How to - Deal with LE.

[itsWill]

Alarm bells are ringing. Police don't call to arrange a specific day for you to come in to pick up a wallet.

If the wallet is not picked up within a certain period of time, it and the contents will be destroyed should it not be claimed, unless of course they want to try and lay charges on that basis... and that'd be pushing shit uphill.

Its all extemely odd?
Wouldnt they come to my friend if they wanted to talk to them? Not call and arrange a time to pick up the wallet??
What do you think the most likey outcome is? Since they have had the wallet for about 5 months?

 

[Green Laser]

Commonwealth legislation provides for certain convictions (even if a 'conviction' is not recorded... a very grey area but anyway...) to become 'spent' after a specific length of time.

Essentially this means that once the period of rehabilitation has passed, you are under no legal obligation to reveal your conviction to anyone. The rehabilitive period is 10 years for convictions as an adult, and 5 years for a juvenile. As you were sentenced to a punishment less than 30 months prison, your offence is capable of being spent.

As you were a juvenile at the time, your conviction will be spent 5 years from the date of conviction. At this point (assuming you commit no further offences between now and then) this charge will no longer appear on a copy of your criminal history unless you have given permission for all charges/convictions to be listed. There are exemptions from the spent conviction act though, but these are relatively rare... in a nutshell (not exhaustive) if you apply for a job in law enforcement at any level you spent convictions must still be disclosed. Teachers for example, must also disclose relevant convictions (these include offences against minors) for obvious reasons. By and large though, once a conviction is spent it has little to no impact on your life from that point.

For the purposes of this post note that i include 'convictions not recorded' as convictions, as often the wording of questions of this nature is a more ambiguous 'have you ever been found guilty of an offence' rather than 'have you been convicted, regardless of whether or not a conviction has been recorded'.



As for requesting a legal practitioner to be present during questioning, the onus is on you to contact a lawyer/solicitor/barrister of your choosing or through Legal Aid should you wish. Police are under no legal obligation to assist you in finding representation. Questioning will be halted for a reasonable length of time to enable you to find suitable representation.

so I can't get a decent job until I'm 22? That's not so bad I guess, will hopefully be in uni until then atleast. What about travel?

Thanks for the advice as well, I've got horribly conflicting ideas ranging from "it will not affect you in anyway" to "you're fucked for life" the latter of which wasn't particularly comforting, at 17 year I'm not quite jaded enough to not have big dreams (although they're certainly not as big as they used to be).

 

[mushi mushi 88]

OK I got a question for you fortehlulz;

Now I'm at UNI and their are 35 000 students that go to my uni, or so I have been told, and I was just wondering do you think there would be undercover police their to try and see if there are criminals operating and what not such as drug dealers, stolen goods sellers, thieves and vandalists...?

I was just curious because there are a few sketchy looking characters that go to my uni and I have noticed some people that kinda look sus but in a undercover sus kind of way if you know what I mean..

 

[fishman00]

Green Laser, it doesn't necessarily exclude you from a 'good' job until you are 22. A fair percentage of employers won't even conduct a police check or ask you to provide a copy, it's generally (although not always) only jobs that have legislative requirements to be issued with a licence/accreditation (security guard, solicitor, mortgage broker etc) that require the police check.

Some employers will simply ask if you have ever been charged with an offence, it is your call whether you wish to disclose this although in a strict legal sense you are obligated to.

In any case even if you do disclose the offence most employers will exercise a level of discretion, having said that it wasn't a minor charge but it wasn't armed robbery either! Don't let your history deter you from applying for any particular job.

 

[fortehlulz]

I know this has been covered in the thread, but I'm still a little bit unclear. I got done for trafficking and theft when I was 16 (day before my 17th birthday actually), no conviction recorded, and a 9 month good behavior bond. How can/will this affect me in the future?

There was a changeover of Victorian legislation in 2005, so depending on when this occurred, you may have been regarded as an adult or a juvenile. I'm assuming that when you say you got done, you're talking about the arrest. How old were you when it went to court, and which court did it land in? If it was Children's, your record is accessible for 5 years to the private sector. Magistrates or County, 10 years. Accessible for life to LE.

As for how a record affects your life - theft, regardless of size, is a prick of a charge. It can be used to knock you out of any cash handling (hard pressed to get into Woolies if you declare it) or any integrity related jobs. Drug traffick will hurt you in terms of professional licensing and the military.

All that said, a record is not the end of your life. Beleive me when I say that.

And this has also been covered-ish, but when you're being questioned/arrested can you demand a lawyer a la American movies, or do you have to organise it yourself?

You may communicate or attempt to communicate with a legal practitioner. That is one of your rights in Victoria. This means calling your lawyer, or calling a legal aid lawyer, who will typically tell you to say 'no comment'. Very seldom does a lawyer actually come and attend the interview.

 

[fortehlulz]

I don't think you could get a fingerprint off a pill.

But you CAN get prints off a baggie.

 

[fortehlulz]

Commonwealth legislation provides for certain convictions (even if a 'conviction' is not recorded... a very grey area but anyway...) to become 'spent' after a specific length of time.

Commonwealth spent conviction legislation doesn't apply to state offences last time I checked. And Victoria has no spent conviction legislation, crim record release is governed by a Vicpol information management policy.

 

[fortehlulz]

OK I got a question for you fortehlulz;

Now I'm at UNI and their are 35 000 students that go to my uni, or so I have been told, and I was just wondering do you think there would be undercover police their to try and see if there are criminals operating and what not such as drug dealers, stolen goods sellers, thieves and vandalists...?

I was just curious because there are a few sketchy looking characters that go to my uni and I have noticed some people that kinda look sus but in a undercover sus kind of way if you know what I mean..

You bet there are U/Cs at Unis. Radicalism is typically born at uni, from piddling council specific demonstration through to international terrorism, and the government is well aware of that.

Spooks from ASIO, state police drug units... you name it, its quite probable they're there on a big uni campus.

 

[fortehlulz]

Green Laser, it doesn't necessarily exclude you from a 'good' job until you are 22. A fair percentage of employers won't even conduct a police check or ask you to provide a copy, it's generally (although not always) only jobs that have legislative requirements to be issued with a licence/accreditation (security guard, solicitor, mortgage broker etc) that require the police check.

Some employers will simply ask if you have ever been charged with an offence, it is your call whether you wish to disclose this although in a strict legal sense you are obligated to.

I'd suggest being upfront about your record if asked. Lying about it and getting pinged down the track (very common) is grounds for dismissal.

In any case even if you do disclose the offence most employers will exercise a level of discretion, having said that it wasn't a minor charge but it wasn't armed robbery either! Don't let your history deter you from applying for any particular job.

Fishman is very right. The worst that can happen is you'll get knocked back.

 

[uk_pman]

Thanks for the advice as well, I've got horribly conflicting ideas ranging from "it will not affect you in anyway" to "you're fucked for life" the latter of which wasn't particularly comforting, at 17 year I'm not quite jaded enough to not have big dreams (although they're certainly not as big as they used to be).

I work for a big corporate, and we do the usual screening on new employee's & contractors - including drug tests and background checks.

If you lie about your background - you are definitely out. If you tell the truth, we'll consider what you got done for, how long ago, etc. I'd probably look at it better if someone even mentioned it in the interview in the "Tell me about a difficult situation and how you handled it" type question.

In terms of travel - on the US - forget the visa waiver process. You've got to get a visa before you leave Oz. If you don't disclose - and are found out (which I'd assume they have the ability to do these days) - you'll definitely be bounced back home, no questions.

A lot of places view failure to disclose as a sign of ongoing dishonesty, so my advice is be upfront when you need to be.

 

[mushi mushi 88]

You bet there are U/Cs at Unis. Radicalism is typically born at uni, from piddling council specific demonstration through to international terrorism, and the government is well aware of that.

Spooks from ASIO, state police drug units... you name it, its quite probable they're there on a big uni campus.

Hmmm that is very interesting so your saying there would be some at every large UNI or just some? Do the Universities know that they are working on campus or are they usually just enrolled in as a normal student? How many do you think they would have on a UNI that has about 35 000 students? I wouldn't mind meeting one I think there role their would be very interesting to find out.

 

[my innerself]

hey dude dont stress, when I joined the navy ages ago they didn't check shit. And even if the army ask for a police clearence the cops would give them one as taunting a sniffer dog is fuck all.

Oh yeah this thread is gonna get closed too. Totally the wrong place for this thread.

 

[mushi mushi 88]

hey dude dont stress, when I joined the navy ages ago they didn't check shit. And even if the army ask for a police clearence the cops would give them one as taunting a sniffer dog is fuck all.

Oh yeah this thread is gonna get closed too. Totally the wrong place for this thread.

I think you posted in the wrong thread man. Pretty sure there is a seperate thread about him taunting the dog and stuff now lol.

 

[fortehlulz]

Hmmm that is very interesting so your saying there would be some at every large UNI or just some? Do the Universities know that they are working on campus or are they usually just enrolled in as a normal student? How many do you think they would have on a UNI that has about 35 000 students? I wouldn't mind meeting one I think there role their would be very interesting to find out.

While I may know they're there, I don't have specific info on how many there'd be. Think about it like this - drug trafficking, threats to state politicians by the radicals - that's two units with U/C capacity who'd be interested in Uni campuses just at a state level.

When police insert members into organisations, its strictly on the down low. It'd be very, very unusual to tell the place which is being infiltrated that it was happening, as accountability for that knowledge is heavy, and considering how well backstopped the false identities used by police are, there's just no need.

 

[fortehlulz]

A lot of places view failure to disclose as a sign of ongoing dishonesty, so my advice is be upfront when you need to be.

Very true. You've fucked yourself from the get go if you fail to disclose and they find out on their own. Even if they don't, you run the risk daily of being recognised by old friends or enemies and having some talk behind the scenes quickly turn into an anonymous phone call. Its one thing if the question doesn't come up. Its another thing entirely if you lie about it.

 

[Green Laser]

There was a changeover of Victorian legislation in 2005, so depending on when this occurred, you may have been regarded as an adult or a juvenile. I'm assuming that when you say you got done, you're talking about the arrest. How old were you when it went to court, and which court did it land in? If it was Children's, your record is accessible for 5 years to the private sector. Magistrates or County, 10 years. Accessible for life to LE.

As for how a record affects your life - theft, regardless of size, is a prick of a charge. It can be used to knock you out of any cash handling (hard pressed to get into Woolies if you declare it) or any integrity related jobs. Drug traffick will hurt you in terms of professional licensing and the military.

All that said, a record is not the end of your life. Beleive me when I say that.



You may communicate or attempt to communicate with a legal practitioner. That is one of your rights in Victoria. This means calling your lawyer, or calling a legal aid lawyer, who will typically tell you to say 'no comment'. Very seldom does a lawyer actually come and attend the interview.

It was June last year, I was 16 when I was in court, is what I meant. I'm not sure I think it was the children's court. I don't remember too well, but there was only kids around and IIRC magistrates court turned into childrens court on tuesday or some shit.

 

[Slyfox]

What if a mate gets caught with a baggie of cannabis that ive touched? the police have my DNA but not my finger prints. Do they ever test baggies for DNA / prints? South australia

 

[fishman00]

Commonwealth spent conviction legislation doesn't apply to state offences last time I checked. And Victoria has no spent conviction legislation, crim record release is governed by a Vicpol information management policy.

Upon further research you are correct (as usual). I knew Victoria didn't have a legislated Spent Convictions Scheme (South Australia is similar from memory) but i was certain that the Commonwealth legislation covered the individual states, but i had a look at the wording and it covers the 'Commonwealth of Australia' and 'territories' (not states) so presumably it refers to Norfolk and Christmas Islands and so on.

I dug a bit deeper and found that Victorian police have absolute discretion when deciding what appears on a criminal history check (where the offence was prosecuted in Victoria) subject to 'guidelines'. Are you privy to exactly what these guidelines are? Would it be broadly similar to the Commonwealth and states SC schemes?

 

[fishman00]

What if a mate gets caught with a baggie of cannabis that ive touched? the police have my DNA but not my finger prints. Do they ever test baggies for DNA / prints? South australia

DNA testing facilities are terribly backlogged around the country due to the nature of testing, it's both expensive and time consuming.

Unless they believe the evidence relates to a more sinister crime, DNA testing usually will not occur, at least initially.

In any case i think it would be highly unlikely that a baggie would contain any usable/testable DNA unless you were careless and let a hair inside or licked the baggie for whatever reason! Simply handling it will not leave DNA evidence.

It seems odd that the SA police have sampled your DNA but not taken your fingerprints. I'm guessing legislation down there still provides for police to take a DNA sample without charge or warrant? Given the uproar that it caused i thought it might have been repealed by now but sounds like it hasn't.... As far as i'm aware it is the only state or territory in Australia that allows this practice.

In short it's highly unlikely that DNA testing would be conducted on a baggie, however fingerprinting is another matter. Fingerprints adhere very well to most plastics.

 

[fortehlulz]

Upon further research you are correct (as usual). I knew Victoria didn't have a legislated Spent Convictions Scheme (South Australia is similar from memory) but i was certain that the Commonwealth legislation covered the individual states, but i had a look at the wording and it covers the 'Commonwealth of Australia' and 'territories' (not states) so presumably it refers to Norfolk and Christmas Islands and so on.

I dug a bit deeper and found that Victorian police have absolute discretion when deciding what appears on a criminal history check (where the offence was prosecuted in Victoria) subject to 'guidelines'. Are you privy to exactly what these guidelines are? Would it be broadly similar to the Commonwealth and states SC schemes?

I beleive it's fairly in line with the federal stuff - 10 years for adult, 5 years for child, anything over three years aggregate imprisonment (custodial or suspended) gets released, etc etc. There are some weird rules about 'everything since X offence' being released.

Their discretion really came into play with sex related stuff when the declared purpose of the check was child related work - its cases like that where their little policies would fly out the window, however, now that sort of thing is the preserve of the DOJ's Working With Children Check, it really is only in exceptional circumstances [which they determine ad hoc].

EDIT - Vicpol record check info policy http://www.police.vic.gov.au/retrievemedia.asp?Media_ID=38447

On a related note, to say that the disclaimer and the whole process for getting a record check in Victoria recently became far more convoluted would be the understatement of the century. What used to be a single, small print A4 page which actually expected you to admit whether you'd been found guilty of state or territory offences in the past 10 years, offences in Vic in the last ten, or the copped imprisonment with an aggregate of over 3 years, is now a booklet wanting certified ID and for you to absolve the cops of all responsibilty if they fuck up the check you get (as has been known to happen).

The Victorian Legislature really should get off their arses and write some spent conviction legislation.