Heroin Is heroin dying out?? Losing popularity?

[deficiT]

Indeed. It was only when I obtained a decent dose that I felt anything and even then, it was in no way euphoric.

So I suspect that maybe users have to get very close to a toxic dose for it to really be a substitute for classical opioids or, as I have previously suggested - what is sold a 'fentanyl' is actually a fentanyl derivative. Certainly if it lasts for 4-5 hours, it's not 'plain vanilla' fentanyl.

Yes, nitazenes are somewhat accepted in the UK and would suit the Australian market since it's so much easier to smuggle. How is detected? It takes time to train up a boarder force to deal with a new threat. It could even come FROM the UK since we are normally considered a small dank island with few boarder points...

Well fentanyl is actually more lipophillic than morphine, so it builds up in your fat cells after chronic use faster, which could maybe contribute to it having varying durations for different people

 

[3DQSAR]

Well fentanyl is actually more lipophillic than morphine, so it builds up in your fat cells after chronic use faster, which could maybe contribute to it having varying durations for different people

It could well be the case. Certainly the patches are supposed to take advantage of the drug's lipophilic nature.

But I've noted that coroners often perform quantitative analysis on the levels of the parent (fentanyl) and it's N-dealkyl metabolite when estimating the dose a victim had taken.

So I'm presuming that they base that on studies, although I really should ask.

BTW I've been informed that carfentanil has a longer duration of action that fentanyl. I admit to being surprised by that but not surprised that it's beginning to replace other fentanyl analogue in some markets. After all, it's achiral. I somehow doubt anyone producing something like OHMEfentanyl is resolving and selling only the most active isomer...

 

[meeer]

Man I spent nearly a decade selling everything under the moon I could get my hands on and the later half, import or synthesise or find someone to! Fentanyl has been around a long while but before 2015-16 I saw most the supply coming through legitimate means such as fentanyl patches, from pain patients or a dodgy ASF doctor, far less common IME but certainly come across a few. Now I hear most people complaining they can't get shit. Guess I'm extra lucky there.

However towards the late 2010s when I started to shift my focus n life style and despite nearly 10 years of managing to stay away from getting high off my own supply (not including the first time experiences of psychedelics and MDMA, cannabis etc). Until I stopped selling and picked up my own Oxy habit for partial pain and abuse at the time for sure, probably as some kinda karma no doubt.

I must say after the early 2010s almost every n anywhere was being or soon to be gentrified or cleaned up. Sure as hell don't recognise the places around QLD or even NSW for a short while coming up I came up around, as much as its kind of sad there was very little better to do as a kid back then but to pick up a bad habbit or a drug addiction.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Is fentanyl euphoric? I didn't find it so. Or maybe one has to get quite close to a toxic dose for the stuff to be euphoric? I don't know. My theory is that all it does is relieve the acute withdrawal symptoms which if someone is really suffering, I imagine would feel (relatively) good.

I have not and do not with to sample the nitazenes, but there are trip reports on BL and some people love them. Seek them out over H.

I did not find fentanyl euphoric.

I tried it back in 2018ish. Felt more empty & clinical. No warmth, no empathy, no histamine release (so no lovely rubbing my nose red), the nod felt like I was going to lose consciousness and die, not the blissful dreamy nod heroin or other opioids bring. And then it was over in 15 mins.

That was the first time I had ever felt "in danger" on an opioid. And I had plenty of experience with opies before I even tried fent.

Fentanyl doesn't hold a candle to heroin IMO. Sure it's more potent, but higher potency doesn't always equal better effects. Hell, Suboxone is more potent than heroin but that doesn't mean suboxone is better than heroin.

Heroin makes me feel euphoric, empathetic, itchy, noddy, stimulated & even sensual. I am the most pleasant person to be around when I'm on heroin, I just love everyone & love being alive. Complete inner peace & relaxation. Fentanyl did none of those things for me, besides the nod, but heroin nods never felt dangerous like fent's did.


As for the original topic, I'll always love & prefer heroin. Hopefully it doesn't disappear off the planet. I havent' had any in awhile but my hopes & day dreams of one day getting to use it again is what keeps me from offing myself fully. So it better not go anywhere. Fuck fentanyl.

Dealers need stop being cheap fucks (they're acting like damn corporations themselves honestly) and get back into making clean heroin. Heroin is 1,000x more enjoyable & worth it over having a shitty fentanyl dependence.

So there are at least some people out there, like me, who hopes heroin has a come back.

 

[3DQSAR]

Not that im an expert on heroin but OP is correct.

The heroin scene is nothing like it was in 80s/90s etc

I knew enough people who had been using since the 70s who would complain that after the early 80s the quality of H went way down. But that's a function of H in the UK originally being SE Asian white heroin and then the much cheaper, much more readily available Afghan smoking heroin arriving.

All those people are dead now. They didn't exactly die young but in their 50s. Mostly ODs but others due to the damage caused by incautious use of pins. In short, they had spent years injecting all manner of things never intended for such uses.

In short, Grisham's law will always see profit put before quality. Not many H dealers here will go for the much smaller market prepared to pay the much higher price of white.

 

[TheGyattDamnRizzler]

Black tar is pretty prevalant near me. It may have fent in it but never xylazine or benzos. Number 4 is extremely rare and most people that sell it fake it somehow. I've gotten bags of tan chunks that turn into the color of black tar when I put water into it.

 

[3DQSAR]

Black tar is pretty prevalant near me. It may have fent in it but never xylazine or benzos. Number 4 is extremely rare and most people that sell it fake it somehow. I've gotten bags of tan chunks that turn into the color of black tar when I put water into it.

I've never encountered black tare heroin. It LOOKS extremely dubious and while I suspect it's intended to be smoked, I've known people who shoot it.

In the UK dry-amps of pharmaceutical diamorphine occasionally surface which I'm told is more or less identical to SE Asian white heroin/. But interestingly, the few people who have shot diamorphine have complained that it's 'too subtle, too clean' or words to that effect.

My single experience of diamorphine was snorting a dry-amp. It smashed me but then I was someone who while enjoying opioids, only used them once or maybe twice a year. I find them an interesting class of drug but I also know myself. I could so easily do them all day every day which won't wind up anywhere good.

But good input folks - I appreciate all the posts. Very informative.

BTW hydromorphone was recently introduced into UK practice, but it's as rare as hens teeth.

 

[TheGyattDamnRizzler]

I've never encountered black tare heroin. It LOOKS extremely dubious and while I suspect it's intended to be smoked, I've known people who shoot it.

In the UK dry-amps of pharmaceutical diamorphine occasionally surface which I'm told is more or less identical to SE Asian white heroin/. But interestingly, the few people who have shot diamorphine have complained that it's 'too subtle, too clean' or words to that effect.

My single experience of diamorphine was snorting a dry-amp. It smashed me but then I was someone who while enjoying opioids, only used them once or maybe twice a year. I find them an interesting class of drug but I also know myself. I could so easily do them all day every day which won't wind up anywhere good.

But good input folks - I appreciate all the posts. Very informative.

BTW hydromorphone was recently introduced into UK practice, but it's as rare as hens teeth.

Yeah I strongly dislike tar. I can never see my blood pull because of how dark the solution is and hurts like hell to shoot. I prefer the white.

 

[ShulginsReincarnation]

I've never encountered black tare heroin. It LOOKS extremely dubious and while I suspect it's intended to be smoked, I've known people who shoot it.

In the UK dry-amps of pharmaceutical diamorphine occasionally surface which I'm told is more or less identical to SE Asian white heroin/. But interestingly, the few people who have shot diamorphine have complained that it's 'too subtle, too clean' or words to that effect.

My single experience of diamorphine was snorting a dry-amp. It smashed me but then I was someone who while enjoying opioids, only used them once or maybe twice a year. I find them an interesting class of drug but I also know myself. I could so easily do them all day every day which won't wind up anywhere good.

But good input folks - I appreciate all the posts. Very informative.

BTW hydromorphone was recently introduced into UK practice, but it's as rare as hens teeth.

"Too subtle," or "too clean" would be how I would describe heroin.
I tried it once. Only 100mg throughout a day IV. Nice and tan as it should be. Definitely an opiate, but nothing special honestly.

I take it back, tried it twice I just recalled. Did some the next night after I found out my best friend died of an OD off heroin and that time I snorted 100mg at once. Wasn't impressed. It was like a wannabe oxycodone or something. Not enjoyable lol

 

[ShulginsReincarnation]

I find high purity heroin to be pretty similar to typical pharma morphinan opioids. Oxycodone is a bit better in my opinion, but overall they’re quite similar in effect. I find it fairly enjoyable but nothing that special really, and some lower quality heroin even without fent, xylazine, or zenes can feel anywhere from underwhelming to straight disgusting. However, it is pretty great relative to fentanyl (as are most morphinan opioids) provided your tolerance is not too high to make it practically ineffective.

If I am going to do something synthetic I'll stick with oxycodone myself, but as far as natural opiates go (or in general really) I much prefer opium via oral consumption. Its just... better... Feels more full... I don't really use them except as needed for pain, but if I am going to rank opioids I have tried in terms of best "high" I rank opium as number one and oxycodone as two; IV morphine is quite nice, but I also had just been struck by a large truck doing around 100km/hour about 30 minutes prior as well so I don't know if that should even count haha.

Though, I do not doubt your for a second when you say heroin is better than fentanyl. I've heard nothing but bad about fentanyl, and the fact that its so easy to overdose is why I will never touch it. If something doesn't give me euphoria I am going to keep using it until it does, or until it kills me.... So, that's a no go from me for fentanyl or even nitazenes for sure!

 

[floatingaround]

simpl answer imo. ice took over. Majority of society seem to prefer uppers over downers. I have only ever known to source heroin if you know a group of opiate users who have generally been doing it most of their life.

99.9% of drug dealers I've spoken to over my 20 year period of sourcing and using drugs noone ever sold it or could get it...., the .1% dealer that did sell it.. wasn't a mate, was not a mate of a mate.. we popped real alprazalam 15 years ago and went into kings cross asking people who looked like junkies for heroin..

first dude we spoke to brought us back meth.. like wtf we said we wanted heroin mate... anyway didn't hand any money over..

walked back up the kings cross strip, sussed another drug user looking dude and bang, we were on.. the typical China white #4 you find in Australia.

So if your "looking" to source opiates but you've been in similar situations where everyone around you prefers to party.. then your not "looking" properly.

Heroin will never die out and its always there. Just depends how far your willing to go to get it.

 

[canadianpeduser]

Street fentanyl wasn't around 13+ years ago when I was a junkie, so all I had access to was fentanyl patches. Because I was maintained on 380mg/day of methadone, the street tar heroin was too weak to break through the methadone veil (unless I was shooting a massive amount).

So I used to buy the 100ug/hr fentanyl patches (which contained 16.8mg of fentanyl gel) and inject the whole thing at once in a 3ml syringe. I'd often lose consciousness or wind up on the floor. The whole thing lasted maybe 1.5-2 hours, though there some lingering effects I suppose. Given that I was injecting gel, it might have lingered longer than say fentanyl citrate formulated for injection.

I used to inject the gel totally unfiltered. Clearly I wasn't too concerned for my health at that stage.I would just suck it out of the patch and shoot it (they had a pouch containing the gel, whereas today they are formulated differently, much harder to inject).

Damn dude ! 380 mg of methadone is insane ..

 

[Mana0909]

In my experience, Methadone is one of the best opioids. Here’s why:

- Long-acting: It provides relief for an extended period.
- Strong euphoria: Especially Levomethadone/Polamidol.
- Oral consumption: You can take it orally, which is convenient.

I’ve only consumed opioids orally or by building lines. I’ve never smoked them due to their very short duration, and I would never put a shot in my veins. I won’t judge others who do, but I just can’t. Just imagine what your parents, friends, or partner would think if they saw that...

My absolute favorite is Tilidine. It has the strongest cognitive euphoria by far. It’s even illegal in the US, Asia, etc., because of its heavy abuse potential. This is because it’s not just a μ-opioid receptor agonist; it’s also a dopamine reuptake inhibitor (as far as I know, the only opioid that also acts as a dopamine reuptake inhibitor) and an NMDA receptor agonist.

• Effects: Very sedating and insanely euphoric.

Stay Safe, Mana0909

 

[3DQSAR]

In my experience, Methadone is one of the best opioids. Here’s why:

- Long-acting: It provides relief for an extended period.
- Strong euphoria: Especially Levomethadone/Polamidol.
- Oral consumption: You can take it orally, which is convenient.

I’ve only consumed opioids orally or by building lines. I’ve never smoked them due to their very short duration, and I would never put a shot in my veins. I won’t judge others who do, but I just can’t. Just imagine what your parents, friends, or partner would think if they saw that...

My absolute favorite is Tilidine. It has the strongest cognitive euphoria by far. It’s even illegal in the US, Asia, etc., because of its heavy abuse potential. This is because it’s not just a μ-opioid receptor agonist; it’s also a dopamine reuptake inhibitor (as far as I know, the only opioid that also acts as a dopamine reuptake inhibitor) and an NMDA receptor agonist.

• Effects: Very sedating and insanely euphoric.

Stay Safe, Mana0909

I've been prescribed methadone for pain (briefly) and it is convenient in that the stuff intrinsically has a long duration of action. Often sustained-release formulations don't actually provide steady analgesia. But it wasn't levomethadone. I asked the doctor to swap me to another medication after someone I know died of a heart attack brought on by methadonr.

I've never tried tilidine but I have sampled nortilidine (the active metabolite of tilidine). Yes, I thought it excellent. It's not actually that potent as an opioid but it's also an NMDA antagonist and a DRI. That's quite a unique set of activities.

Possibly someone with a lot of tolerance might find tilidine a mite underwhelming but for those without tolerance, it works great.

 

[Mana0909]

Thanks for your reply,

I totally get your concerns about methadone. While its long duration of action can be convenient, the risks, especially with heart issues, are significant. It's always wise to be cautious and consider alternatives.

Regarding Tilidine, I completely agree with you. While it might not be the most potent opioid, its unique combination of NMDA antagonism and dopamine reuptake inhibition makes it quite effective for those without a high tolerance. Nortilidine (having the same potency as morphine), being the active metabolite, indeed offers excellent pain relief, euphoria, body-high and in general a very euphoric and unique rush.

For those with a lot of tolerance, Tilidine might not be as impressive, but for others, it can work wonders. Always important to find what works best for your individual needs.

Stay safe, Mana0909

 

[3DQSAR]

Thanks for your reply,

I totally get your concerns about methadone. While its long duration of action can be convenient, the risks, especially with heart issues, are significant. It's always wise to be cautious and consider alternatives.

Regarding Tilidine, I completely agree with you. While it might not be the most potent opioid, its unique combination of NMDA antagonism and dopamine reuptake inhibition makes it quite effective for those without a high tolerance. Nortilidine (having the same potency as morphine), being the active metabolite, indeed offers excellent pain relief, euphoria, body-high and in general a very euphoric and unique rush.

For those with a lot of tolerance, Tilidine might not be as impressive, but for others, it can work wonders. Always important to find what works best for your individual needs.

Stay safe, Mana0909

It was only last year that a BLer pointed out that it's dextromethadone that is cardiotoxic and the reason that in Germany, this was recognized and so laevomethadone is now used to treat pain.

I'm glad someone mentioned tilidine. There are a few analogues out there which do not appear to be legally controlled. US 4291059 deals with the reversed ester. I discovered the name on the patent was a findable person who explained that they took no part whatsoever in the chemistry. They had simply constructed a Drieding model of nortilidine (no Chem Office back then) and concluded that it would be substantially similar to nortilidine.

It's worth noting that the most potent example in the patent overlays cypenamine which I suggest it why tilidine has stimulant properties.

I note that the most potent analogue in that patent happens to overlay cypenamine perfectly. I'm not sure if anyone ever made 'methylcypenamine' but since cypenamine so closely overlays amphetamine, one would presume the N-methyl derivative would be more active.

It seems tilidine was first patented in 1971, it was the result of rational design and I suggest coupled with a firm eye on synthetic simplicity. Nortilidine is produced by the N-demethylation of tilidine in an unusual manner.

 

[Mana0909]

It was only last year that a BLer pointed out that it's dextromethadone that is cardiotoxic and the reason that in Germany, this was recognized and so laevomethadone is now used to treat pain.

I'm glad someone mentioned tilidine. There are a few analogues out there which do not appear to be legally controlled. US 4291059 deals with the reversed ester. I discovered the name on the patent was a findable person who explained that they took no part whatsoever in the chemistry. They had simply constructed a Drieding model of nortilidine (no Chem Office back then) and concluded that it would be substantially similar to nortilidine.

It's worth noting that the most potent example in the patent overlays cypenamine which I suggest it why tilidine has stimulant properties.

I note that the most potent analogue in that patent happens to overlay cypenamine perfectly. I'm not sure if anyone ever made 'methylcypenamine' but since cypenamine so closely overlays amphetamine, one would presume the N-methyl derivative would be more active.

It seems tilidine was first patented in 1971, it was the result of rational design and I suggest coupled with a firm eye on synthetic simplicity. Nortilidine is produced by the N-demethylation of tilidine in an unusual manner.

Oh, you remind me of something. Do you know that feeling when you're just browsing the internet, reading about substances, and then you find it—a substance that sounds perfect for your taste, but then you see that it has been banned worldwide, way back in the 30s - 90s?

One of those drugs for me is "Amineptine," brand name "Survector." It was an atypical antidepressant and a tricyclic antidepressant that didn't act on serotonin. No, it acted as a strong dopamine reuptake inhibitor and releasing agent, and to a lesser extent, as a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. Yes, it was a strong dopamine reuptake inhibitor and a strong dopamine releasing agent!

Many said that it was better than cocaine and any other stimulant because it had very few side effects. The rebound wasn't as strong compared to others, but because of its insane abuse potential, it was banned worldwide.

Its a little off-topic, but you just reminded me of that, this feeling...you want it so badly, but you will never get it.

 

[Esperighanto]

@Mana0909 Have you ever used Tianeptine? It's wildly available in the USA (I'm not sure about Germany) but it's structurally similar, and I enjoy it quite a bit. It's very unique, and has a unique synergy with serotonergic psychedelics. I often formulate it into "Tianeplean" syrup that I'll put in whatever drink I've put LSD in, specifically. There are many allegations floating around about its pharmacology, I can subjectively state that it feels to be a mu opioid (noticeable pupilary pinning when used on its own, for example), but it was not meaningfully potentiated by carisoprodol nor a variety of benzodiazepines, yet it does noticeably amplify and click very well with miprocin, psilacetin, LSD, 2C-B, allylescaline, and it makes arylcyclohexylamines (ketamine, PCP and friends) feel much more "magical" if that makes sense.

@negrogesic I feel like I can speak on the drug use patterns of younger people as a bit of an insider, I'm a quarter of a century old and have certainly noticed what you're talking about. Growing up around a lot of drug trade, it was weird to watch my homies move dope to my schoolmates' mothers and fathers and shit. Nowadays I think that, in addition to the aforementioned psychological/spiritual issues so well described by @chugs earlier on in this thread, a bigger concern is this collective sense that we're all fucked. Past generations inadvertently left us in a late stage capitalist world where opportunity is essentially a pipe dream. I've noticed climate change in the short time I've been alive, it's fucked up. I've watched tons of people suffer and die here in the US over a lack of insurance, because of losing their job, because the only reason to be alive is apparently to be a cog in the larger capitalistic machine that surrounds you. Younger people aren't really trying to run from things as much as reshape them. I can't think of a single person I know under the age of 35 who hasn't used serotonergic psychedelics and classical stimulants, but most depressants wouldn't be desired in the first place outside of benzos that are anxiolytic without being sedative. Most younger people are depressed as hell, worn out with little to no opportunity to meaningfully recover. Essentially everybody I know younger than 35 uses cannabis and caffeine as daily drivers, and is absolutely down for mushrooms, LSD, DMT, phenidates, amphetamine, etc.

Heroin users are the reason heroin is no longer popular. It was the "king of opioids" for so long, and in what condition did it leave those who gave it their all. Strung out in some dopehouse somewhere? I've known countless heroin users throughout my life and maybe 20% or fewer are meaningfully functional in their lives, without their drug use interfering in some way. The only of the more "problematic" drugs left popular with younger people are amphetamines (though a strong aversion exists towards vaporized or injected methamphetamine, some are still down for pressed meth addies) and benzodiazepines, since so many people have trouble adequately managing anxiety due to inability to access proper mental healthcare.

What concerns me pretty greatly is the "chemophobia" present in many of my peers. They'll take mescaline but not 2C-B, psilocin but not miprocin, but then I'll hear people refer to ETH-LAD as a "synthetic form of LSD", as if LSD is naturally occurring. It's because to somebody born in the year 2000, it might as well be, it's been soaking its way into society since MKUltra. I've often met people scared of 2C-B and explained "You know this is essentially just refined mescaline, the same way that LSD is refined LSA, right?" and upon a brief conversation about structure-activity relationships and Shulgin, people are much less afraid of it. The infinitely broad scopes of chemical soups that compose cathinones, synthetic cannabinoids, and mu opioid agonists have many young people viewing drugs of specific classes as infinitely broad and befuddling, laced with danger and despair. I wish more people would stop thinking that "natural = safe" though, the amount of people both young and old who I've encountered touting the virtues of Monotropa uniflora (ghost pipe) as a painkiller, or mad honey, unaware of their profound toxicity, makes me genuinely quite concerned.

 

[Mana0909]

@Mana0909 Have you ever used Tianeptine? It's wildly available in the USA (I'm not sure about Germany) but it's structurally similar, and I enjoy it quite a bit. It's very unique, and has a unique synergy with serotonergic psychedelics. I often formulate it into "Tianeplean" syrup that I'll put in whatever drink I've put LSD in, specifically. There are many allegations floating around about its pharmacology, I can subjectively state that it feels to be a mu opioid (noticeable pupilary pinning when used on its own, for example), but it was not meaningfully potentiated by carisoprodol nor a variety of benzodiazepines, yet it does noticeably amplify and click very well with miprocin, psilacetin, LSD, 2C-B, allylescaline, and it makes arylcyclohexylamines (ketamine, PCP and friends) feel much more "magical" if that makes sense.

@negrogesic I feel like I can speak on the drug use patterns of younger people as a bit of an insider, I'm a quarter of a century old and have certainly noticed what you're talking about. Growing up around a lot of drug trade, it was weird to watch my homies move dope to my schoolmates' mothers and fathers and shit. Nowadays I think that, in addition to the aforementioned psychological/spiritual issues so well described by @chugs earlier on in this thread, a bigger concern is this collective sense that we're all fucked. Past generations inadvertently left us in a late stage capitalist world where opportunity is essentially a pipe dream. I've noticed climate change in the short time I've been alive, it's fucked up. I've watched tons of people suffer and die here in the US over a lack of insurance, because of losing their job, because the only reason to be alive is apparently to be a cog in the larger capitalistic machine that surrounds you. Younger people aren't really trying to run from things as much as reshape them. I can't think of a single person I know under the age of 35 who hasn't used serotonergic psychedelics and classical stimulants, but most depressants wouldn't be desired in the first place outside of benzos that are anxiolytic without being sedative. Most younger people are depressed as hell, worn out with little to no opportunity to meaningfully recover. Essentially everybody I know younger than 35 uses cannabis and caffeine as daily drivers, and is absolutely down for mushrooms, LSD, DMT, phenidates, amphetamine, etc.

Heroin users are the reason heroin is no longer popular. It was the "king of opioids" for so long, and in what condition did it leave those who gave it their all. Strung out in some dopehouse somewhere? I've known countless heroin users throughout my life and maybe 20% or fewer are meaningfully functional in their lives, without their drug use interfering in some way. The only of the more "problematic" drugs left popular with younger people are amphetamines (though a strong aversion exists towards vaporized or injected methamphetamine, some are still down for pressed meth addies) and benzodiazepines, since so many people have trouble adequately managing anxiety due to inability to access proper mental healthcare.

What concerns me pretty greatly is the "chemophobia" present in many of my peers. They'll take mescaline but not 2C-B, psilocin but not miprocin, but then I'll hear people refer to ETH-LAD as a "synthetic form of LSD", as if LSD is naturally occurring. It's because to somebody born in the year 2000, it might as well be, it's been soaking its way into society since MKUltra. I've often met people scared of 2C-B and explained "You know this is essentially just refined mescaline, the same way that LSD is refined LSA, right?" and upon a brief conversation about structure-activity relationships and Shulgin, people are much less afraid of it. The infinitely broad scopes of chemical soups that compose cathinones, synthetic cannabinoids, and mu opioid agonists have many young people viewing drugs of specific classes as infinitely broad and befuddling, laced with danger and despair. I wish more people would stop thinking that "natural = safe" though, the amount of people both young and old who I've encountered touting the virtues of Monotropa uniflora (ghost pipe) as a painkiller, or mad honey, unaware of their profound toxicity, makes me genuinely quite concerned.

OMG TIANEPTINE

Please tell me more! Yes, it's available in Germany, but there are almost no reports on it. Only on the forum "eve rave"—maybe you know it—it's actually the drug forum for all German-speaking people, but their experiences were very short. They basically said it feels like an "opioid lite."

It causes minimal to mild euphoria and also minimal to mild sedation and muscle relaxation, but only when you take at least 6-8 pills (the only option available in Germany is 12.5mg). I also heard that the total duration is just 2-3 hours, and there is no "extended release" generic on the market.

Please go into detail and compare it with the main opioids like tramadol, morphine, codeine, and oxycodone, as well as with the standard benzodiazepines and, if you have experience with them, other atypical antidepressants and/or tricyclic antidepressants.


Im going to sent in a picture in the next seconds, that is the only option available here

 

[Mana0909]

This is sadly the only option available and there are only 2 total Pharma's, who even have those in stock

EDIT: sent also the second generic option, those are the only pharma's in my country that sell them and only in the dose of 12,5mg, without a Long Acting/Extended Release version