"I'm afraid you didn't get 15pts" - EADD Benefits Thread

[charlie clean]

The '9%' figure came from the 'Today' programme on Radio 4. Not the most diligent research, I admit, but you'd think they'd get it right. ( Cue 'commies at the bbc' statistics from North Korea's secret weapon.. )

 

[knock]

The '9%' figure came from the 'Today' programme on Radio 4. Not the most diligent research, I admit, but you'd think they'd get it right. ( Cue 'commies at the bbc' statistics from North Korea's secret weapon.. )

I've reproduced it over in the debate thread. I'm glad that I and Today's researchers come up with similar figures!

 

[Cornishman]

Cornish, need more details. Why was your ESA stopped? What exactly did they say about not being able to claim for six months?

I doubt you will be eligible for DLA. It's not an out-of-work benefit, it's to provide support and equipment for people with significant mobility or care needs. You need to be pretty ill to get it.

I no longer have the letter so unfortunately I can't give you better information. Basically it had ran its course and I had since gone back into employment.

I spoke to them on the phone today and they told me the 6 month thing was just part of the rules.

Guess I'll have to appeal for the time being.

 

[Marmalade]

My guess Cornish, and it is just a guess, is that a JSA claim is where you want to be. And as soon as you claim on JSA (since you are actually trying to find a job, you're just too sick to find one atm) you should also submit your sicknote to them, so they can sign you off sick.

As far as I know, you've not had any long term absence from work that's been DLA related, and as you're not registered disabled, and have been generally capable of work then JSA will be where it's best to go. there are rules and regs about sickness on JSA, and I'll do my best to check out what they are in the next few hours from the people I know who are claiming.

I'll hazzard a guess that being signed off on sick (due to short term sign off and generic issues) will just mean that you can submit your sicknote to them, and avoid having to officially look for work for the period of your sicknote, and wont have to go in to sign on, or attend any courses/meetings either, or provide the mandatory evidence JSA have to provide to show they're seeking employment

 

[Treacle]

JSA will be the only one you'll get. I had to do the same. I'd like to know about the rules on sickness, on JSA. I told them I was unwell, etc. and I was basically told I had to do what everyone else does - just deal with it. That £350 a week sounds great - I never got anywhere near that. I've had to come up with a self-employment idea, so I can work from home, as they obviously don't believe I have crippling anxiety. I don't want to work for anyone again, anyway, after having a taste of self-employment. Fuck your benefits, Cleggeron.

 

[TheSpade]

A taste of self employment? You told us last week you were signing on still.

No one believes you have crippling anxiety.

 

[StretchOutAndWait]

That £350 a week sounds great - I never got anywhere near that.

The £350 figure seems to have caused persistent confusion in this thread.

No single people are getting anywhere near £350/week in JSA or ESA or even the highest rate of DLA (which I believe is slightly over £100/week). The point of the benefit cap is that it's a cap: the maximum amount that anyone will be able to claim per week from April 2013. The gov could have set it at £1m/week - it wouldn't mean that people were routinely receiving this amount of money in welfare benefits (although doubtless some people would assume that this was the case).

Check out: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTa...herSupport/BeginnersGuideToBenefits/DG_201734

 

[parttime crackhead]

Why are people kicking off about the "cap" then? What does it matter if no cunt was getting that much anyway?

 

[StretchOutAndWait]

Well, in general I think people are more concerned about the £500/week household cap. To clarify once again, before we get all the "who the fuck needs £500 a week?" comments, this is not disposable income, it includes Housing Benefit and it is not per person but for the entire families. Rent on properties with more than 2 bedrooms where I live (a large city) is often more than £400/week. This will clearly fuck over a lot of people.

The single person cap is also somewhat concerning. I know someone who needs a lot of money for care and modifications because he is quite severely disabled (yes, more than £350/week including rent, much of this for very expensive carers). He should be exempt from the cap for two reasons:

1. Being in the ESA Support Group
2. Being in in receipt of DLA

However, in February he was moved into the ESA Work Related Activity Group, and so is not currently exempt for this reason. He has been appealing ever since and DWP have displayed exemplary incompetence - losing letters, not returning calls, not receiving faxes etc. The appeal remains ongoing.

That's OK for the moment because of the DLA. But as this becomes Personal Independence Payment (PIP) next year and everyone is forced to apply again, there's a pretty decent chance he will be found ineligible, at least the first time (I suspect an appeal would be successful). If his ESA is not sorted by this time (fairly likely), his money will be massively cut and ultimately he will face not being able to pay for his care or his accommodation.

Speculative, sure. But if I was him I'd be pretty anxious about it.

 

[Marmalade]

Cornish: I looked up your ESA/JSA quandary yesterday and found some really good links. Have you got on any further with what you're entitled to?

I'll post my links this evening. What i read was ultimately fucking depressing beyond words tbh. The new system is really fucking complex in terms of both qualifying areas and lengths you can claim certain benefits. And it's only gonna get worse in the next few years when the 1 year time scale for claiming contributions based ESA ceases for many ex DLA claimants. Awful stuff

I don't think JSA is where you should be. You can only have 2 weeks sick per year on JSA, so that rules you out immediately with your 3 month sick note, unless someone else has got some other info to the contrary.

I'm maybe assuming here, but perhaps it was contributions based ESA you were turned down for?
There are 2 types of ESA. Contributions based ESA and Income based ESA.
I think you seem to be entitled to claim Income based ESA but as I'm not 100% sure of your circumstances, I'll post the qualifying regs in a bit when I've pulled em from my laptop.

[edit]

Benefits Now <---- Breaks down the all the various different benefits, and links you to the qualifying requirements of them all

JSA Qualifying"

ESA Qualifying

Income-related ESA

Contributions-related ESA

found this blog piece yesterday, which clearly outlines how the changes will affect those being swapped from C ESA to IR ESA ... a pretty shocking read

The end of ESA
by Claudia Wood

Today marks a watershed in the history of the Welfare State. It is the last day that the contributory principle – the concept of social insurance that underpinned Beveridge’s vision – remains in tact. Because tomorrow, 70,000 ill and disabled people will lose their Contributory Employment and Support Allowance – a benefit that provides financial support for those who become unemployed due to illness or disability, in return for the national insurance contributions they made during their working life.

160,000 people will eventually lose ESA this year. But they won’t lose this benefit because the amount they contributed in national insurance is inadequate. Oh no. They will lose their ESA because the Government has decided that those claiming C-ESA should only be able to claim it for one year – regardless of how much they have contributed.

One year, the Government reasons, is plenty of time for a disabled person to find a job. This rule only applies to those in the Work Related Activity Group, after all – a group who have been judged to be capable of work at some point in the future. So by “in the future” one must now read “in twelve months”.

For those who don’t manage to find a job in this time frame, means testing is in order. “Income based” ESA is available, but people with more than £16,000 savings or a partner who works more than 24 hours per week are ineligible. The remaining option is JobSeeker’s Allowance - at nearly £30 less per week, with additional penalties attached for (for example) missing an interview, and with less disability-specific welfare to work support. But this is also time limited, to six months, before means testing applies.

Let me give an example. Mr Smith is a 58 year old man who has been working all of his life. He has to leave his job following a stroke and applies for ESA. His work capability assessment concludes he will be capable of working at some point in the future and so he is placed in the WRAG group. Now, after a year, Mr Smith’s ESA stops. As his wife works, he isn’t entitled to income-based ESA, so his only option is to claim JobSeeker’s Allowance. The state no longer recognises Mr Smith’s 40 years of National Insurance contributions, and the greater difficulties he faces in finding a job at nearly sixty and in poor health.

Mr Smith will receive “contributory” JSA but after six months, in a parallel to the ESA process, Mr Smith will be means tested for income-based JSA and, as his wife works, will probably be found ineligible. So Mr Smith is in a situation where, having paid insurance premiums against illness and employment all his life, he will have no financial support for this after 18 months. Remember, Mr Smith has not yet been found “fit to work”. Mr Smith remains disabled.

The time limits for ESA and JSA are wholly arbitrary. For ESA, the DWP explained: “One year was selected as the best balance between providing people claiming contributory ESA.. with enough support and reducing the cost of contributory ESA.” – picked from thin air, in other words, and not linked in any way to the health of the job market or the actual time it takes disabled people to find a job. And the result is extremely punitive. 90 per cent of those claiming ESA will lose the benefit as a result of the time limit, because one year to find a job, in this economic environment, is a stretch for many people – let alone someone with additional health needs.

And how many people are we talking about? Well, 400,000 people will lose their contributory ESA this year, starting tomorrow. Of these 400,000, 40 per cent will fail the means test for income based ESA and have to claim Job Seeker’s Allowance instead. That’s 160,000 disabled people, each losing £28 per week. Most of these 160,000 disabled people will then find themselves with no support whatsoever within a further 6 months after their “contributory” JSA runs out.

But alongside this human cost, there is a greater reason we should all vociferously oppose the time limitation of C-ESA. It is because it breaks the reciprocity principle. It removes the “insurance” from “national insurance” by replacing a contributory benefit with a means tested one.

All of us pay National Insurance so that they are insured against illness and inability to work. From tomorrow, it doesn’t matter that you’ve “paid in” for 40 years. You only get one year back in return. The average amount we pay over our working lives (of around 40 years) in National Insurance is £78,040. For this sum, people like Mr Smith rightly expect the social insurance system will provide financial support for as long as he remains disabled and unemployed. Instead, he will receive less than £5k in ESA support before receiving around £1800 in JSA. And that’s his lot.

The Government is fond of talking about “fairness” in relation to welfare reform. Fairness means we help the hard working taxpayer, and penalise the workshy scrounger. But tomorrow, along with the other 160,000 hard working taxpayers being cut off, this will ring pretty hollow for Mr Smith.

 

[Treacle]

A taste of self employment? You told us last week you were signing on still.

No one believes you have crippling anxiety.

I'm hardly making anything, at the moment, so I'm not signing off. I think that's fair.

 

[brimz]

i'll be up shit creak soon pray for me

 

[TheSpade]

You might think it's fair Treacle, the dole office would probably you a benefit cheat. Be careful...

 

[Marmalade]

i'll be up shit creak soon pray for me

will do. Hope you weather the changes and you don't get fucked over. I edited my post to Cornish & put some links in which put some things in perspective for me a bit. Depressing stuff unfortunately

 

[Cornishman]

Thank you miss Marmz for your uber comprehensive post. x

I'm still waiting on a reply regarding my questionnaire thingy from atos, but after reading that I think I should've gone for IR ESA instead.
I might be 'lucky' tho. My crippling anxiety is so effing bad I think whoever does my score sheet will feel really bad for me tbh.

"Poor guy. He definitely deserves benefits" is what they will say.

 

[monstanoodle]

"....He looks after his cats despite feeling low and tired. This represents sufficiant capacity to initiate tasks for the purpose of the assessment."

H o w - t h e - f u c k is looking after cats hard???
Anyone with most any mental health issues could feed a cat, unless they were in a completely different world due to very bad psychotic symptoms. But that's all you need to do, feed it and stroke it.
Fucking idiots! This was on a list of other stuff (I can take my meds daily [they make me feel fucking human so why wouldn't I??] wash and dress [the former not always because I'm a dutty bastard], have a hot drink [yep, seriously hard task that] and do housework despite joint problems [I don't always do it due to depression and if my back or knees hurt you just fuckin push through with some Ibuprofen ffs ] but they've not really considered my mental health deeply enough at all).

Apparently I gave "a good, clear history of past and recent events and did not appear unduly distressed during the interview..."
.... I was shaking, I was muddling my words, stuttering and my mind would go completely blank while trying to explain things like the word I needed was just oblitorated from my mind. And when she asked me if I had a suicide plan, I asked with teary eyes if I had to tell her what it was....

The rest of the Decision Maker's reasons were total bollocks also. So I've started the appeal forms, writing completely in block capitals when you've a lot to write about it quite tiring for the hand More so than trying to have a wank on Citalopram!
Gunna make sure I don't give these cunts any space to try fuck me over because they will, they'll do whatever they can.
Thankfully the people who conduct the appeal are independent and aren't connected to either the DWP or ATOSsers.

Anyway, I'm in loads of stress at the moment and it's fucking me over rather well, but got to do this ASAP.

Loads of good luck and much love to everyone else going through this

 

[koneko]

Sorry to hear this monsta your distress and anger are coming over load and clear in that post - use that angry energy and focus it on them and get what you're due. But please dont let the process ground you down any further.

 

[Marmalade]

Jesus Monstah

Obviously you definitely want to appeal. I think I can help a bit with that, although what I have to offer might not be of much use. I'll PM you today. I know first hand the stress of the whole thing is fucking horrendous after going through it with my sister over the last 20 years or so.

Keep strong monsta. I imagine you've got at least 6 months ahead of no man's land since the volume of appeals generally is going to be huge. I think I read somewhere that they're still dealing with the appeals from the last wave.

Really feel for you tons. Knowing how unbelievably stressful the situation is, and how devastating the process, can you imagine trying to fight in this situation if you're totally alone, it would be impossible. It's a truly inhumane process because they provide little in way of support to guide you through it, it fundamentally puts a lot of people at the mercy of a private company which is given a monetary incentive to ensure they assess you as not being entitled to DLA. . They have targets to meet, and the Government's decision was to scrap 20% from the DLA budget, but it wasn't based on any in depth research whatsoever. I remember it being discussed on NewsNight when they announced it, and the decision was made by the one Female Minister in charge of it, based on a very small report, conducted over a very short space of time. And even she couldn't explain where the Government came up with the 20% reduction ... and that's because it wasn't decided after looking at DLA as a whole, it was just a cut plucked out of thin air as a convenient figure the Govnt blanketly gave her as part of their need for overall cuts from the benefits budget to offset the deficit following the recession and banking crisis. So now, ATOS are targeted to achieve that budget ... a budget based on no degree of reality or people's genuine needs.

Fucking lunacy

How are you meant to fight such a decision when the whole system is against you, and Doctors don't even do the assessment. The ATOS assessors aren't even specially trained in mental health issues

 

[koneko]

Marmalade that is such a good post, thank you for being here and helping out. I'm at a loss to what to say...I pay tax and can not get my head around how this suffering is allowed. Sorry for being useless.

 

[done juan]

its important for everyone to appeal in cases like this regardless of what you think will happen.