Venting I just hate being sober

[LucidSDreamr]

You're talking from experience? Sounds like a good reason to stop then... If both suck, prefer the cheaper one.

You think drugs are expensive?

Wait until the medical bills from all the damage drugs did to your body show up.


On a seperate note maybe you might resonate with the ideologies of antinatalism and elifism. I know I really did and I thought life was so stupid and pointless drugs were the only answer…and even drugs were stupid and pointless and there is no answer. Life is just stupid. These two philosophies I mentioned really delve into this concept and what we can do to contribute to this “problem”

 

[paltatomate]

@Mushoku_Sensei
I get you.
Be good to yourself.

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

this will sound simple but it works :

create multiple "symbolic chairs" around the house or outside. when bad thoughts enter the brain immediately acknowledge them and say hello to them.

then take the thoughts to "the chairs" and sit them down. immediately speak to one's self with positive thoughts to re-program the brain.

if we tell ourselves bad things, that is what the brain reminds us of constantly.

one practice it to repeat over and over " I am safe. I am safe, I am safe, I am safe, I am safe...."

Hmm. Thanks for the idea, that's sweet of you. What kinds of thoughts is it meant for? Sounds like anxiety treatment? But I don't have that...

 

[Them Witches]

Hmm. Thanks for the idea, that's sweet of you. What kinds of thoughts is it meant for? Sounds like anxiety treatment? But I don't have that...

it works for all kinds of thoughts, depression, anxiety, delusional, etc.

it is welcoming the bad thoughts by saying hello then learning to sit them down to wait while uploading better thoughts

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

You think drugs are expensive?

I do

Wait until the medical bills from all the damage drugs did to your body show up.

Luckily I live in a country with public health care, so no problem -- just joking. I get it. And I'm working on harm reduction. I really do... Despite certain slips. I'm careful.

On a seperate note maybe you might resonate with the ideologies of antinatalism

I have 3 kids

and elifism.

You mean elitism? I had to look that one up

I know I really did and I thought life was so stupid and pointless drugs were the only answer…and even drugs were stupid and pointless and there is no answer. Life is just stupid. These two philosophies I mentioned really delve into this concept and what we can do to contribute to this “problem”

This requires more mental energy than currently available. I'll try again tomorrow...

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I do

Luckily I live in a country with public health care, so no problem -- just joking. I get it. And I'm working on harm reduction. I really do... Despite certain slips. I'm careful.

I have 3 kids

You mean elitism? I had to look that one up

This requires more mental energy than currently available. I'll try again tomorrow...

There are plenty of antinatalists that have kids. It’s really about more than just being child free. That’s not even the core of it…I don’t really like the name because it associates the ideology with the “child free” ideology and the latter is really more about selfishness and antinatalism is based on compassion but also focused on the pointless ness of life as a core issue - it certainly doesn’t have a solution for you though or for anyone already born, so don’t expect that - but a lot of the people that find this ideology have a pessimistic about life - others love their life but being overly compassionate drives them the antinatalism

And no I meant efilism. Not elitism.

It was just nice to find an ideology that made sense of concepts I had thought of myself but weren’t fully developed since I just thought of them on my own.

 

[Them Witches]

I do

Luckily I live in a country with public health care, so no problem -- just joking. I get it. And I'm working on harm reduction. I really do... Despite certain slips. I'm careful.

I have 3 kids

You mean elitism? I had to look that one up

This requires more mental energy than currently available. I'll try again tomorrow...

I have friends in Germany. One of them is an engineer at Mercedes Benz. They have really fast Lotus Elise with Honda engines swapped in them.

 

[chippermonk]

Elfism? Is that kind of like dwarfism or fairyism?
Nice!

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

There are plenty of antinatalists that have kids. It’s really about more than just being child free. That’s not even the core of it…I don’t really like the name because it associates the ideology with the “child free” ideology and the latter is really more about selfishness and antinatalism is based on compassion but also focused on the pointless ness of life as a core issue - it certainly doesn’t have a solution for you though or for anyone already born, so don’t expect that - but a lot of the people that find this ideology have a pessimistic about life - others love their life but being overly compassionate drives them the antinatalism

And no I meant efilism. Not elitism.

It was just nice to find an ideology that made sense of concepts I had thought of myself but weren’t fully developed since I just thought of them on my own.

Oho! I see... So if it's compassion, what about the wish of the creature to live? Have you seen people/animals fight for their lives? Baby to Methusalem, threaten them and it will show... Have you seen how a baby enters this world? It's actually helping to get born actively ( if by natural pathway)... If you abolish life, then who's there to enjoy the pristine waters?

I know that life is filled with suffering to varying degrees; it is never without - not without pleasure either though. It's a dirty mix and we all try to get some of the good parts right?

Did you ever read "Faust" (the original)?
One of the famous parts that I appreciate is this self-intro of
"Mephisto:
I am the spirit that negates.
And rightly so, for all that comes to be
Deserves to perish wretchedly;
‘Twere better nothing would begin.
Thus everything that your terms, sin,
Destruction, evil represent—
That is my proper element."
(Goethe)

I like Mephisto, btw.

 

[chris_p]

Sober is a state of mind. You can get high without drugs. Just saying

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

it works for all kinds of thoughts, depression, anxiety, delusional, etc.

it is welcoming the bad thoughts by saying hello then learning to sit them down to wait while uploading better thoughts

Ok. I'm one with my bad thoughts

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/cute-devil-meditation-cute-cartoon-devil-meditation-yoga-vecktor-illustration-mascot-logo-sticker-227933235.jpg

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

Sober is a state of mind. You can get high without drugs. Just saying

That's also true. But it's much more difficult to create that mindset on demand compared to applying a chemical... But with the right circumstances it definitely also works, correct.

 

[Them Witches]

Ok. I'm one with my bad thoughts

https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/cute-devil-meditation-cute-cartoon-devil-meditation-yoga-vecktor-illustration-mascot-logo-sticker-227933235.jpg

great way to look at things

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

great way to look at things

Now I'm not entirely sure this is really a compliment ...

 

[LucidSDreamr]

If you abolish life, then who's there to enjoy the pristine waters?

l

Who would there be to miss it? Nobody. So it’s not even an issue.

Benetars asymmetry theorem lays out the concept of the above sentiment of mine in a pretty simple and quantitative way. It basically lays out the pros and cons of existence vs non existence and shows there is more of a net negative to existence and non existence is neutral.

Benatar's asymmetry argument - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

We always get then asked “why don’t you kill yourself?” The evolutionary selected for instinct to survive and chase dopamine no matter how hard survival is, is very strong - otherwise nothing would be here. Also it would hurt my wife that depends on me very much and she simply doesn’t deserve that. There’s a very good chance that I die by suicide eventually at some point, but it will be more for than just because life is pointless - I won’t decay slowly. It will be something instant accident or not.

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

Who would there be to miss it? Nobody. So it’s not even an issue.

Other than God who would get bored.
If you were God and had to choose between creating life or not doing so, maybe for a few billion years you wouldn't. But then...

Benetars asymmetry theorem lays out the concept of the above sentiment of mine in a pretty simple and quantitative way. It basically lays out the pros and cons of existence vs non existence and shows there is more of a net negative to existence and non existence is neutral.

Benatar's asymmetry argument - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I'd go with the critics that not created pleasure IS bad... And also it is a quite materialistic view. What if even pain had a meaning? Like, learning from it? Personal development rarely takes place without significantly painful processes... (And I vouch for that one )
The meaning of experiences can very often only be seen from a certain distance (in time). Like a student will hardly learn without a certain effort. If it was all only about pleasure or pain, aka what we like and what we don't, things like school or training camps, fitness clubs - they all should be forbidden. Innit? No pain no gain. Feels very true very often.
So what if life had a purpose? If there was a lesson to be learnt? And pleasure and pain were the teachers?
This might sound a bit sarcastic to a chronic pain patient... I hope you don't mind. But pain is a very precious teacher in so many things. (Picture a child learning to walk here). They cry so much... And they learn so fast... And once they master another step, their joy shines bright from deep inside...

We always get then asked “why don’t you kill yourself?” The evolutionary selected for instinct to survive and chase dopamine no matter how hard survival is, is very strong - otherwise nothing would be here. Also it would hurt my wife that depends on me very much and she simply doesn’t deserve that. There’s a very good chance that I die by suicide eventually at some point, but it will be more for than just because life is pointless - I won’t decay slowly. It will be something instant accident or not.

I see. Does your wife share your views?
The way to end this life is a big challenge for me as well... But mine is more about keeping my dignity. Dementia is my worst nightmare for the future... I've seen too much of it and it would be the one big only acceptable reason for suicide for me.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Other than God who would get bored.
If you were God and had to choose between creating life or not doing so, maybe for a few billion years you wouldn't. But then...

I'd go with the critics that not created pleasure IS bad... And also it is a quite materialistic view. What if even pain had a meaning? Like, learning from it? Personal development rarely takes place without significantly painful processes... (And I vouch for that one )
The meaning of experiences can very often only be seen from a certain distance (in time). Like a student will hardly learn without a certain effort. If it was all only about pleasure or pain, aka what we like and what we don't, things like school or training camps, fitness clubs - they all should be forbidden. Innit? No pain no gain. Feels very true very often.
So what if life had a purpose? If there was a lesson to be learnt? And pleasure and pain were the teachers?
This might sound a bit sarcastic to a chronic pain patient... I hope you don't mind. But pain is a very precious teacher in so many things. (Picture a child learning to walk here). They cry so much... And they learn so fast... And once they master another step, their joy shines bright from deep inside...

I see. Does your wife share your views?
The way to end this life is a big challenge for me as well... But mine is more about keeping my dignity. Dementia is my worst nightmare for the future... I've seen too much of it and it would be the one big only acceptable reason for suicide for me.

I don’t believe in god and if there is one I don’t believe that life was created I believe it’s just a chemical chain reaction that got more and more complicated as it progressed and god didn’t care….like algae growing in my garbage can.


If this life was purposefully created by a god, honestly he’s a sadistic piece of shit. There are kids getting raped blown up, limbs chopped and starving to death everywhere. Life was even more brutal in ancient times. The suffering is untold and god is sick if this is his idea of enterainment.

I’ve thought of this too, as if the suffering and pleasure is just god doing some sort of excercise the way you go to the gym and it suck, but you feel better after and get a payoff.

But this thinking of pleasure and pain is all rooted in the prison human and animal life forms are trapped in - the dopamine reward system. A god wouldn’t be bound to that or have to think in those ways. To create this just seems sick to me if that’s the case, but I firmly beleieve it’s all the way it is because evolutionary and chemical theory for HAVING to be this way makes too much sense.


My wife completely understands my outlook on life. She seems to have a much stronger will to live despite suffering but she has never experienced true physical or psychological suffering so that can change person. Weve discussed how much of a vegetable or how sick one of us would have to be to allow the hospital to “pull the plug” on eachother and her threshold for illness or debilitation seems much higher than mine, but she hasn’t had a small taste of pain either so maybe that would change her…yet I have talked to plenty of people suffering immensely that persevere past a point I currently don’t think I would.

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

I don’t believe in god and if there is one I don’t believe that life was created I believe it’s just a chemical chain reaction that got more and more complicated as it progressed and god didn’t care….like algae growing in my garbage can

I certainly don't believe in a human like person-god either. But there might be something like a creative principle/energy or possibly even mind/intelligence out there.
Btw. Instead of a garbage can you don't care about you could also phrase it otherwise: "I've given this wonderful planet to you my beloved children, for you to thrive and find happiness." - The fact that we're on our own, responsible for everything happening, good and bad, remains the same. But the whole meaning is reversed by changing the implicit motivation of the assumed creator... (Add a little love to your projections )

If this life was purposefully created by a god, honestly he’s a sadistic piece of shit. There are kids getting raped blown up, limbs chopped and starving to death everywhere. Life was even more brutal in ancient times. The suffering is untold and god is sick if this is his idea of enterainment.

And yet it's not God doing that, remember?

I’ve thought of this too, as if the suffering and pleasure is just god doing some sort of excercise the way you go to the gym and it suck, but you feel better after and get a payoff.

If we remove God totally from the equation - this is a principle of human existence.

But this thinking of pleasure and pain is all rooted in the prison human and animal life forms are trapped in - the dopamine reward system. A god wouldn’t be bound to that or have to think in those ways. To create this just seems sick to me if that’s the case, but I firmly beleieve it’s all the way it is because evolutionary and chemical theory for HAVING to be this way makes too much sense.

In the end it doesn't matter whether it's evolution or God's creation - it's the way we are built and it makes us very successful in so many ways. With side effects ofc...

My wife completely understands my outlook on life. She seems to have a much stronger will to live despite suffering but she has never experienced true physical or psychological suffering so that can change person. Weve discussed how much of a vegetable or how sick one of us would have to be to allow the hospital to “pull the plug” on eachother and her threshold for illness or debilitation seems much higher than mine, but she hasn’t had a small taste of pain either so maybe that would change her…yet I have talked to plenty of people suffering immensely that persevere past a point I currently don’t think I would.

That's what I meant with the wish of the creature. It's unfathomable for me as well what kinds of state of existence are still considered worth fighting for, for actually an awful lot of people...

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I certainly don't believe in a human like person-god either. But there might be something like a creative principle/energy or possibly even mind/intelligence out there.
Btw. Instead of a garbage can you don't care about you could also phrase it otherwise: "I've given this wonderful planet to you my beloved children, for you to thrive and find happiness." - The fact that we're on our own, responsible for everything happening, good and bad, remains the same. But the whole meaning is reversed by changing the implicit motivation of the assumed creator... (Add a little love to your projections )


And yet it's not God doing that, remember?

If we remove God totally from the equation - this is a principle of human existence.

In the end it doesn't matter whether it's evolution or God's creation - it's the way we are built and it makes us very successful in so many ways. With side effects ofc...

That's what I meant with the wish of the creature. It's unfathomable for me as well what kinds of state of existence are still considered worth fighting for, for actually an awful lot of people...

Some of my views may be influenced by my addiction preferences too or visa versa

Love drugs that knock you out, anesthetics, benzos, opioids

Death or non existence seem like the ultimate forms of that “high”

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

Some of my views may be influenced by my addiction preferences too or visa versa

Love drugs that knock you out, anesthetics, benzos, opioids

Death or non existence seem like the ultimate forms of that “high”

I get where you're coming from - and I certainly share those preferences.
When I first heard of heroin (news about the annual death toll) I was directly intrigued. Must have been early primary school or even younger. My mom hated it and I thought I'd certainly try.. First childish protest statement that I didn't want to live around eight, much later I told her I wasn't asked whether I wanted to be born - efilism right? But I'm really sorry for that now. I put her through a lot of pain..
Since my parents left church when I was 2 years old I grew up as a materialist, really looking down on these fools believing whatever they were told. But it was not satisfying either. Life seemed deeply pointless like that. My therapy record starts around 7/8 yo.. and it only changed a bit when I started diving into all kinds of foreign religions, philosophies, New Age stuff... (Thanks to mom for that). Wisdom is something I'm still interested in more than pure facts. I could put my mind into it and keep myself entertained. And some of these ideas grew on me. I tested them with the reality at hand and those that still made sense I kept in mind...
... Ok, guess I'm done ranting