Insomniacs out there? what do you take?

[narutokun]

^I did man! I cut off coke and mph and midazolam of course right after that. Haven't IVed ever since, ok exept for a recent alprazolam shot; but I was very bored so. It had been more than a month since I last IVed! Like I said I've been plugging it mostly... I haven't IVed midazolam since that event...
But I think I might start again now cause I'm gonna get roche's instead of generics, which I hear are great to shoot; and also they are three times more expensive than the generics so it feels kind of a waste plugging them, I dunno. 8(

 

[McFresh]

Herb for me.

 

[Psych0naut]

^I did man! I cut off coke and mph and midazolam of course right after that. Haven't IVed ever since, ok exept for a recent alprazolam shot; but I was very bored so. It had been more than a month since I last IVed! Like I said I've been plugging it mostly... I haven't IVed midazolam since that event...
But I think I might start again now cause I'm gonna get roche's instead of generics, which I hear are great to shoot; and also they are three times more expensive than the generics so it feels kind of a waste plugging them, I dunno. 8(

Go for the blue bombs(15 mg Dormicum, by Roche), I have a prescription for them as well and they are the only benzo's that really knock you out with just a single tablet, even when you are hard headed and have a fair tolerance. They raise your tolerance like no other benzo though, and withdrawing from a Dormicum habit, well, it ain't pretty .. Dormicum tablets aren't too good to shot though, I always have to chew on them to make them dissolve in my mouth, they don't dissolve by themselves when I put them under my tongue. If you do persist on shooting them, go for the Blue bombs, not the normal white 7,5mg tablets, cause they're both the same size and weight, but the 15mg tablets contain twice as much midazolam as the 7,5mg tablets, so you're better of shooting the exact same tablets but with a different colour and twice as much midazolam in it. I've never tried generic midazolam though, so I don't know how they are regarding their solubility and how well they dissolve, I have brand name Dormicum ampoules so I don't go through the hassle of shooting tablets.

To get back on topic, I've been to my doc just a few hours ago regarding my very severe insomnia and the fact not even the strongest benzo's touch it, and because I have ADD and am prescribed dexedrine, my doc suggested to take a small dose of dexedrine around an hour before bedtime, to combat rebound ADD. It sounds really weird, using more amphetamine to fall asleep, but he is a specialist on ADD/ADHD, and he has seen it work in plenty of people with ADD/ADHD. I'll see what happens.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

Isnt this a paradox? Wouldnt you get knocked out before catching a buzz??

Got me. I should've elaborated, if I take 15-30 mgs and lay in bed I will be able to sleep with no problems. Where as if I take 15-30 and go out I will hardly, if at all notice I took anything.

If I am trying to get intoxicated on temazepam I'll bump the dose up to 60-75 and be fine untill I lay down...at which point its probably unneccesary to say I will sleep well.

anyway, temazepam. ask for it by name.

 

[ratgirl]

so sublingual if i want to sleep now, and normal if i can go to sleep normally and tend to wake up during the night?

Pretty much.

I was going to start a thread on this, but have learned to utfse anyway, Nitrous is Nice, I have problems staying asleep. Do i take the melatonin before I go to sleep, or when I wake up in the middle of the night? Also, is the only difference btwn sublingual and normal that the sublingual will hit you faster ie making you fall straight asleep? Like I said, I can fall asleep fine, I just can't stay asleep. Currently, I take 3 MG's of xanax and 1 or 2 benadryl through the nite...

sorry if this has already been answered, I'm a bit sleep deprived8) so shit's not making the most sense...

 

[bingalpaws]

melatonin's out of your system pretty fast, and is usually available in 3 formulations, namely sublingual, normal, and timed release. You'd want a timed release pill for staying asleep. Also xanax is outta your system really fast, clonazepam should be better for staying asleep, xanax for falling asleep.

 

[ratgirl]

melatonin's out of your system pretty fast, and is usually available in 3 formulations, namely sublingual, normal, and timed release. You'd want a timed release pill for staying asleep. Also xanax is outta your system really fast, clonazepam should be better for staying asleep, xanax for falling asleep.

I'm visiting my doc Thursday, and I don't think he would have a problem RXing the klonopin for sleep (I've been on it before, switched to xanax b/c it seems to manage my anxiety better.) I'm going to ask him if I can do Klonies at night, xanies during the day.

Anyway, thank you! once again, great info from BL

 

[bingalpaws]

no problem.

I've never understood the reason docs do daily dosing long term with xanax, it's just such a fucking fast acting benzo I cannot endorse it. Guess that's why I'm not a doc lol!!! But I know people prescribed it for generalized anxiety, but the problem is that the blood levels are just too erratic, I cannot understand why it's so commonly prescribed over, say, diazepam or clonazepam. Xanax is great for panic attacks and for a quick acter, something outta your system fast is very useful in many occasions, but for the daily needs xanax just never seemed a great candidate to me. (and yes I've been scribed myself so I have personal experience, that's not just my guess or something..)

 

[ratgirl]

no problem.

I've never understood the reason docs do daily dosing long term with xanax, it's just such a fucking fast acting benzo I cannot endorse it. Guess that's why I'm not a doc lol!!! But I know people prescribed it for generalized anxiety, but the problem is that the blood levels are just too erratic, I cannot understand why it's so commonly prescribed over, say, diazepam or clonazepam. Xanax is great for panic attacks and for a quick acter, something outta your system fast is very useful in many occasions, but for the daily needs xanax just never seemed a great candidate to me. (and yes I've been scribed myself so I have personal experience, that's not just my guess or something..)

yeah, that's interesting you're saying this (or maybe just coincidental timing). but last week, I had needed to pick up my xanax refil, and didn't have the money for the co-pay till pay day. (I could have borrowed, but whatever). I had klonopin left over from a year ago when we did the klonopin-to-xanax switch. anyway, I took that in place of the xanax for a day and 1/2, and i don't know if it's just me, and the power of suggestion/placebo effect, but I SWEAR it managed my anxiety better. I also felt more like myself, not as BLAH as I do on xanax. In truth, I really didn't realize xanax was making me feel like that (can't really think of a way to describe it except "blank" inside. Like I have no personality) until I DIDN'T take it!

I know different things work for different individuals and all that, but I think for me klonopin might be a better alternative... luckily I have an AWESOME doc who isn't one of those paranoid "oh my god, everyone is just trying to get pills" dudes, he actually listens...

in your opinion, is one (klonopin or valium) better than the other for staying asleep? sorry to get so rambl-y. but, thanks, bingalpaws!

 

[ChemicalSmiles]

I take either 1 mg of klonipin or 1 mg of xanax mixed with 2 tylenol pms. Works like a charm 99 % of the time.

 

[bingalpaws]

yeah, that's interesting you're saying this (or maybe just coincidental timing). but last week, I had needed to pick up my xanax refil, and didn't have the money for the co-pay till pay day. (I could have borrowed, but whatever). I had klonopin left over from a year ago when we did the klonopin-to-xanax switch. anyway, I took that in place of the xanax for a day and 1/2, and i don't know if it's just me, and the power of suggestion/placebo effect, but I SWEAR it managed my anxiety better. I also felt more like myself, not as BLAH as I do on xanax. In truth, I really didn't realize xanax was making me feel like that (can't really think of a way to describe it except "blank" inside. Like I have no personality) until I DIDN'T take it!

I know different things work for different individuals and all that, but I think for me klonopin might be a better alternative... luckily I have an AWESOME doc who isn't one of those paranoid "oh my god, everyone is just trying to get pills" dudes, he actually listens...

in your opinion, is one (klonopin or valium) better than the other for staying asleep? sorry to get so rambl-y. but, thanks, bingalpaws!

That was pretty much my experience while I was used xanax. Although I didn't notice I had felt 'blank' until I came off of them.. What I did notice very commonly though was that in the mornings I would have much higher anxiety (I usually took my dose around early evening, maybe 5ish) than nights due to my dosing, and that lead to what I found to be the 'best' approach, which was just breaking it into 2 servings for morning and night (if I just took it in the morning, by nighttime I wouldn't be able to sleep w/o another, but half in the morn and half at night was much better). The thing is tho, that I could practically TELL when I was ready for my nighttime dose, and that's annoying as shit. Never had that happen while on klonapins.

As far as for your sleep, either the clonazepam or the diazepam (valium) would be fine -the issue with xanax is the fact it gets weaker so quickly in your body, both clon and diaz are going to have a long enough stretch they should be equal enough for a night's sleep. However, for just generalized, daily usage, if I could've chosen my own they definitely would've been valium. Far, far better than most any other benzo for when you want to take your doses down, which *many* people seem to end up wanting to do after a while on benzos (lots of times when they notice that 'blank'-ness you mentioned). Reducing dosages on most benzos besides valium is just way more annoying due to blood levels getting too low, but valium stays so much more consistent.

 

[Psych0naut]

If you are an insomniac and you can get benzo's, then why in the hell would you take anticonvulsant or anxiolytic benzo's if you can get hypnotic benzo's, which are meant for insomnia?

 

[bingalpaws]

meant for it? Damn I could've sworn insomnia reasons were off label scribes, meh..

There's times where I find seroquel (that's an antipsych right?) does what, say, xanax simply cannot (or perhaps it could, but why eat like 5 bars and waste them when a partial pill of sero will do the trick?). But for me the only time that comes around is coming off strong stuff, particularly mdma/lsd/mushrooms.

 

[ratgirl]

questions and more questions

If you are an insomniac and you can get benzo's, then why in the hell would you take anticonvulsant or anxiolytic benzo's if you can get hypnotic benzo's, which are meant for insomnia?

ok, the following are hypnotic benzos, right?
nitrazepam, triazolam, oxazepam.

I found the bellow info on wikipedia:

"nitrazepam is most often used to treat short-term sleeping problems (insomnia).

Triazolam (marketed under brand names Halcion®, Novodorm®, Songar®) is a benzodiazepine derivative drug. It possesses pharmacological properties similar to that of other benzodiazepines, but it is generally only used as a sedative to treat insomnia.[1]

(oxazepam) Indications: It is an intermediate acting benzodiazepine with a slow onset of action, so it is usually prescribed to individuals who have trouble staying asleep, rather than falling asleep."


am I correct in assuming that if I were to take these during the day, they would knock me on my ass? I currently take 3 mgs of xanax during the day (spread out from about 6 am to 4 pm) and then 3 mgs of xan at night. I've tried seroquil years back, and really didn't like it cause it made me get all fat and shit.

what I'm thinking of doing is talking to my doc about staying on xanax or klonopin during the day for my anxiety, and a hypnotic benzo at night for sleep. Does this make sense? Or do I have this completely messed up in my sleep-deprived head?

also, which of the hypnotics would be best for insomnia? which would ya'll pick?

{whew} sorry that was so long, hope it made a bit of sense. thanks, BL'ers!

 

[delphinen]

mind if I ask help for this thread? its totally related
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=362081

 

[ratgirl]

ok, my doc appointment is tomorrow, and I need some advice as to what to ask for (see 2 posts above for specifics as I'm not gonna type all that shit out again and risk boring people a second time.)

If anyone has any recomendations or advice, or could at least tell me if the conclusions I'm drawing are correct (once again, see 2 posts up), I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!

 

[bingalpaws]

haha let me try to help some more before you go .

Regarding the hypnotic qualities, and also some other cool features (namely half life and an equivalency table to convert amongst different benzos for strength - I know many will appreciate this ), check this chart out:
http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

Note that the chart isn't some gold standard of accuracy insofar as either the equivalency rates or half lives, as there seems to always be different figures depending where you go, but it's pretty on point as far as I could ever tell.

Now, things that don't have the 'h' for hypnotic there still do have hypnotic properties.

If you could do a heavily hypnotic benzo at nighttime, I guess I fail to see why you'd want xanax still during the day. I guess I'll never understand the desire for xanax for *anything* besides trying to get fucked up, trying to calm a panic attack, or trying to fall asleep. I'll just never get using it for daily anxiety reasons. Based on the stuff you're saying, I'd think some combos may be better. For instance, being on valium for your days and xanax or clonazepam for your nights would not give you as much of low points during the day and still have a faster acter at night. You could swap in others instead of, say, the xanax for nighttime, but others may fall short of a full night (like versed, for instance, would prolly be a piss poor one for *staying* asleep, but no doubt it'll knock your ass out asap at the proper dose!).

And 6mg daily, scribed? God that's what I'll never understand, 3 bars a day instead of a big ass valium dose (how many times do you drop individually, just 2 separate dosings?). I'm not asking you to list yes or no, or specifics, but if you are prescribed other things along with that hefty dose of xanax you'll have a lot more to take into account.

 

[ratgirl]

And 6mg daily, scribed? God that's what I'll never understand, 3 bars a day instead of a big ass valium dose (how many times do you drop individually, just 2 separate dosings?). I'm not asking you to list yes or no, or specifics, but if you are prescribed other things along with that hefty dose of xanax you'll have a lot more to take into account.

I do three dosings during the day (1 mg each time) first at 6 AM, next around 11 AM, last at 4 PM. Then my 3 mgs at nite. The only other things I'm Rx'd are Prozac, Wellbutrin, and Soma. It's weird, cause I respect/like/adore this doctor so much (he basically saved my life a few years back) that I just *can't* bring myself to abuse something he gives me. I mean, if I were to stumble upon some pills, I would surely *suddenly* have HORRIBLE pain that required pain killers, and "justified" my taking them . but for some fucked up reason in my fucked up head, that's different than abusing the stuff from this doc. Also, it's not like a combo of Prozac, Wellbutrin, and Soma are gonna lead to the trip of a lifetime, or any trip!

So, to answer (i think) your question, I'm not RX'd any other benzos or sedatives (soma sometimes makes me tired, but I try not to take that to fall asleep). I'd just really like to get on some kind of regeime where I am getting steady sleep and also managing my anxiety during the day, but not having to do illegal shit to make that happen, ya dig? just being on the up-and-up w/ my doc. cause IME, good docs are hard to find, and no way am I gonna lose this one!

"If you could do a heavily hypnotic benzo at nighttime, I guess I fail to see why you'd want xanax still during the day."

I'm a bit confused: are you saying that the hypnos would still have enough of an acting affect during the day that I wouldn't *usually* need anything else? Or are you just questioning xanax. If it's questioning the xanax, I agree! As I said, those couple of days last week when I couldn't pay for my refil and had to rummage thru my left over klonopin and took the klon in place of the xan, I felt better, less blank and zombie like (during the day). But, I really don't know much about the hypnos, so for all I know they could/do last long enough to work through the day w/o needing klon or xan.

ok, I'm going to check out that link you sent me. Bingalpaws, thank you so so so much for all of your help!

 

[ratgirl]

Regarding the hypnotic qualities, and also some other cool features (namely half life and an equivalency table to convert amongst different benzos for strength - I know many will appreciate this ), check this chart out:
http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

I looked up that link, and I'm bookmarking that shit, so then I won't have to bug ya'll w/ all my questions and be told: (all together now) "UTFSE"!!!

lol, I'm picking on myself, guys, not on the people who have told me to utfse.

(thanks, bingalpaws for the link. hope the info i gave you in my last post makes sense. you are really helping me out with this! thanks.)

 

[bingalpaws]

I do three dosings during the day (1 mg each time) first at 6 AM, next around 11 AM, last at 4 PM. Then my 3 mgs at nite. The only other things I'm Rx'd are Prozac, Wellbutrin, and Soma. It's weird, cause I respect/like/adore this doctor so much (he basically saved my life a few years back) that I just *can't* bring myself to abuse something he gives me. I mean, if I were to stumble upon some pills, I would surely *suddenly* have HORRIBLE pain that required pain killers, and "justified" my taking them . but for some fucked up reason in my fucked up head, that's different than abusing the stuff from this doc. Also, it's not like a combo of Prozac, Wellbutrin, and Soma are gonna lead to the trip of a lifetime, or any trip!

So, to answer (i think) your question, I'm not RX'd any other benzos or sedatives (soma sometimes makes me tired, but I try not to take that to fall asleep). I'd just really like to get on some kind of regeime where I am getting steady sleep and also managing my anxiety during the day, but not having to do illegal shit to make that happen, ya dig? just being on the up-and-up w/ my doc. cause IME, good docs are hard to find, and no way am I gonna lose this one!



I'm a bit confused: are you saying that the hypnos would still have enough of an acting affect during the day that I wouldn't *usually* need anything else? Or are you just questioning xanax. If it's questioning the xanax, I agree! As I said, those couple of days last week when I couldn't pay for my refil and had to rummage thru my left over klonopin and took the klon in place of the xan, I felt better, less blank and zombie like (during the day). But, I really don't know much about the hypnos, so for all I know they could/do last long enough to work through the day w/o needing klon or xan.

ok, I'm going to check out that link you sent me. Bingalpaws, thank you so so so much for all of your help!

nah actually I meant more along the lines of if you're taking the hypnotics for sleep you'd want faster metabolized ones, and during the day you'd want your anxiety dealt with through a less hypnotic, much, much longer half-life product, like diazepam. This would do a great deal for eliminating the 'peaks and troughs' <sp?> of a xanax-only regimen. I guess you should, well I would anyways, bring it up to my doctor to discuss. Mention that, maybe, something like xanax doesn't have as many positive attributes for your situation during the day as, say, clonazepam, or better yet, diazepam. Now, some people notice big differences, others really don't. I mean, when I was on benzos, I could discern benzos for the most part, but any of them *worked*, so if I had the choice I would've been on valium the entire time instead of xanax for most of it (and kpins for some as well).

As far as your nighttime dosing @3mgs alprazolam, have you ever messed around with it? I've never liked high nighttime doses at all for 'real' (read: not recreational) purposes, they always made the next morning feel so much worse. I wonder if you'd only need maybe 2mg to sleep? Or 1.5? I dunno, I mean I enjoy abusing benzos as much as anyone else, but have always found them to be best for more legit uses when doses are kept as low as possible, and as consistent as possible, and it doesn't get much more consistent than valuim.

Also note that chart will have equivalences to xanax so you can get ballpark ideas of what proper doses are for you of whatever you were considering. I'd think a clonazepam nighttime pill and valiums in the morning would be good, but again I'm not doc, just a kid who used to use these like you do and has some personal experience with it.