How to - Deal with LE.

[fortehlulz]

First, to the OP I just want to say, very good and informative thread!

Its all about teh lulz.

My questions are, do you know how much truth there is to these statements? Can one tell if their phone is tapped based on their IMEI number

Nope. All it is is an identity number. It can't tell you a thing other than that particular aparatus' unique identity.

and is it posssible for phones to record conversations going on around them when it is not in use?

Mobile phones as LDs is a touchy area. The FBI in the United States has admitted that it has the capacity to do use them for live monitoring. There are other uses for mobile phones, either off or on, to police beyond monitoring conversations. Whether or not this is in use in Australia at the moment is not something I'll be discussing - such a question is WAY beyond harm reduction.

 

[hoptis]

At festivals and events they may have tents, where they could strip search you if they had reasonable suspicion. But to be honest if you just get your baggy and shove it down your jocks, they will never search you to the point where they could find it. I attend many festivals and have personally never had any kind of search conducted on me. From their point of view, theres limited resources and devoting time and energy into doing a strip search on every person that the dog sniffs and sits next to is a total waste. A quick pocket and bag search to catch the idiots is all that happens.

Anyone have a counter example?

That's pretty much right, as you said they have very limited resources. I have read reports here of cops doing dodgy things, pulling the band on underpants out to peek down people's underpants or shaking out baggies that aren't properly secured in there.

Besides from pocket and bag I would think socks & hats are the second most common place a search would be conducted.

 

[fortehlulz]

Socks are the favourite place for full on smackies to keep their needles, so will always be checked.

As for other places, head or wrist bands, cuffs of pants, 'dacked' (as in, boxers pulled up above pants waist), wallets, pockets (obviously).

I can tell you now - if it progresses to a frisk search (eg they find nothing in a 'turn out your pockets' after the dog has indicated on you), the grabbing and pulling of your junk this way and that which you will enjoy will yield pretty much anything a strip search will.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ No rest for you, even on Christmas Day I see.

What would you suggest to stop a search progressing to that level?

 

[ayjay]

The NSW ombudsman report on sniffer dogs said that police found drugs on 26% of people indicated by dogs (about the same strike rate as stop & search on suspicion with no dogs) - so you could probably try something like "oh I was at a party last night and lots of people were smoking pot - the smell must still be on my clothes" if you were trying to avoid a frisking...

 

[fortehlulz]

^ No rest for you, even on Christmas Day I see.

Not being christian has its advantages - eg, a two public holidays for no reason relevant to me

What would you suggest to stop a search progressing to that level?

Once there is reasonable grounds, and in circumstances such as this, you are getting searched. No ifs, no buts.

I am aware that a prison officer (neither state nor year, other than <5 years, will not be disclosed) was indicated, by dog or machine, for cannabis a while back. He was promptly hussled out the other end and given a full, unbiased search, which yielded zip. His version of events was that he had been at the pub the night before and someone nearby was smoking cannabis.

Similarly, dogs indicated on an outbound UK passenger from Aus Customs a couple of years back - they searched him, found nothing. He admitted to having smoked a spliff the day before... big deal.

Here is one of those grey areas. I can teach you how to clean things so that dogs can't smell them, but to do so would be far beyond the scope of this board. This is a matter that mods should rule on before I comment further.

The NSW ombudsman report on sniffer dogs said that police found drugs on 26% of people indicated by dogs (about the same strike rate as stop & search on suspicion with no dogs) - so you could probably try something like "oh I was at a party last night and lots of people were smoking pot - the smell must still be on my clothes" if you were trying to avoid a frisking...

LOL. You could try that. And you will get roughly the same look that someone who has just piss tested positive will get for saying they'd inhaled second hand smoke.

False positives are non existent. I know how the dogs are trained - you need to have been in actual contact with that actual drug. The reinforcing training they go through to make sure they only indicate to specified scents is thorough to the point of cruel. While 26% of those who were indicated for possessing came up with actual possess, there's no data on how many of the remaining 74% had been in recent contact with drugs.

Bottom line - contact with drugs means ion particulate of drugs on you, which means positive response by dogs.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Here is one of those grey areas. I can teach you how to clean things so that dogs can't smell them, but to do so would be far beyond the scope of this board. This is a matter that mods should rule on before I comment further.

I didn't want to know that anyway, I was more interested in ways of talking to them to reduce suspicion and likelihood of a thorough search, but as you said:

Once there is reasonable grounds, and in circumstances such as this, you are getting searched. No ifs, no buts.

But I tend not to go out much, that is I don't go clubbing, go to bars but mainly for work with setting up for and mixing bands, so don't take any illicit substances with me. I'm into the festival thing, but when it comes to frying on whatever chemicals I got I prefer to do it with friends at a house where we can do what we want and not have to worry about security, police or exorbitant drink prices.

^ No rest for you, even on Christmas Day I see.
Not being christian has its advantages - eg, a two public holidays for no reason relevant to me

Ha, yes I'm in a similar boat to you... though I'm starting to celebrate the Jewish holidays a bit more.

 

[swilow]

You get to read it. If you delay them, the door is getting kicked in - the warrant allows this. I'll add that Police's version of knocking lasts about 3 seconds and goes 'Police! Search [rear guard is winding up with the battering ram] warrant! [ram hits door], police enter screaming POLICE!! DON'T MOVE!! so that the raidee doesn't assume its a rip off. You will find this to be a common situation - despite whay 'The Force' on TV will have you beleive, warrant service is usally at about 4am when you're in the deepest point of sleep.

Search doesn't NEED to be videoed - it depends who's doing it. Local CIU won't bother, specialist teams usually do. If you aren't home, a JP or other independant person may be called to make sure there's no naughtiness depending on what state you're in.

Cops don't like dogs. If you want to deal with your dog, tell them. I know off elderly women who were threatened with having their Kelpie shot when it was barking after a burglary by the responding members. Just be aware that they can, under the warrant, even search the dog.

Okay, thats cool mate, thankyou very much.

 

[fortehlulz]

No chance of having a dog run over you if you're at home %)

but when it comes to frying on whatever chemicals I got I prefer to do it with friends at a house where we can do what we want and not have to worry about security, police or exorbitant drink prices.

 

[Mr Blonde]

No chance of having a dog run over you if you're at home

Exactly; I'm a cat person. :D

 

[RedLeader]

fortehlulz,

After reading a bit in the thread about various poppers being sold in adult shops, I was curious if you could elaborate on their legal status. Are any of them still legal? I'm guessing it's a gray area, since a lot of the shops request the patrons to call them "rush" or even as various household cleaners, instead of using a chemical name. If being too specific in a shop is not allowed, are there any ways for average joes to know for sure what is in the bottles (the ones I have seen do not list ingredients)? If LE finds one of these "poppers" on one while out in public, what should one expect to have happen? Thanks.

 

[perthboy]

Ok here's a question:
If a person was to hypothetically try to take a tab or two into an event are they best off just putting it into a bag and in the dacks?
A package as small as that wouldnt have a high chance of being found esp in the underwear area which can't be searched yeah?
may or may not be within the discussion of this thread though

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ No that is not within the scope of this thread.

 

[mrephedrine69]

Epic thread. Kudos fortehlulz.

 

[fortehlulz]

fortehlulz,

After reading a bit in the thread about various poppers being sold in adult shops, I was curious if you could elaborate on their legal status. Are any of them still legal? I'm guessing it's a gray area, since a lot of the shops request the patrons to call them "rush" or even as various household cleaners, instead of using a chemical name. If being too specific in a shop is not allowed, are there any ways for average joes to know for sure what is in the bottles (the ones I have seen do not list ingredients)? If LE finds one of these "poppers" on one while out in public, what should one expect to have happen? Thanks.

We are going to go with an analogy here. In Victoria, CAV has declared what you and I know as 'ice pipes' or a 'cocaine kits' (combo of two or more of metal straw, mirror, razor, vial... may be slightly off here, CBF reading legislation at this moment) to be prohibited goods.

Rebrand your ice pipe as a glass pipe and sell it as such, and seperate your 'cocaine kit' into seperate articles, and you're good to go. Similar situation here. Back before GHB was a big problem [we're talking late 90s here], production kits were sold as 'keyboard cleaner'.

Sex shops are a dodgy, dodgy area, full stop. Police know this, but have, for whatever reason one wishes to infer, turned a blind eye - Victoria hasn't had a vice squad in quite some time [disbanded over 10 years back if I recall], and despite the commercial sale of X rated DVDs, which are only legally available for sale under licence in the Territories, in CBD stores, nothing gets done. Astonishing stuff, indeed.

Get stopped in the street with a bottle of amyl? Several things before 'drugs' will go through the copper's mind, I'm sure - depends on prior form, time, location, reason for search, reason you have for having it, et fuckin cetera.

 

[fortehlulz]

Ok here's a question:
If a person was to hypothetically try to take a tab or two into an event are they best off just putting it into a bag and in the dacks?
A package as small as that wouldnt have a high chance of being found esp in the underwear area which can't be searched yeah?
may or may not be within the discussion of this thread though

LOL. Try it and get back to the board if you dare. I know the answer, and if you try this, so will everyone else

Strip search was a rather self explanatory term when last I checked. The tents at music festivals aren't set up for smoke lodges, I can assure you.

 

[claire22]

if you're caught with a crackpipe - distributing or possession - you'll get a fine.
doesn't matter if you brand it a 'glass pipe' , it's still a crackpipe...

 

[fortehlulz]

if you're caught with a crackpipe - distributing or possession - you'll get a fine.
doesn't matter if you brand it a 'glass pipe' , it's still a crackpipe...

Distribute, yes. Possess, no. Consumer Affairs prohibitions by their very nature can only limit commercial distribution of a product. Possess is not an issue - assuming it is pristine clean, of course...

 

[BigTrancer]

Great thread, lots of interesting stuff. Thanks for the time and effort fortehlulz.
BT

 

[fortehlulz]

However, when the dog came near me, I sort of stumbled away accidentally in surprise. Could have been a contributing factor?

Answered your own question. The only people who stumble away from PAD dogs are people who are shitting themselves on sight of said dog - sounds like you were just very, very unlucky. As you had nothing, you were safe of course.

Remember, the dog 'indicating' is much like the 'strong odour of cannabis emanating from the vehicle' - not something which can be disproved later, however considering that you stumbled, and therefore, presumably shit yourself because of the presence of a drug dog, probably would have ended up in the report had you had anything

Never carry anything in your wallet? Shook hands with anyone who'd been getting their snuff bullet ready for the day? Some scents are surprisingly 'sticky'.