Bupe is bupe/sub actual sobriety or just a substitute!?

[Jabberwocky]

of course I am on bupe; I take 12MG/day usually even tho I am scripted 16/MG; when I am not feeling great ill take 16/MG in the AM and that will it for the day. I usually just dose ONCE daily in the AM and thats it; I do not split it up like most people do and take 8 in the AM and another 8 or 4 in the PM. I truly feel its just better when all taken at once.

anyway, how do you guys/gals feeling about being on suboxone for LIFE!? well, maybe not life, but a long ass time!? I truly feel this drug helps me and keeps me away from dope.. somehow, someway! I tried everything else, like methadone, vivitrol, EVERYTHING YOU CAN POSSIBLY DO, but bupe is the ONLY THING that ever worked for me. in the past I ran it for 9 month w/o using once but I dropped from 16MG down to 4MG over those 9 months and ended u slipping and going on a KILLER 3 year run! now I am back on the bupe and its working GREAT AGAIN!

I hear from some many people that I need to pay close attention to my dosage; manage it better. I need to think of a way to get off suboxone and get completely sober, blah blah. but not for nothing, suboxone makes me SOBER AS CAN BE. I was shooting 2-3G's of dope a day; so 12MG of suboxone may fuck up some random dude but to me it does absolutely nothing but make me NOT SICK and actually put a smile on my face. its something I never thought would happen.

do you others get this from your friends? family? people in general? I have friends on VIVITROL who say they are SOBER but I am NOT SOBER! what the fuck is the difference? sure, vivi is not an opiate but its an opiate blocker which is stopping you from using; so is bupe. and you can shoot through the vivitrol just like you can suboxone, so whats the deal here?

bottom line is if I ever have to take suboxone EVERY DAY FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.. SO FUCKING BE IT! cuz I fucking ruined a lot of things w/ dope. I mean a lot of fucking GOOD THINGS that could have happened and SHOULD have happened but didnt cuz I was chasing dope around.

what are others thoughts? I know this was a subject before but I want to hear NEW PEOPLE and bring this back to the top!

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

It is a substitute. It is not designed for use for years, decades, or the rest of someone's life.

A person who takes subs or methadone, or an alcoholic who takes Antabuse yet still uses other drugs even if it's weed, psychedelics, booze, stimulants like coke/amphetamines/meth, benzos, or opiates is not sober or clean and is just fooling themselves, and playing with fire and their life.

But a lot of people use subs, or methadone to become actually sober/clean and get off all drugs.

 

[Fire&Water]

I believe you'll eventually get sick / tired of the bupe'.

 

[CruelBri]

why would someone get sick / tired of it...


I do not think someone is clean while on subutex, and actually new research shows that subutex is an AMAZING pain releiver (obviously) and With my dope addiction stemming from being prescribed perks for my herniated disk. my doctor has basically said you might as well take subutex for the rest of your life, as gets rid of my back pain and keeps me from wanting to use.

 

[Fire&Water]

If you're taking 8 mg (or more) subutex for back pain, be prepared for a real letdown

I wont say 'I didnt wa...'

 

[CruelBri]

If you're taking 8 mg (or more) subutex for back pain, be prepared for a real letdown

I wont say 'I didnt wa...'

well, can you explain please? The tollerance doesnt grow like other drugs so im a little bit confused.

 

[Mad Dash]

Since I will likely be on it for life both for pain caused from the military and because I self-admitted to the VA that I can not take normal pain killers because I would likely abuse them, For me yes I am clean. It is the closest I will ever be. I went to a PHP rehab facility after I got out of the military because they had me on oxycodone and I needed to get off. And after that the VA said I will need to be on something so they tried bupe. It has worked pretty well for me, have not raised tolerence at all. I go to AA meetings almost daily. Only because NA groups didn't work as well for me, AA around here has a lot more sobriety. I never take more than what I am RX'd I DO mess around with the ROA by means of snorting b/c these Roxanne pills do not dissolve or work for me at all. But my sponsor who has had 40 years of sobriety for the last 10 years has also been on bupe. The general consensus with the people I have met is that if you have no choice but to take them to live a normal life and they come from a doctor then it is not considered a relapse. But that is how I live my life. I got really messed up in the 'stan and live everyday in both mental and physical pain because of it. So me and my higher power came to an agreement. As long as I only take what I am RXd and tell every doctor I ever go to I am in recovery, then I have a clean slate. There are those who would disagree. But I do my best. And it is nowhere near the life ruining thievery and all out madness that my real addiction use to be. That was real addiction and it cost me everything I care about in life including my wife.

 

[CruelBri]

Since I will likely be on it for life both for pain caused from the military and because I self-admitted to the VA that I can not take normal pain killers because I would likely abuse them, For me yes I am clean. It is the closest I will ever be. I went to a PHP rehab facility after I got out of the military because they had me on oxycodone and I needed to get off. And after that the VA said I will need to be on something so they tried bupe. It has worked pretty well for me, have not raised tolerence at all. I go to AA meetings almost daily. Only because NA groups didn't work as well for me, AA around here has a lot more sobriety. I never take more than what I am RX'd I DO mess around with the ROA by means of snorting b/c these Roxanne pills do not dissolve or work for me at all. But my sponsor who has had 40 years of sobriety for the last 10 years has also been on bupe. The general consensus with the people I have met is that if you have no choice but to take them to live a normal life and they come from a doctor then it is not considered a relapse. But that is how I live my life. I got really messed up in the 'stan and live everyday in both mental and physical pain because of it. So me and my higher power came to an agreement. As long as I only take what I am RXd and tell every doctor I ever go to I am in recovery, then I have a clean slate. There are those who would disagree. But I do my best. And it is nowhere near the life ruining thievery and all out madness that my real addiction use to be. That was real addiction and it cost me everything I care about in life including my wife.

I'll second that. Thanks for serving also

 

[Jabberwocky]

Since I will likely be on it for life both for pain caused from the military and because I self-admitted to the VA that I can not take normal pain killers because I would likely abuse them, For me yes I am clean. It is the closest I will ever be. I went to a PHP rehab facility after I got out of the military because they had me on oxycodone and I needed to get off. And after that the VA said I will need to be on something so they tried bupe. It has worked pretty well for me, have not raised tolerence at all. I go to AA meetings almost daily. Only because NA groups didn't work as well for me, AA around here has a lot more sobriety. I never take more than what I am RX'd I DO mess around with the ROA by means of snorting b/c these Roxanne pills do not dissolve or work for me at all. But my sponsor who has had 40 years of sobriety for the last 10 years has also been on bupe. The general consensus with the people I have met is that if you have no choice but to take them to live a normal life and they come from a doctor then it is not considered a relapse. But that is how I live my life. I got really messed up in the 'stan and live everyday in both mental and physical pain because of it. So me and my higher power came to an agreement. As long as I only take what I am RXd and tell every doctor I ever go to I am in recovery, then I have a clean slate. There are those who would disagree. But I do my best. And it is nowhere near the life ruining thievery and all out madness that my real addiction use to be. That was real addiction and it cost me everything I care about in life including my wife.

this is why I feel I am "sober" to an extent. yes, I still live a "normal" life outside and may smoke weed and have a few beers, but the bupe I do not consider a "hard" drug and has helped me tremendously. I was living like complete and utter SHIT for many, many years. so its nice to finally feel somewhat "normal" and not have to go through the daily struggles.

 

[oxy gen]

On bupe as well. Not at all under the impression that I'm clean. I got clean before. This is nothing close. That said, I'm certainly not high. And this addiction isn't anywhere close to a full agonist addiction.

 

[vicerexciser]

Definitely a substitute. I'm not knocking anyone who's on it, but it's kind of like "Stop doing dope and other opiates and take OUR drug". You're still dependant on it, you still get sick if you can't get it for whatever reason. The only real difference is it's legal and some doctor becomes your new, pseudo-sophisticated dealer.

 

[speedballs_over]

Sobriety is not being intoxicated. Period. AA has tried for and sixty years to alter that definition to suit their agenda. Using language like "clean" vs. "dirty" is a mental trap.

When I shot dope daily I wasn't "dirty", I was using heroin. I was opioid dependent. I got into ORT (opioid replacement therapy) and that stabilized my life immensely.

Nobody can tell you you're "dirty" or "clean", unless they're speaking of your outward physical appearance (think Pig Pen from Peanuts, he's one dirty motherfucker.) I'm usually dirty after a long, hot, humid day of working on my vehicle. I take a shower and I'm clean. If I'm also snorting blow, I'm clean after the shower, but I'm also gacked out.

The language matters. It's self-shaming to refer to yourself as "dirty", and that's the start of going back down the trail to using. Allowing others to label you by accepting their labeles - how does that serve anyone well? It doesn't, it serves AA's agenda, keeping people in a constant state of examining their relationship with intoxicants.

Try to get past this, you can attend AA regardless, it helps some people, but watch the words said and how you take them and how it affects you. It matters.

Look in the mirror, are you clean? No? Take a shower, then you're clean.

What medications your physician(s) prescribe are b/w you, the prescriber and whomever pays for your prescription. That's it. Don't let anyone tell you differently!

This is one of a dozen or more very good reasons I'll never attend AA/NA. I'm just fine as it is, thank you.

Signed, Mr. Dirty

 

[Fire&Water]

Righton Mr. Dirty

 

[chinacat311]

I'm still on Subs and have been off heroin for about four years. First time I tried Subs it didn't stick.. I was still using heroin and the Subs weren't "enough." I didn't get a high or buzz from it, so I would continue using heroin. I tried Methadone and that worked better at that point because you do get a little buzz/nod from it so as a recent junkie it kept me satisfied. The methadone was great for me at that time because it let me get my shit together and deal with my issues. But after a couple years on Methadone I was getting sick of going to the clinic everyday and being dependent and tried to get off it. Tapered down to 30mg and had a hard time going lower so I switched back to Subs. This time around it stuck. I was far enough from heroin and the street that the Subs were enough to keep me off other opiates.

I truly think Sub is a miracle drug. You don't get high off it (usually), but it keeps you from getting sick and kills the cravings. One thing I have noticed, which is counter-intuitive, is that with Subs.. less is more. I started at about 16mg a day and never felt a buzz from it, but once I tapered down to 1-2mg I actually started feeling it hit me a tiny bit. And the taper from a high dose down to about 2mg is actually pretty easy. Since you don't get high, you can ignore the junkie mentality that is telling you to take more because more doesn't really do anything. Now that I'm down to 1mg a day though it's getting really hard to lower my dose and I've been stuck at this level for about a year.

My doc also mentioned that they are doing studies on Suboxone for non opiate-dependent people and that it actually works like a low level anti-anxiety medication. I used to get a lot of anxiety and the Sub has been helping with that too.

To OP: if you want to get clean you have to pick a dose and stick with it. There is no reason to take a few mg more here and there. Pick 12mg or 16mg a day and just stick with it. When you take more on some days, you are giving in to the addict inside you that always wants more. And as I said, less is more with Subs, so actually I think a dose of 8mg or so is the most anyone really needs. Doctors tend to over-prescribe in terms of dosage but I haven't ever met anyone that wasn't okay at 8mg a day or less.. so try to reduce if you can. I want to get off it because I have self medicated for more than a decade and I want to be 100% clean, but for some people there is nothing wrong with taking it indefinitely. I actually just read an article about how that whole mindset of "Well if you are taking a drug to replace another drug, you are still an addict" has no basis in current medicine and is really counterproductive. The gist of it is that an "addict" isn't someone who uses drugs. An addict is someone that lets drugs negatively effect their life to the point where they can't maintain relationships, jobs, etc. So if you are happy and productive on Suboxone, there is nothing wrong with you.

Take the time on Subs to get your life together and down the road you can decide if you want to stick with it or not.

 

[《Plasticity》]

I don't wanna sound like an unempathetic jerk, because I can empathize... I just can't see how switching to bupe immediately makes you "clean". I mean you're still on an opioid, a very potent one at that . Just like being addicted to an even weaker opioid than bupe, like codeine or kratom wouldn't be considered clean.

Not speaking to anyone in particular but you can put it any way you want, at the end of the day you inherently can't be clean from drugs (or even just opioids) unless you're, well... off the opioids. It seems that the word clean is only a bendable term by addicts who have not been able to successfully quit opioids, it comes off as a very self defeating.

Is whether or not you're getting high really the determining factor? Say I've been shooting dope for years and I've gotten to a point where I'm not getting high anymore, does that make me clean? Or a more suitable comparison... If I decide to switch to hydro after shooting dope for years, am I really "clean" because the hydro isn't getting me high? Of course not... I fail to see how bupe would be any different

 

[RDP89]

It is whatever you beleive it to be. It doesnt matter what anyone else thinks.

 

[Jabberwocky]

To OP: if you want to get clean you have to pick a dose and stick with it. There is no reason to take a few mg more here and there. Pick 12mg or 16mg a day and just stick with it. When you take more on some days, you are giving in to the addict inside you that always wants more. And as I said, less is more with Subs, so actually I think a dose of 8mg or so is the most anyone really needs.

I bounce when I get that urge.. that urge to go out and buy more dope, or any dope! so ill just take another 4MG to kill the urge; even if its a mental thing I rather be bouncing back and forth rather than sticking w/ the original and going out to shoot. many say they dont feel shit after taking 8-12MG bupe in the AM; there have been many times when using heavy id take 4-8MG/bupe in the AM to NOT use that day and still end up shooting around 8PM; I didnt get the same type HIT/HIGH I COULD/SHOULD have got but still got high from the dope itself.

ill def. be on subs for a bit to get life TOGETHER and then we'll see what happens from there.

 

[Mad Dash]

To me honestly a true addiction is one that has become so bad it hurts yourself and others around you or make you build tolerance so that you meed to keep taking more and more and more. And that is it. What I am currently on does neither of those things and does not cost a lot of money. Is what I am doing considered an addiction to others? Likely so, but it is the first time in my life I have ever felt happy with my cravings for opiates.

 

[Jabberwocky]

^^ exactly, man.

I am also scripted, as mentioned before, other pills because of a tumor I have which causes seizures, so does that mean I am on "drugs"?

pills are scripted to solve the problems you have with your health; suboxone is scripted to me because I had a fucking MAJOR health problem and that problem was slowly fucking KILLING ME, so sober or not, I am not longer DYING!

 

[Mad Dash]

One day the world will understand two things.

1) That the war on drugs has done more damage than any public policy program in the history of the U.S. government.

2) Addiction IS a disease and more and more we are learning that there is actually a genetic CAUSE for addiction, not just genetic pre-disposition. A vast majority of addicts and alcoholics have D1 dopamine deficiency disorder and simply are not able to get the same joy out of life as people without this disorder.

When this is understood two things will happen.

1) Drugs will be decriminalized perhaps even legalized. This will save the U.S. BILLIONS in tax payer money. It will also stop all criminal activity related to drugs (ex: cartels, dealers, gangs,etc...). And of course the most important is the amount of money the govt could make in taxes on drugs.

2) The word addict will be replaced with something else. This will for the first time allow people to seek help as SOON as things begin to go wrong instead of being ashamed and hiding, and lying, and stealing, and dying.


-IF this does not happen God help us all.