How to convice my girlfriend that there is nothing wrong with psychedelics

[Samadhi]

where did you get the idea that she wasn't against alcohol? It's not even mentioned in the orginal post?

I actually agree with what you've said, but it's a tad presumptious to direct that at the OP's girlfriend.

I've recently witnessed a guy going off about "ecstacy" and "speed" while being tanked out of his mind on rum. Quite the hypocricy really.

 

[lurkerguy]

Well he said that his girl is against "drugs in general", and when most people say drugs in today's society, that of course doesn't include alcohol.

He didn't say that she had a problem with him having a few beers, he just said she was against drugs, so I figured he meant illegal drugs.

I agree nothing gets me more upset when drunks bitch about "druggies".

The other day I was at a party, two girls start getting on me because I am smoking a joint, saying how awful it smells, that shit is going to make me stupid, I am a burn out etc.

The whole time they are pissed drunk, can barely articulate a coherent sentence, and continue to swig vodka even though they are clearly to drunk to stand all most.

They are saying I am doing damage to my brain, when they are literally taking years off their life by binge drinking every day nearly.

I tried to tell this to them, they just laughed and looked at me like I had two heads.

They probably wondered how this pot head junkie scum had the nerve to bitch at them for getting good and drunk.

 

[Samadhi]

My husband was in a similar situation a few years ago at a cocktail party we attended... we were all 3 sheets to the wind and he goes out for a toke on a joint. A girl was in there and started railing on him for using pot, for similar reasons to the ones you mentioned. He kinda blitzed her, though, she was too drunk to retort.

 

[lurkerguy]

They tried to make a come back on me, but mostly they just laughed.

One of them actually said "well at at least I'm not a retarded pot head" or "at least I won't be retarded for life" or something to that effect.

I was just like "Actually your totally retarded from what I can see, you can't even talk right."

Then I just kind of mocked how they slurred like "dwell utlost I aint no returd perthod!".

And they just kind of looked at each other and giggled like I was a weirdo.

The ironic thing is they probably got gang banged like 18 times in the last year while they where passed out drunk.

I was going to tell them that, but thought better of it.

 

[burn out]

She chooses not to take certain drugs, while having no problem with the most dangerous drug in the world, alcohol, just because it is legal.

That is a symptom of brain washing, gullibility, passive support and belief in the drug war etc.

To each their own, I agree with that, she can make her own decisions, but I see at as bigger issue than most people I guess.

If she didn't drink alcohol or take any drugs, that I can respect, although not relate to.

But people who drink alcohol, and have something against other less harmful drugs, those people I view as retarded.

She obviously doesn't consider alcohol a drug, and she obviously considers alcohol less harmful than illegal drugs.

That point of view is irrational, factually inaccurate, and a sign of someone who believes whatever they are told by the government and mainstream society.

That I could never respect in a partner.

Anyone who thinks that alcohol is safer, and less harmful than, Cannabis, Mushrooms etc is on a whole different level, a whole different philosophy and thought pattern than someone who sees the situation for what it really is.

I would feel like I was fucking Bill O'Reilly if my girlfriend held those views.

It is the absolute height of hypocrisy, it is like when MTV glorifies and encourages bing drinking, but condemns Cannabis or any other illegal drug.

A drug user dating a prohibitionist is like an atheist dating a Catholic.

I just don't see how it could work.

if she was an alcoholic, getting drunk all the time you would have a point. but someone who consumes a few beers or a glass of wine once in a while can still be fully rational and yet against the use of cannabis and psychedelics. why? because alcohol doesn't produce radical shifts in perception like psychedelics do. if i choose to drink a beer, i know that when the beer wears of i will still be the same person with the same worldview. however, if i choose to take mushrooms, i have no idea how the trip will affect how i see myself and the world. its a totally different thing and not really comparable. just because mushrooms and alcohol are both "drugs" doesnt mean theyre at all the same.

 

[burn out]

Well he said that his girl is against "drugs in general", and when most people say drugs in today's society, that of course doesn't include alcohol.

He didn't say that she had a problem with him having a few beers, he just said she was against drugs, so I figured he meant illegal drugs.

I agree nothing gets me more upset when drunks bitch about "druggies".

The other day I was at a party, two girls start getting on me because I am smoking a joint, saying how awful it smells, that shit is going to make me stupid, I am a burn out etc.

The whole time they are pissed drunk, can barely articulate a coherent sentence, and continue to swig vodka even though they are clearly to drunk to stand all most.

They are saying I am doing damage to my brain, when they are literally taking years off their life by binge drinking every day nearly.

I tried to tell this to them, they just laughed and looked at me like I had two heads.

They probably wondered how this pot head junkie scum had the nerve to bitch at them for getting good and drunk.

first of all, did you know these people? how do you know they were binge drinkig every day? secondly, as long as they slow down when they get a bit older they wont take any years off their life. i got drunk nearly every day last semester. now i dont anymore. i dont think its taken any years off my life.

 

[*=Regulator=*]

Just for the record, I have had open-eye hallucinations from pot alone. It's only happened to me once but it definately did happen. I can't really remember exactly what I saw but amongst other things, I saw a clown and a police car that were definately not there (was actually pretty funny when I saw the cop car because it happened in a park on a Friday night with about 50 16 year olds smoking and drinking. I yelled out "cops" and everyone bolted halfway into the city before someone realised I was seeing things).

 

[college_dropout]

If I drink 4 or 5 redbulls, I sometimes feel a little whacked out, with crazy thoughts shooting through my brain at a mile a minute.

I could see how very strong speed might whack someone out for a couple of days, especially combined with sleep deprivation.

Sleep deprivation is the ONLY thing that has ever given me actual hallucinations, and even then it was just something out of the corner of my eye I thought was a bug or something, not sustained hallucinations that lasted for minutes.

I would love to have some of those, that would be something else.

Samadhi, if you really get those, I am jealous.

Maybe it is different for everyone.

That being said, I don't know a single person in real life who ever told me they all out hallucinate from Cannabis, and I have been involved in some ungodly herb session with huge amount of smoke.

Once I was up for a night having done one gram of powdered meth. The next afternoon I was lying in my bed trying to sleep. I saw spiders (I knew they weren't real) crawl across the roof of my bedroom and fly across the room toward me. And I hardly ever use meth - like once every 2 months.

The visuals you get from meth/sleep deprivation can be pretty fucking scary. Especially considering spiders are my worst fear.

 

[Doppelganger]

Lurkerguy: I hope people here ignore most of what you're saying, because you're obviously someone who will go to any extent to defend your beloved drugs, at the cost of dismissing people's experiences.

Plenty of people have psychotic episodes, and other negative effects after taking psychedelics. Not all of these people are schizophrenics or manic depressives... there's what they call 'brief psychotic episode' and 'substance induced psychotic episodes,' plus various other disorders such as 'post traumatic stress disorder'.. all things which psychedelics can bring on.

So in assuming everyone who ends up in a mental hell-hole is already fucked up is complete tripe... and only shows your ignorance on the topic.

 

[lurkerguy]

if she was an alcoholic, getting drunk all the time you would have a point. but someone who consumes a few beers or a glass of wine once in a while can still be fully rational and yet against the use of cannabis and psychedelics. why? because alcohol doesn't produce radical shifts in perception like psychedelics do. if i choose to drink a beer, i know that when the beer wears of i will still be the same person with the same worldview. however, if i choose to take mushrooms, i have no idea how the trip will affect how i see myself and the world. its a totally different thing and not really comparable. just because mushrooms and alcohol are both "drugs" doesnt mean theyre at all the same.

Consuming a few beers is not only similar to smoking Cannabis, it is worse.

Also, alcohol produces the most radical shift in behavior I have ever witnessed in any drug.

When mushrooms wear off, I feel the same as I did before I took them.

When alcohol wears off, I gradually feel the same, but I also feel sick, a bit ill, and stupid.

Alcohol causes permanent brain damage, mushrooms don't.

Hundreds of thousands of people in Holland take mushrooms all the time, they buy it legal right from stores.

Where are the thousands of cases of long term mushroom psychosis in the Netherlands?

Of right, there aren't any.

 

[lurkerguy]

Lurkerguy: I hope people here ignore most of what you're saying, because you're obviously someone who will go to any extent to defend your beloved drugs, at the cost of dismissing people's experiences.

Plenty of people have psychotic episodes, and other negative effects after taking psychedelics. Not all of these people are schizophrenics or manic depressives... there's what they call 'brief psychotic episode' and 'substance induced psychotic episodes,' plus various other disorders such as 'post traumatic stress disorder'.. all things which psychedelics can bring on.

So in assuming everyone who ends up in a mental hell-hole is already fucked up is complete tripe... and only shows your ignorance on the topic.

Taking mushrooms is by it's very nature a temporary psychotic episode.

I never denied that taking some mushrooms will make you a bit loopy for a few hours, that is the whole point.

However if you are still having problems months later, that is your own problems, not mushrooms, because the effects of the mushrooms are long gone.

Also, if your going to have post traumatic stress disorder from taking mushrooms, that is a joke to me.

I would hate to see what happens when you have real problems.

I have been to jail, I have broken bones, cut my flesh open, slept on park benches.

If you can't get over a bad trip, you are weak as hell.

What is going to happen when your puppy gets hit by a car?

6 weeks in the mental hospital?

Sad.

 

[lurkerguy]

And to the dude who said that drinking a few beers is fine, but smoking any amount of Cannabis has a major long term effect, not only are you flat out wrong, but that is the exact same propaganda the Drug Czar of my country uses.

I mean literally word for word, line for line, the exact same fucking propaganda.

I wonder if you actually copied and pasted it from http://www.freevibe.com

Why don't you just go join the DEA and get it over with?

What does "changing your perspective" even mean?

Anything can change your perspective.

Standing up on a chair and looking at things from a higher level can change your perspective.

Totally meaningless terminology. beer.


At least you admit you think alcohol is safer than Cannabis.

Even though alcohol is involved in 60% of murders, even though alcohol causes permanent brain and liver damage, even though alcohol kills millions of people from DUIs, you think Cannabis is worse because it "changes your perspective"?

That is your argument?

How about when you drink beers, many people get belligerent, obnoxious, start doing stupid shit.

If you don't have a tolerance, or have an empty stomach, it can only take a few beers to get you into a drunken state.

I have witnessed people go totally fucking whacko, and I mean really whacko, like running around with a knife threatening to kill police officers whacko, when they are drunk.

I would rather hang around people who smoke herb all day, than people who drink alcohol all day.

Alcohol is the most dangerous and deadly drug in existence.

To be honest, I question whether or not you even smoke Cannabis, you have such distorted views of it's magical powers to make people go permanently insane.

if i choose to drink a beer, i know that when the beer wears of i will still be the same person with the same worldview. however, if i choose to take mushrooms, i have no idea how the trip will affect how i see myself and the world. its a totally different thing and not really comparable. just because mushrooms and alcohol are both "drugs" doesnt mean theyre at all the same.

When you drink beers, and the high goes away, after that you are never the same.

You have done permanent damage to your brain and organs.

You have also depleted Serotonin in your brain that can lead to depression.

It is a scientific fact.

When you smoke cannabis or eat mushrooms, and the high goes away, you are exactly the same, no permanent damage is done, except for to your lungs, in the case of Cannabis, and none at all if you eat Cannabis.

You argument is the exact opposite of the truth.

It is anti-truth.

 

[Strawberry_lovemuffin]

Hmm, methinks this thread has gone a wee bit off track.



But it's an interesting argument going on and everyone seems to be acting their age not their shoe size so I'm gonna leave it (for now)

I would still like to hear the original poster respond to the original dilemma, however!!! Hellooooo?

 

[lurkerguy]

I think his girlfriend made him stop going to druggie sites.

 

[Doppelganger]

Taking mushrooms is by it's very nature a temporary psychotic episode.

I never denied that taking some mushrooms will make you a bit loopy for a few hours, that is the whole point.

However if you are still having problems months later, that is your own problems, not mushrooms, because the effects of the mushrooms are long gone.

Also, if your going to have post traumatic stress disorder from taking mushrooms, that is a joke to me.

I would hate to see what happens when you have real problems.

I have been to jail, I have broken bones, cut my flesh open, slept on park benches.

If you can't get over a bad trip, you are weak as hell.

What is going to happen when your puppy gets hit by a car?

6 weeks in the mental hospital?

Sad.

Well I made my post with acid in mind, not mushrooms... but whatever, I did say psychedelics.

Anyhow, regarding my own experience with acid... throughout my bad trip, I thought I was burning from the inside out. I could actually see my myself smoking, and I could hear a crackling sound, like what you'd hear when you throw paper into a fire. The odour I could smell coming off myself was horrendous - I could smell death on myself. No amount of showers would shake this smell.

The trees looked dead, the city stunk of petrol... it was a nightmare!

Even though this was all imagined, and believe me I kept telling myself at the time I was just hallucinating, the fact I saw it all happen regardless, counts 100% to me as a pretty fucking traumatic experience. One does not just recover from seeing themselves burning like that... because even though you keep telling yourself it's all in your head, there's still a big part of you that's saying 'oh shit... I am going to die.'

Got through that, slept, and returned to a level of mental health where I could function...

Great. But then I started having hypnogogic hallucinations when falling asleep at night [see previous post,] probably because the acid made me more sensitive to my dream-like state. These, despite happing to sane people, are fucking scary... and not what you need when you're trying to recover from a bad trip. It seems like unwelcome spirits are invading your brain!

So yeah... a week later, still creeped by this experience - I had a flashback/ psychotic breakdown. I was completely delusional that night, and throughout the morning of the next day.

After this occurred, I really started thinking I'd fucked myself permanently. And this idea, caused me to begin having panic attacks. I felt completely isolated...

So really, it was a series of events, NONE of which would've happened if I hadn't taken acid. I don't think I was weak throughout any stage of this, in a lot of ways I was strong... I did the right thing by myself and quit all drugs up to this day [although I have an occasional pill every 3-6 months, and I binge drink every 1-2 weeks.] I got through it without any medication, just my own sheer willpower that I was going to get better...

It would've been quite easy to get a script of valium or the likes written out to help me deal, but I didn't. Why? Because even in my weakest, darkest moments, I am still courageous and still believed in myself enough to make it on my own. Even though I found social occasions daunting at the time, I attended them.. I struggled internally beyond most people's comprehension AND NO-ONE EVEN NOTICED. I take this as a good thing, I think it reflects well on my personal strength.

So at your ideas you just stated.

 

[lurkerguy]

Well like I said, I hope you don't ever go to jail, or go to war, or have a near death experience.

Then you will see what PTSD is all about.

I have had some bad trips, they seems liked they lasted for years, very strange and wondrous experiences, impossible to put into words.

They are just trips though.

It is like waking up from a bad dream, it is over now, it wasn't even real.

I don't know how you can get so traumatized from a situation that isn't even real.

I can't even remember most of my trips, let alone be upset about them.

 

[Doppelganger]

^ It's got nothing to do with my not being able to handle trauma, please stop doubting my experiences in life - I find it quite insulting. I've dealt with more than my fair share of crisis' in life... and whilst I don't want to tell you about them all [this isn't a competition,] I can assure you they extend much further than the break-up of a partnership.

On the contrary, I think I deal very well with trauma, considering. I do not, however, deal well with the way ACID effects my brain. Please stop making excuses on my behalf... I'm telling you, from experience, psychedelics can be dangerous drugs even for ordinarily strong people with no lasting mental health issues.

It's a fact!

 

[Doppelganger]

...or have a near death experience.

Then you will see what PTSD is all about.

Well in my mind it was very similar to a near death experience - the fact it wasn't real doesn't mean too much, when you're experiencing the trauma of seeing yourself burning, ffs.

I didn't get PTSD anyhow. But I can see how people could.

 

[burn out]

Consuming a few beers is not only similar to smoking Cannabis, it is worse.

Also, alcohol produces the most radical shift in behavior I have ever witnessed in any drug.

When mushrooms wear off, I feel the same as I did before I took them.

When alcohol wears off, I gradually feel the same, but I also feel sick, a bit ill, and stupid.

Alcohol causes permanent brain damage, mushrooms don't.

Hundreds of thousands of people in Holland take mushrooms all the time, they buy it legal right from stores.

Where are the thousands of cases of long term mushroom psychosis in the Netherlands?

Of right, there aren't any.

you're making the huge mistake of assuming your experience applies to everyone. you need to learn that different people react very differently to different drugs. and if you want cases of psychedelic induced psychosis, search pubmed, blackwell synegy, etc. there's plenty of info.

and for the record ive seen psychedelics produce far more radical shifts in behavior than alcohol.

 

[Doppelganger]

from erowid...

Reactions that are prolonged (days to months) and/or require hospitalization
are often referred to as "LSD psychosis," and include a heterogenous
population and group of symptoms. Although there are no hard and
fast rules, some trends have been noted in these patients. There is a
tendency for people with poorer premorbid adjusment, a history of
psychiatric illness and/or treatment, a greater number of exposure to
psychedelic drugs (and correlatively, a great average total
cumulative dosage taken over time), drug-taking in an unsupervised
setting, a history of polydrug abuse, and self-therapeutic and/or
peer-pressure-submission motive for drug use, to suffer these consequences.

In spite of the impressive degree of prior problems noted in many of these
patients, there are occasional reports of severe and prolonged reactions
occuring in basically well adjusted individuals. In the same vein,
there are many instance of faily poorly adapted individuals who suffer
_no_ ill effects from repeated psychedelic drug use. In fact, it has been
hypothesized that some schizophrenics do not suffer adverse reactions
because of their familiarity with such acute altered states.

Now obviously my case was a cruise down easy street compared to months of full blown psychosis, but it just goes to show it can happen to otherwise well adjusted people...