up pills. I would probably just end up wasting the precious powder.

 

[hauntedparadise]

Correct. You will never know what you are getting. Not to mention the dope game isn't like pills. You are putting yourself at so much risk with police, getting bad shit, your health, getting robbed, maybe even getting killed. And during covid it is literally the worst timing.

I think the covid quarantine is responsible for the shortage of pills on the market. Once this blows over I believe availability will be back. If it takes 6 months or a year who knows. But for the time being I need something and heroin seems to be the only thing out there. I don't want to risk pressed pills because it is just fent. Oxy raw powder is so rare I doubt it even exists. I am thinking at least with heroin it will be heroin even if the dosing is inconsistent.

Have you made the switch? What was your experience? If oxy availability and prices dropped would you switch back? I am curious now.

 

[GetMeOutOfThisCRAP]

Well I don't do oxy infront of other people. I like opiates because the experience is its own fun. I live alone so no one would find out.

I get your line of thinking and everything you've said to be honest. But strongly consider these possibilities because everyone on heroin thought pretty much the exact same things you do at this point in time:

1) You won't be able to stop (ever) and you will turn into a fiend that you state that you are not.

2) You are going to overdose.

3) When you return to oxycodone it will be boring and suddenly lack euphoria. *oxycodone is not coming back like the good old days. The prices will not go down after the quarantine and the government is already preferring it become harder and harder to acquire and off the streets.

Heroin isn't really a drug. It's the perfect drug. You probably don't think that any of these things are true, but most people who have heroin experience I think would state that they are going to happen to you. To be honest you're better off buying pure fentynal and measuring the powder as strictly as possible. At least you know what you're getting. When you do finally try heroin, you will think--"that's what this is like? It's like a nice day at the beach. Everyone was making such a huge fuss about it. So stupid." But soon the fiendness kicks in.

 

[TheInvisibleStoner]

Have you made the switch? What was your experience? If oxy availability and prices dropped would you switch back? I am curious now.

No, I have just been struggling with heroin for over 20 years. I am clean now. In fact I got clean because of covid. Went onto methadone, and then jumped off last month since they wouldn't taper me. Had tons of on off clean time in my life. Always return back to that stuff. While it starts as just on the weekend it will change. I cannot think of the 100's if not 1000's that tried heroin and were taken down hard.

Try it if you want. You're an adult. I don't want to kill your joy. I know when I wanted to try it, nothing would of stopped me.

Also note most in this thread are people that are jaded due to what heroin has costed them. And we are just warning you is all.

 

[hauntedparadise]

I get your line of thinking and everything you've said to be honest. But strongly consider these possibilities because everyone on heroin thought pretty much the exact same things you do at this point in time:

1) You won't be able to stop (ever) and you will turn into a fiend that you state that you are not.

2) You are going to overdose.

3) When you return to oxycodone it will be boring and suddenly lack euphoria. *oxycodone is not coming back like the good old days. The prices will not go down after the quarantine and the government is already preferring it become harder and harder to acquire and off the streets.

Heroin isn't really a drug. It's the perfect drug. You probably don't think that any of these things are true, but most people who have heroin experience I think would state that they are going to happen to you. To be honest you're better off buying pure fentynal and measuring the powder as strictly as possible. At least you know what you're getting.

I appreciate the replies. Could you tell me your story if you don't mind? I always like reading about the experience of others because it seems like we are connected on the same journey if that makes sense.

I don't want to try fent because I don't want to risk ODing and I read that synthetic opiates have no euphoria just drowsiness.

I definitely know what you mean. Opiates are the only drugs that I actually like. Everything else just gives me massive anxiety or just puts me to sleep. I don't even like alcohol or weed. I first got my taste of opiates years back when after an accident. I was given hydrocodone pills which I really liked. Then three years ago I ran into someone who had a source of roxies. Of course I was going to like those too.

I just can't imagine how much better heroin could be over oxy. I literally cannot wrap my mind around it. But then again I am not a fiend. All it does is give me a sense of relaxation. It just removes all that anxiety and stress. I know some people crave oxy and cannot live without it and I imagine these are the same people who get addicted to heroin. But I am not like that. I know I sound smug but I am not trying to be. I've kept it under control for years now I don't think I have the addiction gene that other people do.

 

[Deru]

I just can't imagine how much better heroin could be over oxy.

Oxycodone is a synthetic opioid so had that tell-tale energy feeling and is very easy to be functional on, unless you do pretty high doses.

Diacetylmorphine is a prodrug, it's instantly metabolized into 6MAM and then morphine in the brain. So pretty much all heroin is, is morphine with the addition of 6MAM with better bioavailability than morphine alone. These are not synthetic opioids, and the morphine combined with the 6MAM give intense euphoria, it's nothing like oxycodone, and that's how the addiction can take hold so much faster. You'll be content sitting on a couch for hours in blissful, cloud nine euphoria, warm and happy, literally different worlds from oxycodone.

Where you are, and what you believe right now, 1000s of us have been exactly where you are, thinking the same exact thing. Not many of us that decided to go to heroin can probably say we're glad we did it, but if you do, you definitely won't be unique in that aspect. Purdue Pharma contributed to a horrible epidemic, go to any rehab and you'll likely find at least a couple people in their early 30s who got addicted to oxycodone and transitioned to heroin and then things quickly spiraled out of control.

 

[hauntedparadise]

No, I have just been struggling with heroin for over 20 years. I am clean now. In fact I got clean because of covid. Went onto methadone, and then jumped off last month since they wouldn't taper me. Had tons of on off clean time in my life. Always return back to that stuff. While it starts as just on the weekend it will change. I cannot think of the 100's if not 1000's that tried heroin and were taken down hard.

Try it if you want. You're an adult. I don't want to kill your joy. I know when I wanted to try it, nothing would of stopped me.

Also note most in this thread are people that are jaded due to what heroin has costed them. And we are just warning you is all.

I am glad that you got clean. You are not a kill joy and I appreciate your comments. I don't think I have an addictive personality or that addictive gene. I only do oxy on the weekends. I sometimes go through periods where I don't even do it at all. Mainly because I can't source it but it doesn't make me sick.

I just find life to be dull and occasionally getting high makes me motivated to keep on going if that makes sense. Unfortunately the only thing I like is opiates. I actually hate other drugs they just give me massive anxiety.

I would just stick with oxy if I could since I know the dose and know it is a clean and safe pharmaceutical product. But sourcing it has become harder and harder lately. While the market is dry I was thinking of just using heroin as a substitute for now. Which why I wanted to know if anyone has made the switch back and forth from oxy to heroin.

Maybe one day I will completely stop taking opiates but I just don't think it has gotten to be a problem where I need to quit if that makes sense.

 

[EphemeralOutlet141]

I have a foolproof system to keep me from becoming an addict.

I'm just gonna keep it real with you man, this made me laugh right here. Thousands of people have said this and it's worked out for zero of them. I was a long time user (2-3 years) of moderate strength opioids like hydrocodone and morphine while avoiding life-wrecking addiction. When I switched to heroin everything fell apart in 4 weeks and I mean everything.

I think telling someone not to do something is useless, but I just advise you to be ready to enter a new level of drug use. Heroin is the crack of opioids when you hit it all you'll want to do is hit it again. Eventually you'll want to IV it too. You might be able to last a good while, my second go-around with it I was able to chip for a few months. It still did not end well though. Same with everyone else I know who just used occasionally. It will catch up with you no matter who you are or how you do it.

 

[hauntedparadise]

Oxycodone is a synthetic opioid so had that tell-tale energy feeling and is very easy to be functional on, unless you do pretty high doses.

Diacetylmorphine is a prodrug, it's instantly metabolized into 6MAM and then morphine in the brain. So pretty much all heroin is, is morphine with the addition of 6MAM with better bioavailability than morphine alone. These are not synthetic opioids, and the morphine combined with the 6MAM give intense euphoria, it's nothing like oxycodone, and that's how the addiction can take hold so much faster. You'll be content sitting on a couch for hours in blissful, cloud nine euphoria, warm and happy, literally different worlds from oxycodone.

Where you are, and what you believe right now, 1000s of us have been exactly where you are, thinking the same exact thing. Not many of us that decided to go to heroin can probably say we're glad we did it, but if you do, you definitely won't be unique in that aspect. Purdue Pharma contributed to a horrible epidemic, go to any rehab and you'll likely find at least a couple people in their early 30s who got addicted to oxycodone and transitioned to heroin and then things quickly spiraled out of control.

So what do you recommend? I just don't want to stop taking opiates right now. It may sound stupid but I really think occasionally taking oxy has improved my life for the better. If heroin is a bad idea because it is street drug, then what else could be an alternative? I would rather just stick to pharmaceutical pills but as you know it is getting harder and harder to source.

Nothing really scratches the itch like opiates for me. Things like weed or alcohol only increases my anxiety and stress. I just find life to be dull if I have nothing to look forward to. People enjoy hanging around bars and getting drunk but that doesn't work for me. I rather just sniff some oxy sit on the couch and listen to music or watch a movie.

 

[Coffeeshroom]

im sorry but just a quick Q. Are you addicted and going through WD and that's the reason you keep using and now want to switch to H?

 

[hauntedparadise]

I'm just gonna keep it real with you man, this made me laugh right here. Thousands of people have said this and it's worked out for zero of them. I was a long time user (2-3 years) of moderate strength opioids like hydrocodone and morphine while avoiding life-wrecking addiction. When I switched to heroin everything fell apart in 4 weeks and I mean everything.

I think telling someone not to do something is useless, but I just advise you to be ready to enter a new level of drug use. Heroin is the crack of opioids when you hit it all you'll want to do is hit it again. Eventually you'll want to IV it too. You might be able to last a good while, my second go-around with it I was able to chip for a few months. It still did not end well though. Same with everyone else I know who just used occasionally. It will catch up with you no matter who you are or how you do it.

I am so scared of needles I would never cross that line. I don't think I have that addiction gene. I have been able to chip oxy for the past 3 years now. I understand heroin is a whole new beast which is why I have hesitated for this long. I was just planning to switch to heroin temporarily until the pill market gets back up again. This covid quarantine has really screwed things up.

I don't have the money to support an everyday habit even if I wanted to.

 

[hauntedparadise]

im sorry but just a quick Q. Are you addicted and going through WD and that's the reason you keep using and now want to switch to H?

No. I just like doing oxy but find it harder to source lately. I don't even get sick because the days I don't use outnumber the days I do. I just strictly use it on the weekend. I have been able to do this for years now.

If I could I would just keep sniffing oxy but switching to H seems more practical. I just wanted to read feedback of people who tried both. It seems like most people are saying quit. Which is probably the best idea but I am not at a point where I feel that I need to.

 

[TheInvisibleStoner]

Have you tried kratom or poppy tea?

 

[Branggen]

Its that much cheaper, so you get that much more fucked up. fucked up as in high as well as fucked up as in your life

 

[hauntedparadise]

Have you tried kratom or poppy tea?

I've tried poppy tea before but it really didn't do anything for me. If I had access to opium I would try that before switching to heroin.

I don't understand how pharma companies can put out all these opiate drugs but something as natural as opium is illegal.

Its that much cheaper, so you get that much more fucked up

Isn't that a good thing? I could just use less to get same feeling for cheaper. As annoying as paying for pills is I wouldn't mind it if it was consistently available. But it can be touch and go. I think everyone would rather just use a pharmaceutical product than street drugs it is just the availability and price makes it out of reach.

 

[Coffeeshroom]

No. I just like doing oxy but find it harder to source lately. I don't even get sick because the days I don't use outnumber the days I do. I just strictly use it on the weekend. I have been able to do this for years now.

If I could I would just keep sniffing oxy but switching to H seems more practical. I just wanted to read feedback of people who tried both. It seems like most people are saying quit. Which is probably the best idea but I am not at a point where I feel that I need to.

if you have no addiction to the stubstance or dont get any wd then just stop, don't go the H route and if really have to keep the oxy use to weekends only but even that won't stay at weekends forever. But if you want my input or advice, quit while you ahead.