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AADD Moderators: andyturbo
Ice: is it worth the high?
- Thread starter Dirty_Deed
- Start date
johnboy said:
^^
you got it
As for which addictions being more serious or harmful than others, i dont think any can really judge that, all addictions harm people differently and it depends on your perception of these addictions. Personally i dont think there are any that are more harmful, everyone knows the risks of what they do and have to accept the consquences.
Ask a person who is addicted to all those things mentioned above, and see if they can tell you which is worse!
Scatteredasfuck
Bluelighter
Runner,BT & all, this is unfortunately where I stand also..peace people... we live 'the' life just like you!!!
I personally think Ice is a very controlling drug on some
Some of my best mates to be exact!!! Been friend for 5 or more years then...bang! Sure it could be a lot of other contributing factors but this was definitely the icing on the cake...excuse the pun
Seriously this made us as distant as I have ever been to a still living individual Take care people...be informed first!Scatteredasfuck
Bluelighter
Let's not shift blame...let us look for a solution!
Evil Witch
Bluelighter
this certainly is an interesting discussion.
having never used ice, i can't properly participate, but i've used meth before, and i would definately classify it as a substance best used in moderation and with some care.
i also reckon dirty deed has done a good point trying to get his point across.
a few people here have taken the "it's not the drug, it's the person" argument. generally i agree. but you do have to wonder - maybe some substances are just basically unsafe when within the reach of certain members of society. some people just can't help themselves, no matter how much counselling etc they'll recieve. they will always turn back to drugs with a high escapism potential like ice or meth. this is simply how they were built. i can't help wondering whether for the sake of these such people drugs like ice or meth really should be taken off the streets for good (somehow). i mean, in terms of the social viabilty of the drug, does the short lived feeling of well being for a few thousand people (on weekends or whatever) throughout the state compensate for the amount of lives it utterly decimates? personally i think not.
My 2c.
having never used ice, i can't properly participate, but i've used meth before, and i would definately classify it as a substance best used in moderation and with some care.
i also reckon dirty deed has done a good point trying to get his point across.
a few people here have taken the "it's not the drug, it's the person" argument. generally i agree. but you do have to wonder - maybe some substances are just basically unsafe when within the reach of certain members of society. some people just can't help themselves, no matter how much counselling etc they'll recieve. they will always turn back to drugs with a high escapism potential like ice or meth. this is simply how they were built. i can't help wondering whether for the sake of these such people drugs like ice or meth really should be taken off the streets for good (somehow). i mean, in terms of the social viabilty of the drug, does the short lived feeling of well being for a few thousand people (on weekends or whatever) throughout the state compensate for the amount of lives it utterly decimates? personally i think not.
My 2c.
Dirty_Deed
Bluelighter
I'm happy to see such respones to this topic at hand 
I want to say, maybe I am wrong or right, maybe we are all wrong in one sense and right in another...but it's good to see that this post is making ppl think more about this issue, rather than dismissing it all together....We can't shift blame, but we can at least explore the value and detriments that this drug has on us and our society in general...thank you all for taking the time to respond, and for having an open mind.....I hope that this post will help some ppl realise whether they have a problem with meth or not.....Or whether they have a friend or loved one who may have a problem themselves...
Peace Out
Dirty Deed
I want to say, maybe I am wrong or right, maybe we are all wrong in one sense and right in another...but it's good to see that this post is making ppl think more about this issue, rather than dismissing it all together....We can't shift blame, but we can at least explore the value and detriments that this drug has on us and our society in general...thank you all for taking the time to respond, and for having an open mind.....I hope that this post will help some ppl realise whether they have a problem with meth or not.....Or whether they have a friend or loved one who may have a problem themselves...
Peace Out
Dirty Deed
BigTrancer
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2000
- Messages
- 7,342
Evil Witch: I see your point. However, what more can a society do to protect the people who have no appreciation or care for the consequences of their actions? Meth is illegal, the police bust everyone they can find who's making it, importing it, selling it. The people who find themselves dependent upon this drug have gone out of their way to obtain it illegally, and thus circumvented every measure put in place to protect them from making the 'wrong' choice for themselves.
How far can you go to try and protect people from making choices that will have a deleterious effect on their lives? If they're going to take the step of breaking the law and risking criminal convictions, chemical dependence, damage to their health and mental wellbeing, what can you do short of locking them up? Furthermore, if you're going to take away someone's free will and prevent them from making the conscious decision to take drugs, should they also be prevented from being in violent relationships, gambling, having unsafe sex, driving their car too fast, not wearing seatbelts, going out in winter without a jacket on, and getting obese from eating the wrong foods?
People need to understand that there are consequences for EVERY action they take. When you're a kid, consequences for the actions you can take are usually fairly benign. However adult games (like the above) have adult consequences, and the world has no obligation to ensure people's safety. The ultimate responsibility is their own, and if they fall 'victim' to their own lack of appreciation of the consequences, it's nobody elses fault.
BigTrancer
How far can you go to try and protect people from making choices that will have a deleterious effect on their lives? If they're going to take the step of breaking the law and risking criminal convictions, chemical dependence, damage to their health and mental wellbeing, what can you do short of locking them up? Furthermore, if you're going to take away someone's free will and prevent them from making the conscious decision to take drugs, should they also be prevented from being in violent relationships, gambling, having unsafe sex, driving their car too fast, not wearing seatbelts, going out in winter without a jacket on, and getting obese from eating the wrong foods?
People need to understand that there are consequences for EVERY action they take. When you're a kid, consequences for the actions you can take are usually fairly benign. However adult games (like the above) have adult consequences, and the world has no obligation to ensure people's safety. The ultimate responsibility is their own, and if they fall 'victim' to their own lack of appreciation of the consequences, it's nobody elses fault.
BigTrancer
Dirty_Deed
Bluelighter
Nobody elses falut?!?! I understand the concept of the drugs don't make addicts, ppl become addicts bullshit...But really, there is a lot more to this than a concious and willing decision. I find this argument no different to the NRA's "Guns don't kill people; people kill people" mind frame. Sure, guns are designed for death, but they can be used recreationally for such purposes as skeet shooting and hunting, but this doesn't stop society from abhoring the practice of gun ownership none-the-less. Ice is obviously manufactured and distributed because of its highly addictive characteristics...it's not dealt so people can enjoy it on the weekends in moderation. Yes, the individual is the first at fault, but what about the dealers who are clearly "pushing" ice in the utmost sense. As a society, we cannot ensure the total eradication of a substance, but we can at least potray ice for what it is: a new junkie market. If the same attitude that the mods have taken were employed for heroin abuse, there would never have been a decline in its use. We cannot stop it, but we can at least emphasise how shitty it is. How many ppl are willing to do heroin these days?? Any hands up?? Fuck ALL!! Now how many people are willing to do ice these days?!? FUCKING PLENTY!!! The only real sollution to the overall drug problem in society would be total legalisation and goverment control...but until that happens, I for one would rather demonise this substance to potential users rather than glamorise or take light of its effects. I would not like to see the exponential increase of its popularity which is apparent and can't be stupidly disregarded by fucking weekend meth users who seem to defend this substance like Charlton Heston holding his rifle high up in the air.
Another thing, I have also seen a remarkable trend of young girls who are doing ice to lose weight and such....this only adds to whatver anorexic symptoms (usually nervosa) they may already have, and ice also makes one lose an unhealthy amount of weight in a short period.......So this drug is obviously preying on individuals who aren't in a stable mind set to make their own decisions as such....
Blame the individual all you like, but remember....a drug isn't taken unless it's available...who makes it available?? People (dealers)
And I for one will not support those fuckwit ice dealers, they are the lowest form of life IMO....
Peace Out
Dirty Deed
Another thing, I have also seen a remarkable trend of young girls who are doing ice to lose weight and such....this only adds to whatver anorexic symptoms (usually nervosa) they may already have, and ice also makes one lose an unhealthy amount of weight in a short period.......So this drug is obviously preying on individuals who aren't in a stable mind set to make their own decisions as such....
Blame the individual all you like, but remember....a drug isn't taken unless it's available...who makes it available?? People (dealers)
And I for one will not support those fuckwit ice dealers, they are the lowest form of life IMO....
Peace Out
Dirty Deed
randomblondeboy
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2000
- Messages
- 1,632
Dirty_Deed said:
ermmm....99% of people i know who regularly use meth do so to enjoy it on the weekends in moderation.
also, hate to bring up the meth/ice thing...but...its really starting to shit me, unless someone has test results comfirming 4-mar, can we just say meth??!
Dirty_Deed
Bluelighter
Hmmm...fair enough...meth...you happy?!?!
Well, it's funny how you arer now projecting your own bias on meth use. You are lucky to know ppl who can enjoy it in moderation as a presume that you all enjoy it together and are at the same threshold of use. But there are others who have pointed out that it has drastically either affected them or ppl they know/care about. Thanks for that anyway Mr. Heston....But there are still groups of ppl (a nice chunk) who abuse this drug, and it isn't a small fraction...if it was up to the dealers, they would rather have you and your mates hooked......Don't support an industry that obviously doesn't regard ppl like you as a prominent part of their market......
Well, it's funny how you arer now projecting your own bias on meth use. You are lucky to know ppl who can enjoy it in moderation as a presume that you all enjoy it together and are at the same threshold of use. But there are others who have pointed out that it has drastically either affected them or ppl they know/care about. Thanks for that anyway Mr. Heston....But there are still groups of ppl (a nice chunk) who abuse this drug, and it isn't a small fraction...if it was up to the dealers, they would rather have you and your mates hooked......Don't support an industry that obviously doesn't regard ppl like you as a prominent part of their market......
SteveElektro
Bluelighter
ROTFLMAO!!Dirty_Deed said:
Pot...Kettle.....You get the picture.
Your argument really stinks of moralism, nothing more. Calling meth dealers 'the lowest form of life' is pretty damn ignorant too.
You've decided to label meth and heroin as 'evil' or whatever, can't you see the stupidity in this? I guess any drug that you take yourself and enjoy isn't evil yeah?
The only problem that exists is a lack of education in the communtiy, nothing more. And from what I have read in this thread, you could use some education about this yourself.
Timmmmmy
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2001
- Messages
- 548
Dirty_Deed: one is starting to get the idea that meth has gotten the better of you!?!
my attitude is if you can't control it, or can but lack the moral judgement and general intelligence to define control (which equates to lack of control anyway), then you shouldn't touch it. period
my attitude is if you can't control it, or can but lack the moral judgement and general intelligence to define control (which equates to lack of control anyway), then you shouldn't touch it. period
randomblondeboy
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2000
- Messages
- 1,632
my god look at his posts over the past week....i think he's on the comedown from hell right now or something! a week ago he was all tough and telling everyone how to be a dealer and be cool, now meth's evil and dealers are gutter trash scum...needs to make up his mind methinks. (or just come clean and tell us what the fuck he's trying to get at)
poor thing.
poor thing.
Flexistentialist
Bluelight Crew
Dirty_Deed said:
Do you think demonising drugs will stop someone taking them?
Who here is glamorisng the effects of more pure methamphetamine? You act like people in Australia have never taken methamphetamine before. I can tell you that potent forms of methamphetamine have been around for years.
I have an article in front of me from the ABC in 1999, talking about the dangerous new "ice" methamphetamine. I'm not sure if you've noticed, but for the last three years there's been several periods of media beat ups about the new designer dance date drug something "ice" (methamphetamine). Since that time, its quite clear there has been no "exponential rise" in methamphetmaine use. The 2001 National Household Survey (which refers to "amphetamine" as including methamphetamine) has this to say:
Methamphetamine is methamphetamine is methamphetamine. Women have long been known to use meth/amphetmine for weight loss. There's research on this going back at least a decade, probably more.
Heroin use was lower in the last National Household Survey mainly due to the heroin drought. Watch for the next one that has rates return to previous levels. Or better yet, check out the rates of precription opiate use by IDUs. Heroin use wasn't down because you think its become "wrong" or something.
Extrapolating generalisations about whole groups of people or chemicals from your personal experience of the world is a silly mistake to fall into.
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DreadQ
Bluelighter
i think if you conside some ppl taking pills for years and years.
then some ppl taking meth.... they last months not years in comparison.... and i am aware of quite a few that actually request that 'ICE' no be available and the normal speed is now preferable because ICE is just to hardcore and ya cant do it for long.
I Think its a fact that you will 'BURN out' on ICE a lot quicker than any other drug. hell ya could shoot herion for 10 years and do fine but if you did the same with ICE you onlee last a few months. . . garanteed!
moderation is the key.
then some ppl taking meth.... they last months not years in comparison.... and i am aware of quite a few that actually request that 'ICE' no be available and the normal speed is now preferable because ICE is just to hardcore and ya cant do it for long.
I Think its a fact that you will 'BURN out' on ICE a lot quicker than any other drug. hell ya could shoot herion for 10 years and do fine but if you did the same with ICE you onlee last a few months. . . garanteed!
moderation is the key.
yes
I can only speak on my experience but personally when i first started smoking ice, i enjoyed it. but i think more than anything i enjoyed the social aspect of it more than the sitting up for days on end. something about passing the pipe and just chilling with friends i came to like a whole lot and wanted to do more and more....it got to the point that we were having maybe 2-3 grams a saturday night alone.
i didnt realise it at the time but i had developed a craving for it.but then as soon as i realised this....i just stopped.
personally i think if u want to stop you can,thats if u REALLY want to.
i woke up and went this aint worth it...its costing me a fortune and im not really getting all that much from it other than lost sleep....i prefer my pills.
i think its a personal thing...if u want to stop then u can...but if u dont...and if its not screwing your life up then there is no real reason to...then u wont.
lately i been seeing tho a lot of shit stuff around....people bashing it with sugar and things like that......just like all drugs...they get popular someone tries to fuck with it and ends up fucking it all up.
I can only speak on my experience but personally when i first started smoking ice, i enjoyed it. but i think more than anything i enjoyed the social aspect of it more than the sitting up for days on end. something about passing the pipe and just chilling with friends i came to like a whole lot and wanted to do more and more....it got to the point that we were having maybe 2-3 grams a saturday night alone.
i didnt realise it at the time but i had developed a craving for it.but then as soon as i realised this....i just stopped.
personally i think if u want to stop you can,thats if u REALLY want to.
i woke up and went this aint worth it...its costing me a fortune and im not really getting all that much from it other than lost sleep....i prefer my pills.
i think its a personal thing...if u want to stop then u can...but if u dont...and if its not screwing your life up then there is no real reason to...then u wont.
lately i been seeing tho a lot of shit stuff around....people bashing it with sugar and things like that......just like all drugs...they get popular someone tries to fuck with it and ends up fucking it all up.
DiSturBeD_1
Bluelighter
Ice, its a bit fked up
Ice, well lets see...
2 of my friends had some really really strong ice... one of them had a nervous breakdown... the other totally looped out for about 3 days, he is a heavy user - now in jail because he was having 2.5g of meth a day and went and did robberies and shit liek that.
Personally I won't take meth or ice anymore, well not in its crystal form, its just too strong. I try and tell every1 that its too much for their brains to handle.
Ahh alas me ranting and raving - u get that when u have had 45min sleep and a hard nite :D
But yeah, plain good old street speed is fine, most ppl dont realise that the crystal and the street speed are the same drug, just in varying purity, but then i also suppose i'm preaching to teh converted here right.
*wanders off to eat some more magnesium, l-tyrosine etc*
Ice, well lets see...
2 of my friends had some really really strong ice... one of them had a nervous breakdown... the other totally looped out for about 3 days, he is a heavy user - now in jail because he was having 2.5g of meth a day and went and did robberies and shit liek that.
Personally I won't take meth or ice anymore, well not in its crystal form, its just too strong. I try and tell every1 that its too much for their brains to handle.
Ahh alas me ranting and raving - u get that when u have had 45min sleep and a hard nite :D
But yeah, plain good old street speed is fine, most ppl dont realise that the crystal and the street speed are the same drug, just in varying purity, but then i also suppose i'm preaching to teh converted here right.
*wanders off to eat some more magnesium, l-tyrosine etc*
I hear u Disturbed. but what is wrong with crushing the ice as finely as humanly possible and then cutting it yourself say 1:1 or 1:2 with glucose?
Makes for decently strong and CLEAN meth, unlike "street" speed you describe.
Thats generally what i do as i dont smoke it; i got no problem with cut gear if I do the cutting!
Of course one must be extremely careful to crush the absolute SHIT out of it otherwise your poor nose is not the same...i'd almost say indefinitely - at least i am still waiting to recover.
Makes for decently strong and CLEAN meth, unlike "street" speed you describe.
Thats generally what i do as i dont smoke it; i got no problem with cut gear if I do the cutting!
Of course one must be extremely careful to crush the absolute SHIT out of it otherwise your poor nose is not the same...i'd almost say indefinitely - at least i am still waiting to recover.
Pill Piglet
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2003
- Messages
- 18
Hi.
I just wanted to add that me and my friends have been using drugs (Pills and Wiz) for a while now - mainly only weekends, clubbing and there has never been a problem until some people got their hands on Ice. It has changed a few people - their attitudes, the way they talk to people, their priority is now no longer dancing and having fun, but simply smoking crystal. When we are at a club, they will leave every hour or so to go to the car to have a smoke. They don't care about anything else as long as they get their smoke. This I can't see as being healthy. Unfortunatly also many have taken to having the smoke during the week. The worse thing is, I can't talk to them about it because they don't think anything is wrong and that if I mention it, they think I am turning against them in some way. The way I see it is that it has changed from being recreational drug use where the drug is used to enhance the night out, to now the drug is the main priority. I have it myself occasionally and have been in situations where I've realised that I was so keen for a smoke and I didn't know why - because often I found once your already high, it doesn't do much more for you. I have felt how easily I could become addicted to it. I'm scared of it as a drug cause I've seen what it can do and I don't know how to help my friends who are controlled by it.
Sorry to go on, but going out for recreational drug use has always been fun and exciting, until now that Ice is involved, it has become life changing and shown how really serious this is.
I'd just like to say to anyone who hasn't tried it - don't!!! Don't tempt fate.
I just wanted to add that me and my friends have been using drugs (Pills and Wiz) for a while now - mainly only weekends, clubbing and there has never been a problem until some people got their hands on Ice. It has changed a few people - their attitudes, the way they talk to people, their priority is now no longer dancing and having fun, but simply smoking crystal. When we are at a club, they will leave every hour or so to go to the car to have a smoke. They don't care about anything else as long as they get their smoke. This I can't see as being healthy. Unfortunatly also many have taken to having the smoke during the week. The worse thing is, I can't talk to them about it because they don't think anything is wrong and that if I mention it, they think I am turning against them in some way. The way I see it is that it has changed from being recreational drug use where the drug is used to enhance the night out, to now the drug is the main priority. I have it myself occasionally and have been in situations where I've realised that I was so keen for a smoke and I didn't know why - because often I found once your already high, it doesn't do much more for you. I have felt how easily I could become addicted to it. I'm scared of it as a drug cause I've seen what it can do and I don't know how to help my friends who are controlled by it.
Sorry to go on, but going out for recreational drug use has always been fun and exciting, until now that Ice is involved, it has become life changing and shown how really serious this is.
I'd just like to say to anyone who hasn't tried it - don't!!! Don't tempt fate.