Heroin Is heroin dying out?? Losing popularity?

[jayyss]

Have you guys sort of noticed that Heroin is slowly losing popularity? (not that it was ever popular lol)

The average age of a heroin / bupe/ done addict has to be over 40. In my area there are very few heroin addicts in their 20s--> they seem to prefer ice or other things.

So surely in another 20 years heroin will be almost gone from Australia?

 

[chugs]

hanging out in some Baltimore subs I was amazed to hear dealers can't even give heroin away anymore. One dude he was sitting on a kilo of uncut heroin and no one wanted the samples.

Users ~want~ need fent due to the massive dose/tolerance problem.

That said demographics of drug users are changing significantly. Drugs were a counter culture and point of rebellion up until after 2000s. Even if we were awash with cheap golden triangle heroin (oh those were the days walking through cabra's apartment blocks, smelling them as they cut/cooked up the smack for sale).

Kids born in the last 20 years have only known parents who aren't pushing their kids to conform. Hence the explosion in identity, gender and sexuality. In my family alone we have two trans and one hetro dating a trans boy. All with our blessings and happiness. I don't know many families from my kids schools that would shut the door on a gay son or daughter. But back in the 70s and 80s. Holy shit it was rough.

In years past they would have been driven out the door or worse forced to live in denial, suppress their self, forced to deal with their parents hate and societal aggression. Dealing with their own conflict (between what they were raised to believe ie god good, LGBTQ bad) but living the lifestyle nonetheless. Trapped in self-loathing, hate, and anger makes a person primed candidate for opiate addiction.

In fact Hutchinson and Watkins (2007) showed that exposure to stress/abuse during pre & post natal development primed the glia to overact later on in life to stress/abuse causing the production of cytokines which disrupt the receptors/neurotransmitters across the body ie GABA, 5-HT, Dopamine. More stress/abuse more cytokines and weird symptoms like IBS (and other stomach issue. All this lays you open for that first pill/injection and bam that Morphine-6-glucuronide, who's affinity is much higher then the cytokines, gives you a sense of relief.

However, again with these individuals, Morphine-3-glucuronide the other key metabolite in heroin unfortunately, directly activates a receptor in the glia called Toll Like Receptor 4, causing the production of cytokines. M3G has a higher half-life then M6G so you have to take more heroin to disrupt the cytokines that the M3G is causing to be produced.

Eventually your M3G/cytokine leaves go through the roof requiring lots and lots of heroin/M6G until you run out of money. And then bam. Cytokine storm otherwise known as "withdrawals".

This is why there is such a diversity in humans between who can take morphine for a surgical matter for several weeks and not ever feel "addicted" verse someone who has it for the same amount of time and can't stop themselves ever again. It's the only thing that creates relief.

So many of my LGBTQ friends, and other kids, on the spectrum, ADHD, bipolar, depressed were the ones knee deep in drugs. Why because it brought relief. Back in those days drug deals were mainly face to face compared to the online mailed to your home ease of today. But today it's way different.

Yes access to mental health is a challenge but its not like it was 40 years ago. Kids get access to a wide range of services and support, be it medication or a host of, significantly advanced, therapies.

Not to say that they don't have their own hang ups and problems but absent parenting of the pre 2000s (70s, 80s and 90s) is definitely no longer as significant as it was.

 

[luckycherry]

here in the south east us it was almost unheard of for a couple years and was essentially replaced entirely by fent, although i've been hearing talk about tar slowly making its way back

 

[Jnowhere]

here in the south east us it was almost unheard of for a couple years and was essentially replaced entirely by fent, although i've been hearing talk about tar slowly making its way back

Heroin was big in Detroit in 70's and then came crack. I believe it was a chief of police who actually warned people of the danger of the city( back in the day)and warned people not to come here because it was so violent and dangerous. Nothing good comes from a drug epidemic in any area.

 

[JackARoe]

hanging out in some Baltimore subs I was amazed to hear dealers can't even give heroin away anymore. One dude he was sitting on a kilo of uncut heroin and no one wanted the samples.

Users ~want~ need fent due to the massive dose/tolerance problem.

I am not even sure what to say about the strength of the synthetic opiates. It seems the stronger they are the more un opiate like they are. I understand heroin. As I said in another post years ago when it was big in the Jazz scene people could indulge and still perform their art. Of course they had issues but heroin is not fentanyl. I can not imagine a musician using fentanyl and playing a show or something like a heroin addict can do. Fentanyl is a different beast.

But what I am seeing is once a fentanyl user it breaks the brain on every using the traditional opioids that are not as strong. Morphine and codeine included. The thought of strong heroin not touching a fentanyl addict withdrawal puts all of this in another category. I could almost come up with conspiracy theories but I think the reality is a super strong opioid was released to the street and made heroin useless.

Also boggles my head people would use fentanyl to break through buprenorphine. That is crazy to me. Sounds harsh.

 

[jayyss]

Man, i have not seen any indications of fentanyl hitting australia yet... It is still the same china white untouched for me as it always has been..
Damn i would def like to try fentanyl though.... why don't they just cut heroin with a little bit of fentanyl to increase its strength!?

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Have you guys sort of noticed that Heroin is slowly losing popularity? (not that it was ever popular lol)

The average age of a heroin / bupe/ done addict has to be over 40. In my area there are very few heroin addicts in their 20s--> they seem to prefer ice or other things.

So surely in another 20 years heroin will be almost gone from Australia?

Wish I could say the same in the US. Fent /xylazine is king here

But I’m. It sure on the age demographic. Hopefully kids don’t try it knowing how bad it is now

I know the US OD rate dropped maybe new ppl
Aren’t starting or maybe the fenta dope
Is also getting weaker I’ve heard

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Man, i have not seen any indications of fentanyl hitting australia yet... It is still the same china white untouched for me as it always has been..
Damn i would def like to try fentanyl though.... why don't they just cut heroin with a little bit of fentanyl to increase its strength!?

Fentanyl sucks except for maybe the rush. By itself it is a hollow high that lasts 3 hrs. Mixing with real
Dooe
Correctly could be nice

 

[AddictedtoChloroform]

Man, i have not seen any indications of fentanyl hitting australia yet... It is still the same china white untouched for me as it always has been..
Damn i would def like to try fentanyl though.... why don't they just cut heroin with a little bit of fentanyl to increase its strength!?

That was how the fentanyl crisis started, it was first put in small amount with H to make the H feel much stronger than it was without outright killing most of the customer base. “China white” is a term that has meant multiple things at different times and places, but one of the most popular uses of the term for years was to either describe fully synthetic powerful opioids or heroin that was cut with fentanyl to make it stronger than it would normally be. Over time market forces, rising user tolerance, and drug enforcement efforts incentivized the eventual near complete switch over to fentanyl in North America which seems to be also spreading to Europe now. There are still people who also sell real heroin mixed with a dash of fentanyl depending on where you get your dope, but even this is unavailable to many people. If you’re getting real, high purity heroin, be grateful that’s the option you have. Fentanyl is not worth trying and is almost universally seen as a less enjoyable and functional drug than heroin in all respects.

 

[3DQSAR]

The Australasian drug market is quite unique.

I think the cost is part of the reason along with the fact that the stuff sounds like white heroin that can be snorted but is more usually injected. I don't think many people are comfortable dabbling with a drug they are expected to inject.

But while the nitazene market is still rapidly evolving, I would think from a wholesalers perspective, they represent an ideal product for the Australian and New Zealand markets. At least some of them are orally active and in the UK at least, there are already people who actively seek them out.

While fentanyl would only be accepted when no alternative was available (as the USA and Canada have discovered to their cost), nitazenes have the potential to bring in a new generation of users.

I certainly hope that the governments of Australia and New Zealand adopt a proactive response to the nitazene threat because the potency of them makes them very attractive to smugglers. I lived in The Netherlands for a few years and they take education on drug use very seriously. At school they are given the truth, not propaganda and it appears to work. None of my Dutch friends used drugs beyond one or two having tried cannabis when younger.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

true opiates that are euphroric, (i.e., morphine derivatives, not sure about zenes, never tried them)...even fentanyl....They are never going out of style and never going anywhere.

These drugs are just absolutely unmatched in the relief of all things they bring, the comfort they bring, and how addictive they are. and they are also absolutely the cornorstone of medicind from surgery anesthetics to (pain management - or so they used to be) they are here to stay.

 

[3DQSAR]

true opiates that are euphroric, (i.e., morphine derivatives, not sure about zenes, never tried them)...even fentanyl....They are never going out of style and never going anywhere.

These drugs are just absolutely unmatched in the relief of all things they bring, the comfort they bring, and how addictive they are. and they are also absolutely the cornorstone of medicind from surgery anesthetics to (pain management - or so they used to be) they are here to stay.

Is fentanyl euphoric? I didn't find it so. Or maybe one has to get quite close to a toxic dose for the stuff to be euphoric? I don't know. My theory is that all it does is relieve the acute withdrawal symptoms which if someone is really suffering, I imagine would feel (relatively) good.

I have not and do not with to sample the nitazenes, but there are trip reports on BL and some people love them. Seek them out over H.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Is fentanyl euphoric? I didn't find it so. Or maybe one has to get quite close to a toxic dose for the stuff to be euphoric? I don't know. My theory is that all it does is relieve the acute withdrawal symptoms which if someone is really suffering, I imagine would feel (relatively) good.

I have not and do not with to sample the nitazenes, but there are trip reports on BL and some people love them. Seek them out over H.

Yes fentanyl is euphoric is you’re not an addict of it.

At this point most fentanyl barely has any fentanyl on it and is just a mixture of xylazine and poison so probably not too euphoric

 

[3DQSAR]

At this point most fentanyl barely has any fentanyl on it and is just a mixture of xylazine and poison so probably not too euphoric

I had no tolerance whatsoever. For about 20 minutes it produced a mild but unsatisfying opiate-like effect. I've also been given in for several surgeries and to be honest, I couldn't feel a thing. So it seems to me that one has to go far above the analgesic dose. I mean, the TI of fentanyl is MUCH higher than morphine yet it seems to be quite deadly.

I don't know if that's a result of unknown purity, various analogues being sold as fentanyl and/or one having to take large amounts to get anything from the stuff.

When I say I have no tolerance, I mean I FEEL 10mg of oxycodone taken orally.

 

[3DQSAR]

I've only ever taken medical fentanyl. Never street. Also, it it lasts for 4-5 hours, it isn't straight fentanyl. The whole point of fentanyl is it's brief duration of action.

Table 1, Onset, duration, and typical initial doses for analgesicsa, - Comparative Effectiveness of Analgesics To Reduce Acute Pain in the Prehospital Setting - NCBI Bookshelf

 

[negrogesic]

I think drugs in general are less popular with gen Z (especially hard, "scary" sounding drugs like heroin), so I imagine heroin use in particular will begin declining, especially in Australia.

I'm an American but I lived in Adelaide, Australia for a while. I think hard drug use (like heroin -- often viewed by society as the "hardest drug" due to its close association with IV administration) will decline in Australia particularly (relative to the US) due to the comparatively high homogeneity in terms of race/ethnicity and lower income disparity. Granted Adelaide is more blue collar and homogeneous than Sydney, but I've spent time there as well and Syndey has no where close the race/income stratification seen in Los Angeles, New York etc.

So the drug averse nature of gen Z will likely have a more profound and uniform effect in reducing heroin consumption in Australia than it would in the US, because despite being gen Z, the pressures of being raised poor, black/Hispanic in the mean streets of Los Angeles might offset the gen Z mindset due to sheer trauma/hardships experienced. Whites experience it too, since there is a large an expanding group of poor whites.

I remember being and Adelaide and going to McDonald's for the first time. When I went through the drive-through I wasn't met with the immigrant or first-generation Hispanic worker that I was accustomed to taking my order in the US. Instead, it was a white teenager. That sort of sums up the differences in nutshell. It felt as if I was transported to 1950s America.

 

[negrogesic]

I've only ever taken medical fentanyl. Never street. Also, it it lasts for 4-5 hours, it isn't straight fentanyl. The whole point of fentanyl is it's brief duration of action.

Table 1, Onset, duration, and typical initial doses for analgesicsa, - Comparative Effectiveness of Analgesics To Reduce Acute Pain in the Prehospital Setting - NCBI Bookshelf

Street fentanyl wasn't around 13+ years ago when I was a junkie, so all I had access to was fentanyl patches. Because I was maintained on 380mg/day of methadone, the street tar heroin was too weak to break through the methadone veil (unless I was shooting a massive amount).

So I used to buy the 100ug/hr fentanyl patches (which contained 16.8mg of fentanyl gel) and inject the whole thing at once in a 3ml syringe. I'd often lose consciousness or wind up on the floor. The whole thing lasted maybe 1.5-2 hours, though there some lingering effects I suppose. Given that I was injecting gel, it might have lingered longer than say fentanyl citrate formulated for injection.

I used to inject the gel totally unfiltered. Clearly I wasn't too concerned for my health at that stage.I would just suck it out of the patch and shoot it (they had a pouch containing the gel, whereas today they are formulated differently, much harder to inject).

 

[garygroundwork]

Not that im an expert on heroin but OP is correct.

The heroin scene is nothing like it was in 80s/90s etc

 

[deficiT]

Man, i have not seen any indications of fentanyl hitting australia yet... It is still the same china white untouched for me as it always has been..
Damn i would def like to try fentanyl though.... why don't they just cut heroin with a little bit of fentanyl to increase its strength!?

Nitazenes have begun to be found in Australia though, which are basically even more potent by weight than fentanyl, so be careful.

Fentanyl is not worth trying unless you legitimately need it for a bad accident or surgical procedure.

Cutting heroin with fentanyl is an extremely dangerous practice, that has killed an absurd amount of people in the last 5-10 years, particularly in the us. It creates "hot spots" and uneven potency amongst the powder, one bit of it might be 100x stronger, leading to obvious issues.

There is no reason to put fentanyl into heroin, the only ethical way to make heroin more potent is by making better quality product from the get, or removing cuts from it when you get it. Heroin is fine just how it is, tbh if someone is not getting the high they desire from taking pure heroin, they really ought to just consider cutting back or quitting, if they want to survive.

The replacement of heroin by super potent synthetic opioids is narco terrorism and profit seeking by world governments, various industries, and criminal organizations.

I had no tolerance whatsoever. For about 20 minutes it produced a mild but unsatisfying opiate-like effect. I've also been given in for several surgeries and to be honest, I couldn't feel a thing. So it seems to me that one has to go far above the analgesic dose. I mean, the TI of fentanyl is MUCH higher than morphine yet it seems to be quite deadly.

I don't know if that's a result of unknown purity, various analogues being sold as fentanyl and/or one having to take large amounts to get anything from the stuff.

When I say I have no tolerance, I mean I FEEL 10mg of oxycodone taken orally.

I have had the same experience with pharmaceutical fentanyl, but I have had a tolerance when I've used it. I barely even feel the effects and it doesn't even hardly touch the pain, whether its given through injection or nasally. Doesn't even take the edge off. Not sure if they're too conservative with the dosing or what, but I'll have to specifically ask for morphine and that will immediately make me feel better.

But yeah street dope is stupid powerful, and I've overdosed from a moderate dose WITH a tolerance. Thats because its not just fentanyl or heroin, its those things and then + god fckin knows what else the whole thing has become insane.

 

[3DQSAR]

I have had the same experience with pharmaceutical fentanyl, but I have had a tolerance when I've used it. I barely even feel the effects and it doesn't even hardly touch the pain, whether its given through injection or nasally. Doesn't even take the edge off. Not sure if they're too conservative with the dosing or what, but I'll have to specifically ask for morphine and that will immediately make me feel better.

But yeah street dope is stupid powerful, and I've overdosed from a moderate dose WITH a tolerance. Thats because its not just fentanyl or heroin, its those things and then + god fckin knows what else the whole thing has become insane.

Indeed. It was only when I obtained a decent dose that I felt anything and even then, it was in no way euphoric.

So I suspect that maybe users have to get very close to a toxic dose for it to really be a substitute for classical opioids or, as I have previously suggested - what is sold a 'fentanyl' is actually a fentanyl derivative. Certainly if it lasts for 4-5 hours, it's not 'plain vanilla' fentanyl.

Yes, nitazenes are somewhat accepted in the UK and would suit the Australian market since it's so much easier to smuggle. How is detected? It takes time to train up a boarder force to deal with a new threat. It could even come FROM the UK since we are normally considered a small dank island with few boarder points...