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I'm gonna glue myself to this forum until I've kicked heroin

Way to throw the parachute early on that relapse burton.=D.. and really im coming to the solid conclusion that i may think the suboxone tapper to come off opiates with a short half life is nothing more than wishful thinking and just leads to as you said a, "long ass drawn out suboxone withdrawals."

@figure11 Nice work on day two=D.. I only know of one thing called figure 11 and thats strait pointing it.. as in tight ass Figure11 shoots next to Big shoot half way up the headwall in crested butte.. any chance that your handle is all about pointing it strait down hill?
 
So I've decided to be grateful for this relapse because it taught me some valuable lessons. I know exactly what I did wrong - I ignored all of the signs leading up to my relapsing even though I knew they were there. I totally overestimated my willpower/strength. At least I know what not to do again, for now it's a start. But these withdrawals man... sometimes it's uncomfortable enough to be painful. I wasn't expecting them to get this bad, the akathisia I have today is absolutely insane, but I'm trying to take comfort in the fact that it showing up so soon is a good thing. Like its all hitting me at once, not at all the way suboxone withdrawals are.... I hope that means they'll go away faster.

God this addiction thing is seriously just one huge mindfuck.

@neversickanymore - speaking of suboxone... it can be an amazing thing if your in the very late stages of your addiction. I wouldn't have been able to kick on my own the last time without it. Yea the withdrawals are evil because of their length but def preferable to the intensity of severe cold turkey heroin withdrawal!! This time I feel differently about it because mild cold turkey withdrawals are juuuust bearable enough to get through via natural methods.
 
Hey xburton i didnt read this whole thread but i have been reading your posts over the years youve been posting here. Your threads ate always entertaining and i respect your honesty! I was addicted to dope for 4 years like you i was always sick,trying toquit, or doing bad things ro maintain my habit. Well i eventually gave up and realized i was really really addicted to opiates and i just wasnt strong enough to quit. So i got on suboxone maintenance. For the first year notjong changed i did dope and sold my subs to help fund it. Tje second year i would take a low dose of sub and use heroin on top of it. But slowly i lost my desire to do heroin it was just more trouble than the high was worth. I have made this same post alot of times on here but i still feel it might help you. Get on maintenance get your shit sorted out then worry about being drug free. I have found sobriety is more a state of mind.
 
hi Burton,glad you're not giving up.
I did this thing we do for a little less than 10 years.
like crimson junk suggests,suboxone can really help.
I'm on subs still because it also works on depression.
it took me a long time,a looong fucking time,to kick heroin.
be very kind to yourself.this addiction is the ultimate mindfuck.
 
im with everyone else on the maintenance if this pattern is just something that repeats.. everyone seems to have an individual length for their cycle of addiction and you seem to be a pretty rapid cycler burton.. I think you could extend your cycles out a long way by adoption a maintenance program for a bit... also i wouldnt worry to much about the long sub withdrawal as withdrawing every couple of weeks will be much worse. I think I even felt this way early on in this thread and mentioned it. Hope you are felling better Burton<3
 
yeah I'm feeling a little better. I don't really feel comfortable with Suboxone maintenance for a few different reasons. I think it's awesome that it works for other people, but I'm not convinced I'm fucked unless I take Suboxone every day. Yeah I've relapsed a lot in the past, but 99% of those relapses have been because I just straight up wasn't ready to quit. Besides, I've done long term Suboxone maintenance in the past, and it was hell. It started making me be reclusive, depressed, and have low energy after a few months, and it's what led me to heroin, and ultimately a far worse addiction than what started as a pathetic little Norco one, in the first place.

And I tended to abuse it.

Sooo it's something I will consider IF I can't figure this thing out on my own. But I know I can, because I loved my life so much before opiates ever entered the picture, and I know I can get back to that. It just might take a little extra effort, but I'm pretty determined to find the girl who got high everyday just by driving up to the mountains and shredding. <3 I miss that life, man... I want it back. I'm not convinced I can do that with Suboxone either...

Withdrawals update: I got back into my daily vitamin regimen yesterday and this morning (one of the signs I was about to relapse, to me, was when I lost interest in that) and last night I was able to eat a small chicken salad, and this morning I was able to eat half a piece of toast and some grapes. It's not much, I know, but it's a start... tbh I still don't feel much like eating, I'm just doing it kind of robotically because I know that nutrition is like, THE most important thing in life ever and my withdrawals will just take longer and feel MUCH worse if I don't eat. Hopefully at some point today I'll feel like taking a walk or something. If all else fails, I have a hot tub in my backyard to use whenever the fuck I want lol... I seriously love that thing. I'm weird because I'm like immune to heat and can handle ridiculously high temps (which also means I'm sensitive to cold, which sucks for a snowboarder, but meh) and I'll go in there sometimes in the middle of the day even though I live in Cali and it's summer... and then my family is always like wtf are you doing?! get out you're going to get heat poisoning!! And I'm like but you don't understandddd lol... whatever. I think that much heat feels bomb as fuck. Especially in withdrawal. And as for sleep... ummm yeah no. That's been probably my number one struggle through this. I slept a LITTLE better last night than the night before, but I was also soaked in sweat more, which was kind of paradoxical because I wanted sleep so bad but dreaded it at the same time. But a little better every day, right? I'll take any victories, no matter how small. Extra sleep, even really sweaty sleep, to me = victory. I just think it's weird that this is happening because it didn't happen at all when I was doing the Suboxone taper... in fact, I slept like a baby literally almost every night. Weird.
 
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well,it seems like right now it's life or death with the heroin addiction.
feeling not optimal on subs for a year maybe is a small price to pay.
you're young from what I understand.
you can still have a great life.
the disease of addiction can be terminal.
some discomfort for a short time would,in my eyes,be so worth it.
I didnt mean to be gloomy or get you down.
so many of my loved ones are dead from this shit.
and you have such a great spirit!
dont let it go to waste.

love,
thedawn
 
I just don't see it that way, I'm sorry... at least not right now when I still feel like I can do it without it... maybe in the future I'll feel differently. I'm glad it's working for you, but for me there's just too many risk factors... and actually, the idea of not feeling optimal on subs for a year, and then subsequently not feeling optimal OFF of them for another 6 months to God knows how long, sounds like an easy way to relapse.

I quit heroin because I wanted my quality of life to improve, you know? What's the point in even quitting if I'm just going to jump on to a maintenance drug that will make my quality of life even worse? There's no point. Trust me... I know ALL too well the way long-term Suboxone maintenance affects my body and my state of mind. Great for a few months, quickly turns into the worst hell imaginable. Suboxone is the reason I am in the position I'm in now. It's practically the bane of my entire existence lol. When I let myself even begin to consider it as a long-term thing, I'm quickly reminded how I would still be naive to heroin if I had never discovered Suboxone, and that idea is quickly thrown out.

The old timers did it without Suboxone. That tells me there is most definitely a way.

And it's cool, yeah it is kind of discouraging to hear "you're not gonna be able to do this without Suboxone", when that is the complete opposite of what I want, but it's your guys' opinions and I respect you guys as people. No worries. Like you said, I have a strong spirit... I can handle it :) <3
 
ok,that's cool,only you can realize your own vision.
I just kinda said what worked for ME.
I dont think any of us are saying you cant do it without subs.
you most definitely can.
it's what they did before subs.not that long ago.

all we are concerned about is you ODing and dying on us because of a relapse.

I respect you and your fight,xburtonchic.for real.
it's 100percent cool to disagree on how to get out of hell.
and noone is right.

much respect always.
 
I know, different things work for different people.

I'm not personally worried about ODing if I do relapse though... I've never been one to just throw caution to the wind when it comes to drugs. Ever since I was 15 and started with DXM, I've researched the shit out of anything I take. And the times I've used heroin after any period of abstinence, I always do the tiniest most miniscule test shot possible first to gauge how it's going to affect me. And I don't buy product that other people I know haven't used and survived. So please don't worry about that, if anything I'm too careful. And besides, relapse is a distinct possibility even with Suboxone. Probably even more so, seeing as how feeling shitty is one of my biggest triggers to use. Which is why I feel like Suboxone is so dangerous for me... the withdrawals last too long and give me an even larger window of time where I'm most likely to relapse. And being on it forever is obviously not an option. I'd rather die an addict than live a long, horrible quality of life on Suboxone... as much as I hate to say it, it's true...

Changing the subject though, anyone have any advice on how to deal with people who don't understand addiction at all? More specifically, my mother. When I was addicted to Norco, it was okay. Because it was a legal addiction. But the second it turned to a street drug addiction, all hell broke loose. And she absolutely refuses to be understanding about PAWS and the mood swings that come with it, which is bad, because my mom is the type to feed into my bad moods and make them infinitely worse. Or like my doctor. He knows nothing about it either, which is also bad. Like, the time I went into his office and confessed my heroin addiction for the first time. His response? "Here, have 60 Norco and taper off that." I guess he forgot about the 2 + year ordeal we went through BECAUSE of Norco. And then when I came back later on, still addicted to heroin, he had the audacity to act like I just wasn't trying. Are you fucking kidding me?! You gave an opiate addict access to a whole bunch of painkillers UNSUPERVISED... what did you think was going to happen?! For a doctor, you'd think he would be a little more educated.

But no. Instead I am surrounded by people who are kind of important figures in my life, and they are completely ignorant to what I'm dealing with, and they don't even WANT to educate themselves.

I'm not sure how to tackle that particular issue other than ignore their stupidity, but that is easier said than done.

EDIT: Lol I knew today was gonna be a bad one just by the tone of my post earlier when I reread it after posting it. Sorry to be all negative. I keep trying to remind myself I felt worse yesterday, but today is harder for some reason. I guess I expected to feel better than I do and that's why. But meh. At least I was able to go for a walk and my appetite is back... should speed things up a bit :)
 
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Really, if she can understand addiction to prescription opioids, then her understanding of heroin addiction shouldn't be any different with exception of being biased. I don't understand what you mean by feeling shitty on Suboxone. I was on Subutex for 4-years straight, and I had no issues with it, as long as I was consistent with my dosage, but having doctors drop me for no reason randomly was a big catalyst in that not working out so well. The only issue you'd have is just wanting to get high. That won't make you sick, and that won't make you get high. Regardless, the affinity and half-life of Buprenorphine will prevent you getting high from happening.

I think you're being closed off from Buprenorphine maintenance from not being able to use other opioids with it. Yeah, you may have heard about people being miserable on Suboxone, but what were they doing with themselves other than laying around waiting to be clean? Getting sober isn't going to happen just cuz you're taking some pill. I guess it's a film now. The reason you fucked up with NORCO tapering is specifically you fucking up with it. It takes a strong will to taper with full-agonists, so if you want to quit using dope, tapering with dope won't work, and if tapering with dope won't work, cold-turkey won't work either. Did you tell him you were an IV heroin user? I don't really see a MD prescribing something you can shoot up if that were the case, but that's a logical view towards it, not looking at my own experience with medical proffesionals. I've only met one psych. that was actually trying to taper properly with Buprenorphine.

I just interjected some quitting non-sense in there, because I don't understand your cry for help. You want your Mom to understand that you "need" heroin? and that she should understand your addicted, so it's okay?
 
Wow. I thought I had already explained all of your questions pretty clearly in my last post. Way to misconstrue literally everything I said.

FIRST of all, no my issue with Suboxone is NOT that it would prevent me from getting high on any opiates. Wtf? Seriously right now? How many times did I say in my last post that to me, Suboxone = relapse. How do you get "Suboxone = I can't get high anymore, damn" out of that? It wasn't Norco withdrawals that made me cave and be like, "Sure I'll take that shot you're offering me." It was 2 MONTHS of feeling like shit after getting off Suboxone. And Suboxone is what put me in direct contact with that person who was always offering it to me in the first place. Yeah I should have known better at the time. But I was still naive as fuck when it came to heroin, I hadn't seen the way it ruins peoples' lives yet, hadn't seen/known anyone that died yet... all I knew was that I felt like shit, and someone kept offering me heroin promising that it would make me feel better. And one day I caved and did it. Like I said, if I'd never discovered Suboxone, or rather if I'd done my own research instead of just trusting my doctor, I never would have met that person, and I would still be blissfully unaware of the mindfuck that is heroin addiction.

I also DID clarify how Suboxone made me feel like shit, but I guess I'll do it again. Like I already said, it was good for the first few months. It turned to hell overnight, my body stopped agreeing with it or something, idfk. It wasn't as a result of any change in dosage either, and no change in dosage fixed it. Surprise surprise, it wasn't Norco or even heroin that ruined my life to begin with, it was Suboxone. My energy and motivation plummeted, I stopped snowboarding (my passion) and once that stopped the depression got even worse... I became reclusive and literally couldn't leave my house... I lost my job... stopped going to school... it fucked me up.

Not once while I was on Suboxone (which I was on for over a year so I do know what I'm talking about) did I care to take any opiates, and I never did.

So I have a lot of good reasons to be wary of Suboxone. Not one of them includes "I can't get high anymore." That didn't even cross my mind as a reason to avoid it until you brought it up.

As for your last paragraph... no wtf. Where in there did I say anything about wanting her to understand that I "need" heroin? I don't need heroin. I don't want heroin. Heroin is not a part of my life. Wtf. I was talking about PAWS and her inability/unwillingness to learn about it... she feeds into the PAWS symptoms and makes it worse... like, I made that ridiculously clear.

But ok.

EDIT: JACKPOT (I think). Remember how I said I got severely depressed after a while on Suboxone? Well during that time, my doctor was prescribing me a bunch of anti-depressants, and I usually abandoned taking them after a while because they weren't working at the time or if they were it wasn't enough to make any real difference. Anyway I finally got around to cleaning my room and came up on a stash of prescriptions - hydroxyzine, mirtazipine, citalopram, and buproprion. Which one is best for PAWS symptoms AND is safe to take with 5-HTP (which I take every day)? Forget I mentioned the Citalopram... too similar to Lexapro which gave me horrible akathisia and is the reason I stopped taking it in the first place. And using the hydroxyzine for anxiety when it gets too bad is already a given. So between the mirtazipine (Remeron) and the buproprion (Wellbutrin), which one is better? Kinda leaning toward the Remeron because it's sedating in the beginning and also supposedly acts on kappa receptors, but idk. I'm kind of wary of anti-depressants in general so I don't even know if it's a good idea at all. Thoughts?

Should maybe also add that I take Clonodine sometimes... not sure if that interacts with anything though.
 
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I know. But they literally twisted every. single. thing. I said. It just got on my nerves that's all lol it's all good though.

Thanks :)
 
Those medicines are all crap, with the exception of hydroxyzine which might help in a placebo fashion. If anything take the clonidine. Do you really think its smart to hop on another antidepressant? Let your body heal naturally.
 
I have no idea, that's why I was asking lol. But I had kind of come to the conclusion that I'm just gonna avoid them all aside from the hydroxyzine anyway before I even saw this, so it's cool to have some confirmation... thanks :)
 
I dont know anything about those medications.. but I throw in one hundred percent with BOC. PAWS symtoms will last from a little while to two years. I also believe that if you can make it eight months you will exspierince A MASSIVE IMROVEMENT.. as a large number of the opiat receptors shut down before or at a little over seven and a half months.. but obviously this is the case if you do not use at all.. also the use of green has to be considered as you exspiereience bennifits from it use but it may prolong or prevent the neuro regulation that will cause the Paws to go away..

Is simply desciding to make the commitment on the faith that things in seven or eight short months, OR BEFORE as my opiate receptors shut down a week before five months.. It was crazy after only sleeping four or five hours a night, I had a week of increased addiction symtoms, I suddenly got really tired and slept for 14 hours a day for three days strait.. when i awoke the pins and needles frozen sunburn patch that had been sailing it demanted course all ver my body for months was gone, and it was like a big black bag over my head was taken off.. thats how well my brain started to work.. the whole exspierince was like the first day after a long dark winter, that first day where you emerge and the wind is warm, the sun is shining, and you look around, take a deap breath, stretch, shake the winter cobwebs and depression out of your head and officially shift gears into summer, (think of a none riding year;).. but I did the real deal, not even grass:\, and added limictal into the mix in an attemt to speed the process as limictal is a mood stabilizer;).

So I ask you burton.. Im sure you have earned your turns before.. yeah that damn hike starting before light is brutal, especially in the bigining.. but with every taxing step up uncut slopes we keep our minds eye on the prize, a magnificent run down untouched thigh deep champain over bottomless... so how about erning your freedom, just a little hike through some bull shit, but If you keep your eye on the prize.. a nice long ride through the rest of your life. The crazy part about the "mind fuck" of addiction is that the only place we can get to to beat it also takes us to a majical place we probaly would never have reached had we not blundered into the nightmare.. So you have two choices but they both lead to the same place. Although they are the same place one happens to still be here on this crazy blue sphere.

It only takes a little bit to walk outta hell.. why not pick up your board and start climbing and make the resolve that no matter what my "good friend" addiction, or life throws at me I'm not going to use. Just take it a day or shorter at a time.. wake up and say just for today I'm going to keep hiking up, I dont care what happens or how i feel, I know where I'm going and its to the top of this, so just for today I'm not going to use no matter what.. In a couple of 24 hours of not using.. you and your board will be at the top of this hike and ready for all the amazing things your new life has in store<3

Just for today I'm not going to use or put myself in a spot of temptation, and i will continue to hike up cause there is a top to this climb and I'm getting there no matter what.:X<3

Just a little hike burton..
tumblr_mcii48NHFh1rfiowxo1_500.jpg



and the prize.. a whole lifetime of it=D..

boarder%20laying%20it%20out.jpg
 
those pics just made me so stoked for the season haha.

I think I'm gonna be alright. There's certain aspects of being off opiates that make life feel way better than nodding off ever did. Namely music and snowboarding, they energize me in a really pure and euphoric way. I stopped making/listening to music and stopped looking forward to snowboarding right before I relapsed too. So I think that as long as I give the things that keep me going the proper attention, and realize that opiates take those things away from me and basically just leave my life empty and meaningless, I can keep saying, "fuck you heroin!" and keep on trucking <3

That was a very inspiring post btw NSA. I just don't want to give up my ganja or psychedelics, they enhance my life and spirituality in a good way. I was not a spiritual person until the first time I accidentally put myself in a 4th plateau DXM trip. I literally experienced hell and then heaven and met some sort of pure kind of entity, and it changed my ENTIRE life overnight. Maybe it seems paradoxical for some people, but every once in a while I need the introspect of psychedelics to remind myself of where I am and where I'm going spiritually. It's like I get so caught up in life sometimes that I let my spirituality fall by the wayside completely. Then they come along, always somehow at exactly the right moment, to remind me that... oh yeah... there IS a meaning for all of this, I am NOT the center of the universe, and there is something better guiding my life and waiting for me on the other side. They helped me conquer my fear of death, etc.

I mean, obviously you're probably right. Maybe it's not the best. But they've benefitted my life in too many ways for me to be able to see them as anything other than... well, a good friend, really. So at the same time, maybe they're exactly what I need every once in a while to get through the PAWS stage. After all, meditation can induce the same state as psychedelics, and we release DMT every night when we sleep and release a massive amount when we're born and again when we die - it's the same mechanism of action, it's just your body releasing the stuff by itself instead of a plant or chemical.

That's just my opinion though. I would never recommend that to other people. There's a dark side to psychedelics if they're not given the proper respect or if the right intentions for using them aren't there. I've seen many a bad trip happen that way, which is why I actually DON'T recommend them, to anyone, unless I'm 100% sure as fuck the person is really experienced and knows what they're doing. Just want to make that clear: I AM NOT RECOMMENDING THE USE OF PSYCHEDELICS IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.

But yes. I'm feeling pretty good about everything today. It's day 5 and the acute withdrawals are almooost gone. I finally slept for a whole night last night. My birthday is tomorrow. I'm going to the fair tonight. I'm seeing Krewella next month. Snowboarding season comes soon after that. Life is good man. <3
 
Guys hopefully someone can answer this because I'm freaking out and I don't know what to do. I don't know if this is PAWS or just my personality, but there is legit something wrong right now. I can't handle not doing anything, I need something to stimulate me CONSTANTLY whether it's people or music or extreme sports. Basically just the things I'm into haha... but if I don't have something going on, I start getting depressed and shit.

I don't know how to just chill and relax anymore :/

And I'm kind of dealing with a rejection right now which is making it worse. I don't fucking know what to do with myself. I still don't have a job yet, which means no money to spend. I'm literally STUCK AT HOME GOING FUCKING INSANE.

I cant.
 
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