swiftly!
How to leave an addict
- Thread starter Fightingback123
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HatingThisLife
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Early in this thread you mention child support so I'm guessing you have kids no one has mentioned that
My mom stayed with my addict father, I begged her to leave even as a kid. It screwed me up pretty good and largely contributed to me becomming an addict. I saw my dad with nice cars, nice home, nice vacations and so never believed being an addict leads to the utter destruction of your life. The truth was he only kept it together bc of my mom handling all the bills and stuff. Sounds like its the same for your boyfriend. If you werent keeping everything together he would probably be homeless! You are most definitely enabling him to continue this lifestyle. You said he is an IV user, doesnt he have track marks then? How can he deny that?
Im a heroin addict fighting like hell to get clean. It's not easy and it takes a lot to want to do it. Very few of us arent selfish af. He isnt just iving heroin but also using methadone regularly so it sounds like maintenance hasnt helped in the past.
If being laid up in the hospital with endocarditis wasnt enough to scare him straight and try to get help, nothing you say will get him to that point except possibly leaving. Or better yet, throw him TF out!!! My cousin died from endocarditis a little over a year ago. Its extremely dangerous and once you have had it once you are highly susceptible to having it again.
You said you wonder how he goes to work drives etc. Its all dose dependent. He's probably only doing enough to take the edge off. Heroin users get very sick without it, Im sure the methadone helps him stay from extreme withdrawal symptons but with heroin he will likely feel physically shitty. If you just do a little bit you can function just fine, to a user I venture to say better than fine. Doing just a little bit makes him feel normal. But there's a fine line and depending on the purity of stuff you get esp if its cut with fentanyl, you can easily end up in dangerous territory, esp with IVing.
If he was at least bullshitting you that he wants to get clean I'd say there's a chance. But he's not even admitting to using so he is most likely light years from trying to get help.
My mom stayed with my addict father, I begged her to leave even as a kid. It screwed me up pretty good and largely contributed to me becomming an addict. I saw my dad with nice cars, nice home, nice vacations and so never believed being an addict leads to the utter destruction of your life. The truth was he only kept it together bc of my mom handling all the bills and stuff. Sounds like its the same for your boyfriend. If you werent keeping everything together he would probably be homeless! You are most definitely enabling him to continue this lifestyle. You said he is an IV user, doesnt he have track marks then? How can he deny that?
Im a heroin addict fighting like hell to get clean. It's not easy and it takes a lot to want to do it. Very few of us arent selfish af. He isnt just iving heroin but also using methadone regularly so it sounds like maintenance hasnt helped in the past.
If being laid up in the hospital with endocarditis wasnt enough to scare him straight and try to get help, nothing you say will get him to that point except possibly leaving. Or better yet, throw him TF out!!! My cousin died from endocarditis a little over a year ago. Its extremely dangerous and once you have had it once you are highly susceptible to having it again.
You said you wonder how he goes to work drives etc. Its all dose dependent. He's probably only doing enough to take the edge off. Heroin users get very sick without it, Im sure the methadone helps him stay from extreme withdrawal symptons but with heroin he will likely feel physically shitty. If you just do a little bit you can function just fine, to a user I venture to say better than fine. Doing just a little bit makes him feel normal. But there's a fine line and depending on the purity of stuff you get esp if its cut with fentanyl, you can easily end up in dangerous territory, esp with IVing.
If he was at least bullshitting you that he wants to get clean I'd say there's a chance. But he's not even admitting to using so he is most likely light years from trying to get help.
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jimdron
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Relevant thread for me. Got into using drugs much more for the last few months (cocaine, alcohol and weed mostly) and distanced myself from the relationship. I wonder all the time how much more my partner is going to suffer it and how I am going to find my way back home in time. This is not urgent, just slow and moderate speed trend is obvious.
MyrandaK
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I don’t have answers for you, but what I do know about chemical dependency, substance use disorders, addictions - whatever - is that attempting to manipulate or coerce someone into quitting will generally have a backfiring affect. If successful of whatever means of overpowering their free will, will be temporary and may produce more negative outcomes than the original situation you are attempting to mitigate. No ones addiction will improve because their life fell apart. Trying to recover without a life to do it in proves more futile. And you probably don’t want to hear this, but spying (unless you posses one of the, I think, very few titles that would give you a right to do so) puts you on a level playing field. He lied, you spied, you’re both wrong. Not he’s more wrong than you. He did you wrong and you did him wrong. You clearly love him, he clearly loves you and the lying is fueled by shame. Attempting to do anything that will magnify that shame will be counted productive. No one wants to bow down to a drug. Try an honest and loving approach. Please
Fightingback123
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Hi everyone thanks for everyone's reply. I honestly feel terrible about the spying...but I guess it was a seeing is believing thing for me...not that this makes it right and two wrongs of course don't make a right. I don't plan to confront him about that as it would not be beneficial to anyone right now. I've tried to talk to him several more times he admitted some which wasn't my goal really my goal was to have him get help really for himself. I know I know... he said he talked to his counselor at the clinic he said they will only up it 5mg a time I think. I guess he did do that. I don't see its helped at all thus far. I just want to thank everyone so much who has replied and tried to offer insight and assistance. Its a feeling of being trapped like there is no way out. I feel like he's almost saying like I have to accept this u know or something. I'm having a really hard time imagining my life without this person. Its very difficult to know that leaving may not be this huge like wake up call. I think at a point at first I maybe thought that. I think his self worth right now is very low. He told me he was going to quit after I talked to him again it sounded different this time but then he used that day. I want him to open up to me I feel like if I know more about what he is struggling with I can help. Sounds ridiculous I guess when I know its up to the addict themselves. I just want a good life for him and for me. Whats ironic is he seems way more content then myself with how things are going and I often wonder what it would be if the tables were turned. I knew before that its up to him to make the choice for himself but I thought I could just sway him more I guess to do so but I see now that no matter what I say that comes out of my mouth it literally doesn't matter.
JessFR
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It's probably hard for him too.
I've been on the other side of this, at least in some respect. I knew my loved ones wanted to help me and to get better and off heroin. And I didn't want to hurt them. I just couldn't figure out a way to let them help me. It wouldn't surprise me if he feels trapped too. I often did.
I have no wish to excuse his behavior, and I know my own behavior in addiction was often inexcusable. But it's not easy having loved ones while supporting an addiction you can't seem to escape from.
When you love them, and may even want to give them what they want, but don't know how to want it for yourself.
I've often been asked if I want to quit by many people including friends and family and the best I've been able to give them is that, I want to want to quit.
If he's getting on a maintenance program that might help a lot. I think for some people, they're just not ready to get clean until they're ready. Which.. They might never be.
I don't think I'm ready to be clean, the best I've been able to do is get my life somewhat under control on a methadone program.
Good luck, I wish you the best. If you ever need to talk about this even if it's just to vent, far as I'm concerned you're welcome to do so here.
I've been on the other side of this, at least in some respect. I knew my loved ones wanted to help me and to get better and off heroin. And I didn't want to hurt them. I just couldn't figure out a way to let them help me. It wouldn't surprise me if he feels trapped too. I often did.
I have no wish to excuse his behavior, and I know my own behavior in addiction was often inexcusable. But it's not easy having loved ones while supporting an addiction you can't seem to escape from.
When you love them, and may even want to give them what they want, but don't know how to want it for yourself.
I've often been asked if I want to quit by many people including friends and family and the best I've been able to give them is that, I want to want to quit.
If he's getting on a maintenance program that might help a lot. I think for some people, they're just not ready to get clean until they're ready. Which.. They might never be.
I don't think I'm ready to be clean, the best I've been able to do is get my life somewhat under control on a methadone program.
Good luck, I wish you the best. If you ever need to talk about this even if it's just to vent, far as I'm concerned you're welcome to do so here.
Fightingback123
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Thanks for being so kind and welcoming. I've told him a couple things that will help me trust him is showing me his bank account or unlocking his phone he guards with his life or taking the bathroom door off...hehe last one kind of extreme bit im at my end. He won't do any of them says I'm crazy. I told him to come up with a couple ideas of his own but he doesn't have any. He says he will come home more then disappears still for a day and a half. The worst part is now that the jig is up and I know the secret I can see where I'm being manipulated and things like that and its a very uncomfortable feeling. I read somewhere else that people who have to live in an environment like this where there are no rules an boundaries and its all like hush hush end up with the lowest mental health. It's tough to because honestly my personality type is not to be so complacent and like walked on I'm more of an im out I don't need this type of person but somewhere maybe dealing with this I've found myself somehow being the opposite type of person even tho that's not my true self. I know he will do what he wants to do and all in his own time. Its seems like he's not even listening when i talk anymore and I don't really blame him..I'm sick of hearing myself try to talk to him about it at this point. I've heard it's not good to so either be over bearing. I'm trying to control him and his situation and its no Bueno.
December Flower
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I'm afraid it's a fight you cannot win, as long as he doesn't want to stop.
I can only urge you to get out of this situation, and maybe you will help him along the way. I know you wanna stay, but this person you love is being consumed by the heroin, not the other way around.
You're right, maybe leaving him will not make him stop taking heroin, but neither will staying with him. Staying with him also has the added risk that you will see everything he does to himself nonstop.
Your situation sucks, there's no doubt about it, but you really gotta pick what kind of pain you want: the one that may last you many more years until one day you might find him swollen & blue in the bathroom, or the one where you rip the bandaid off, and it hurts for a little.
No one is helped by fighting, or spying on him etc., it will just strain your relationship, and drive him harder towards the thing you don't want him to do. It fucking sucks, lets put the cards down here, any way you choose it's a mess, but you can at least save yourself, you have that option. And maaaay be you will save him in the process, if he loves you enough, I don't know. You will definitely not help him by staying, sadly.
Don't torture yourself, you seem like a sweet soul, and you deserve much better than playing the second fiddle to a drug.
JessFR
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When you love someone, at least when I do, you want to give them everything you can, even when it hurts you.
I wouldn't have thought I would tolerate the abuse I received from one of my ex's, but I did, cause I loved him.
Leaving is hard, even when you know you should.
Speaking again though from the addict side. If he's not ready to stop yet, he's not ready to stop yet. You can do things that might help him reach the point where he's finally ready, but they won't be easy for either of you. Sadly at this point leaving may be the best thing you can do. Or at least the least worst thing.
In the end it might not help, he may never be ready to stop his drug. But at the end of the day, if he wants to keep using, he will find a way.
You can't trust a heroin addict. When I was deep into it, I became an unbelievably good liar and manipulator.
He will manipulate you, in whatever way he thinks he has to to keep his drug.
He may be hurting too, it may be hurting him far more than he let's on how much he knows he's hurting you.
I hated what I did to hurt my loved ones in my addiction. But until I'd gotten to the point where I was ready to stop heroin and at least try life on methadone instead, I just kept doing it. No matter how much it hurt, I'd do whatever I had to to get my drug. I did things I'd once never thought myself capable of.
And it was all the more devastating and horrible by the fact that when I'm not in active heroin addiction, I'm generally a very honest person. But when I was in it, Id tell any lie, do pretty much any thing to keep using. Even if it hurt so much to see how I was hurting others. Even if I wanted so badly to let them help me. I just couldn't.
Eventually I ended up homeless, begging every day for money on the street with my equally addicted addict boyfriend. It was only when things had gotten so bad that I was prostituting myself only for my partner to still fuck shit up from his benzo use that he wouldn't acknowledge, that I finally reached the point that I'd had enough.
Not enough of heroin, I'm still a heroin addict, I still love it. It's only a desire never to end up that low that keeps me at all stable on a methadone program. And even in that I've had relapses.
Different people will tolerate different amounts of suffering for their drug, and some will go to different lengths. But you should assume that he's capable of just about anything.
Don't let him tell you you're crazy, you've seen what you've seen. Don't let him manipulate you. And for both of your sakes don't let him make a victim out of you.
In many ways I wish my loved ones had just entirely cut me off from the start. No more listening to my lies, no more giving me even an an inch to deceive them. No more trusting a single word I said or giving me a single dollar more.
Things would have deteriorated faster, but I think I probably would have wound up at the same place, just sooner, and with less guilt to live with about what I put them through and did to them.
Your boyfriend may be different, he may not be exactly like me. And I can't promise you anything about what will happen if you take one decision over another. All I can tell you is what it was like for me going through this as the one with the severe heroin habit.
HatingThisLife
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I respectfully disagree. Most people I know ONLY changed their lives and got into recovery because of the degree to which their lives fell apart. Furthermore, its not your responsibility to give him a good situation to recover in. He will need to rebuild whatever he loses, that's on him. I absolutely disagree that he isnt more wrong also. You would've never spied on him if he hadnt created this situation, effectively living a double life. I dont even see it as 2 wrongs, you had to do what you had to do so he couldnt keep gaslighting you. You clearly love him but I dont see that he clearly loves you. I see that he loves heroin. I see that he loves having the stability that a life with you provides, he loves that you are keeping everything together bc surely without you he would screwed. I dont see where he actually shows any love or concern for you.
If my man disappeared for a day and a half and didnt have a DAMN good reason that would be the end for me. That would happen exactly one time. The next time he would come home to his shit packed and on the porch and all the locks changed. That is completely unacceptable if I am understanding correctly, he disappears and you have no clue where he is, who he is with, or what he is doing? FOH!!!!
He is refusing to do anything you ask, gas lighting you and lying straight to your face. Its time for you to either toughen up and kick him to the curb - it sucks you've invested years with him but he clearly is not going to change at all. Either that or accept this is what your life is, give up on getting the truth and just keep living as second best. You will be miserable until he overdoses or you die.
Leaving will hurt like hell but in time it will be the best decision you ever made. You cant control him you can only control you.
JessFR
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While I find myself mostly on your side on this, I disagree that he might not change.
Heroin addiction does things to you. It turns you into someone you don't even recognize.
Sometimes, when the addiction gets under control, the true personality comes out again.
It depends. Some heroin addicts are just assholes. But many are good people being controlled by a drug. It doesn't excuse a thing, I have to live with all the shitty things I did the rest of my life. And I won't let anyone tell me that it's the drugs fault.
But neither do I think I'm the same person on drugs as off them. Off them, I'd like to think I'm generally a sweet, honest person who cares deeply for other people.
On them, I'm a lying manipulative criminal who brings about destruction to myself and everyone around me.
Regardless of how much he loves her vs heroin, I think the question is semantics. How much he loves each isn't the point.
The point is he will put heroin ahead of you. If it's his drug, or you, he will pick his drug, even if he doesn't wanna believe it, at the end of the day, if he's remotely like me and most junkies I've known, you will never be his first priority so long as heroin is in his life.
HatingThisLife
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Completely agree with every word you said. Not sure what you mean when you say you disagree he might not change. Maybe what I said didnt come across they way I meant but to clarify - I do believe he can change but he has to want it. Also, he might not change at all. Surely its not his natural nature to lie and gaslight, most sober people arent like that except narcissists. As long as he is comfortable and facing few negative consequences, I doubt he will change tho. Heroin is VERYYYYY powerful and will consume you. I am struggling to get off it myself, Ive done it before and know how hard it is. Even when you want to and have a million great reasons to stop, its incredibly difficult. Between the initial sickness, cravings and PAWs, getting clean before was one of the hardest things Ive done in my life
JessFR
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Yep, we probably aren't in disagreement, just different wording.
I agree, I knew for a long time how much heroin was likely to destroy everything I had, but I kept on going. I doubt I'd ever have stopped so long as people kept enabling me.
Eventually they stopped, my family wouldn't give me any more money, my relationship fell apart and I got together with a fellow heroin addict instead.
I had to suffer tremendously before I finally decided I wanted to try and stop continuing indefinite heroin use.
I wish there had been another way. I wish I could have just let them help me, stop before I wound up on the street, letting sick fucks do what ever they wanted just so I wouldn't have to be sick that night and start over sick in the morning.
I wish so badly I could take it all back.
But it was never gonna happen. I was never gonna let my family help me. I don't think I was ever gonna stop till things got that bad.
Different people will be ready to stop at different points, some might never be ready.
I think some people will die before they're ready.
I'm not sure what @MyrandaK is expecting. But I had plenty of people who loved me and wanted to help me.
And I made victims of them for it. I used their desire to help against them.
I am to blame for that, but it's why I wish they had just told me they weren't gonna enable me.
I was gonna keep using them until they stopped letting me. And eventually they did.
And yes, life got a LOT worse after. But what was the alternative? Just keep letting me abuse them? I gave them no alternative.
And eventually once things got bad enough I was finally ready to let them help me.
Maybe some people can be helped before they get that bad, I couldn't. And I think many addicts are like that.
Addicts WILL target your vulnerabilities. They will make you into their victims even when they sincerely love you.
They will hate and loath themselves for it, but they'll do it, again and again.
HatingThisLife
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OMG that whole part. You write it out so perfectly and eloquently. 100% spot on, every word of it. We hurt the ones that love us the most and we keep doing it until THEY STOP ALLOWING IT. Being with a heroin addict leaves you 2 choices, accept that as your fate and hope one day they want help or leave. There is no other way. So sad.
Fightingback123
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Im just curious but how much money do u guys think he is spending on his little several time a day habit?
HatingThisLife
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Depends on the area you live i.e. how it is sold, dealers he is using and whether or not he is buying bulk. In more urban areas you can get $10 bags - 10 10 bags is called a bundle and if you have a regular dealer you can get a break and they wont charge full price. In my area, more rural you cant get less than a $20.
Id say min 50 to 100 a day
JessFR
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Very hard to say, depends on how bad his habit is, depends on how much his drugs cost. How much money he can source.
As the above poster indicates 50-100 a day wouldn't be that unusual.
In my experience, with my heroin habit anyway. Sooner or later you end up spending whatever it is you can afford on an ongoing basis.
It took a while to get to that point, but that's always where it eventually wound up.
If he keeps going it's likely that sooner for later he will be spending roughly however much money he has coming in.
In my experience that's where heroin addiction eventually winds up, it can take a little while to get there, but eventually it consumes everything in your life until there's nothing else left. Everything you get and every moment of your life is dedicated to your habit.
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HatingThisLife
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So the problem with heroin is it has a short half life so you have to re-dose anywhere between every 6 to 12 hours or you start feeling crappy. I dont use needles I smoke it but my understanding is needle users need to re-dose sooner and feel sicker. Im not sure how much the methadone helps your man to not get sick. Methadone has a very long half life. With extended daily heroin use in addition to daily methadone use I would imagine he still starts to feel crappy without heroin. Othwrs here have more experience with that and can maybe give you some guidance.
You mentioned you've been seeing thw signs he is using for quite some time. It may have started out with a 20 bag here and there on the weekend and then on the weekend and 1 or 2 days a week and then more and more and more until it becomes daily and you are getting sick and at that point its already too late and the only way to stop is to go thru the sickness which lasts several days and is absolutely horrible. I did pain pills for years, smoking 30mg percocet, and even doing them daily for years the withdrawal was no where near as unbearable as from heroin. And truthfully from reading what some people here that use needles go thru, my withdrawals from smoking it are comparably mild and I still want to die from it.
You said he still pays rent, does he pay any other bills? If you want to know what he is spending just think about how much his pay checks are and how much his bills are and what else is he buying? The vast majority of his money probably goes to dope.
Fightingback123
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He made like 65,000 dollars last year and complained about being broke alot. I see him spend no money on material things clothes, electronics nothing. So ya I guess that answers my question.
JessFR
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I actually looked at one of my old bank statements last night. And yeah, basically I was spending 95% of everything that came in on drugs, probably more.
Honestly if he's still paying for rent that's still at least something that isn't going to drugs.
The problem is, soon as he makes any less than he makes now, like if he gets fired, entirely plausible if not probable if he's a heroin addict, it's likely to all come crashing down in a hurry.
That's the thing about "functional" heroin addicts, they're usually only functional until something goes wrong.
That's been my experience anyway.
Doing the math, taking out some money for rent, our estimate of him paying a hundred a day on drugs, give or take, is probably pretty close.
Also, I hate to say this, but there's really no denying it. If, or more likely when everything comes crashing down. Everyone around him is likely to become his victim (assuming they aren't already).
Constant problems of any and every plausible thing you might imagine where the answer is always money. I can't overstate how manipulative junkies can be. I was one, my BF was one, I saw how he did it, I know how I did it. You end up so good at it you find ways to get people to give you money where they think they're the one offering it to you rather than you asking it from them.
It wasn't unusual for us to call someone, some non drug user loved one, and spend about an hour or so on the phone with them working them up to giving us money. And we nearly always did get the money because we had worked out exactly what to say and exactly who to call and exactly at what point people would and wouldn't still give us money.
Id even sometimes pay people back the money the loaned me, but only exactly enough that I could spare to keep them giving me more in future. It was still a net loss for them. It was just another manipulation.
And I felt terrible about it, I still feel terrible about it. Sometimes I look back on things I did and can barely believe I could have really done them.
But I did, and if I were using again I wouldn't put it past me to do them again no matter how much I'd like to believe I wouldn't.
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